Fiddlesticks, the champion that doesn't work anywhere

chide da jungler··101 votes·22,057 views

Now that he has a miserable 48% winrate in the jungle, the former king-of-jungling is officially without a home anywhere on the rift. You can't run this guy in most lanes, vision is proliferating all over the place, the high cost of mage items now... it's just struggle to try and play this champion.

RIP fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks item 3070

272 Comments

YumaS2Astral61 votes

He needs a Sion level rework to be honest.

Not only his kit has problems - he lacks waveclear, he is outclassed as a support, has a lot of difficulty on the jungle, is unviable mid lane (because all mid champions can just outpush him and burst him down) and top lane (because bruisers can just build magic resistance and kill him easily, also he is vulnerable to ganks) apart from all the problems you mentioned - But there is also his visuals. They are horrible. His particles are outdated, his icons weren't even updated, and his entire VO combined has less quotes than many of the new champion's attacking quotes.

A Sion level rework would be the best to solve all of those problems, and finally make Fiddlesticks a good champion to use, once again. Even if he isn't really toxic to the game like Sion actually was (and Poppy).

Rolldembones9 votes

Yeah I disagree with most of your points. He doesn't struggle in the new jungle clearing, his VO is great, while his waveclear is bad its part of balancing his point and click fear.

What is hurting him in the jungle is the runeglaive power spike. Do you buy runeglaive, giving you a poor power spike, or go for hourglass, delaying you powerspike?

YumaS2Astral29 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I disagree with most of your points. He doesn't struggle in the new jungle clearing, his VO is great, while his waveclear is bad its part of balancing his point and click fear.

What is hurting him in the jungle is the runeglaive power spike. Do you buy runeglaive, giving you a poor power spike, or go for hourglass, delaying you powerspike?

I don't find him to have a good VO.

Look at his attacking quotes:

"To our end" "Indeed" "The end is near!" "Yes, my master." "Are you afraid?" "Fear me." "I feel your fear"

Fiddlesticks use those same quotes for both attacking and moving, Those quotes are also extremely generic and don't have a lot to do with his theme of being a demon scarecrow. Compare them to Tahm Kench's quotes. Not only he has much more quotes, but he also has much less generic quotes which refer his theme of being a demonic fish that has a hungry that he can't satisfy because it's an endless hungry.

In addition, Fiddlesticks has only one joke. Only one taunt. And he doesn't have any champion specific quotes. He also uses his own laugh for his ultimate instead of using different quotes like all recent champions.

One of the things that his possible future rework should do is to estabilish a theme for Fiddlesticks - what is him? He looks like a demonic scarecrow. But he lost most of his identity since the removal of the "League of Legends". After establishing a theme, Riot should work on making a new VO for him, with many quotes that have references to this theme - in addition to making a lot more jokes and taunts, including champion specific ones.

They also should make new particles and new ability icons for him.

Ryzing2Diamond3 votes

Just so long as they release a traditional skin with the old VO. I'd hate to lose it.

A Miss Fortune8 votes

Would be interesting to see Fiddlesticks as a champion who's kit revolves around fears. Pretty unique and fit his spooky theme.

Knoyle7 votes

I'm going to have to agree. I tried committing to Fiddles as my Jung but soon realized that he just doesn't cut it almost anything. While yes he can sustain in jungle well, he lacks anything that actually makes for good ganks besides his ult which isn't as overwhelming as you would hope for the set up it's given. To top that off his support game seems to be so lacking that even a non support character like Veigar, Rammus or even fricking Garen do a better job at it than him.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to have to agree. I tried committing to Fiddles as my Jung but soon realized that he just doesn't cut it almost anything. While yes he can sustain in jungle well, he lacks anything that actually makes for good ganks besides his ult which isn't as overwhelming as you would hope for the set up it's given. To top that off his support game seems to be so lacking that even a non support character like Veigar, Rammus or even fricking Garen do a better job at it than him.

The problem with Fiddlesticks is that he doesn't offer anything that other supports doesn't already offer, making him outclassed.

Compare him to Lulu for example. Both of them have a targeted, reliable CC. They also have damage and poke. The thing is, Lulu has much better overall utility. She has a Nasus ult that can be used on any ally, a shield that can also be used to reveal invisible enemies, a slow, a movement speed buff..

There is also Bard - while his CC is less reliable, he also offers poke, and also has heal and an ability that can allow alies to escape and move between walls.

Fiddlesticks doesn't offer anything of that, apart from his flee, all he really has is damage, and his silence (which is not very useful against the enemy ADC which will just keep auto-attacking) - Fiddlesticks needs damage to be useful, but as a support you can't get a lot of gold to build damage items. Also, even as a support, he will still need Zhonya, and since Zhonya is way more expensive now, you simply cannot afford to get it.

So the only real reason to play Fiddlesticks instead of other similar supports is for fun, or if you don't really know how to play any other support. The first reason is not a good reason to use on ranked, where you need to pick something that offers the best chance possible to win.


Combine that with his problems on the jungle - and the fact that he can't go mid since he lacks the waveclear and survivability needed to be a good mid pick - and you start to realize that Fiddlesticks is currently out of place on LoL. I think that this more than justify a rework.

RiotRiotRepertoir52 votes

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

Nekusen5 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

probably helping him with his mobility

Ult- less cooldown, less damage, less inital casting time, perhaps a slightly longer duration

Fear- making the target not move outside the range of his Drain (limiting its movement to that range)

Passive: could additionally give Fiddlesticks a movement speed buff while he has a debuffed target, or at least a movement speed buff while moving towards a debuffed target or a target he recently attacked.

in addition his MR and Armor could be tweaked.

Auroramancer35 votes

Some things I think would be easy thematic wins for Fiddlesticks: -An AoE nightmare for the enemy team -Playing up the dread factor of "where is he" or "where could he be"?

On the idea of the dread factor: An idea that another player had, that I talked with them about, was giving Fiddlesticks a unique warding trinket, where he can place a scarecrow that looks just like him. The idea with this is to mimic the dread factor that existed when Doom Bot Fiddlesticks was around.

The scarecrow functionality would be like a mandrake ward. And if Fiddlesticks stood still for maybe 1 or 2 seconds, he would assume the position of the scarecrow, and when he moves out of that position, he briefly terrifies enemy units/champions around him.

If he is in "scarecrow position", then his ultimate's channel would not be visible to the enemy team. This adds an element of paranoia whenever the enemy is wandering through the jungle (or in lanes) and sees a scarecrow perched somewhere. Is it the real Fiddlesticks, or just one of his mandrake wards?

On the idea of AoE influence: Looking at his Dark Wind, a way to extend his AoE influence and wave clear could be the following: Rather than a single crow projectile that bounces, what about Fiddle releasing a single crow at every target in a radius around him. They don't bounce, they are missiles (to give the enemy a chance to react), and the silence duration is split evenly between the amount of champions targeted on cast (if it's a 1.2 second silence duration, then a single champion hit will receive 1.2 seconds of silence, or if two champions are hit, then they will receive 0.6 seconds of silence each).

If the way to go is not touching his wave clear, then maybe look at his Terrify for making his AoE influence better: Perhaps make Fiddle's Fear a multi-target ability in a radius around him, where the fear duration is evenly split between the amount of enemy champions targeted. Minions or monster around him should receive the full duration of the fear.

Are these the kinds of suggestions you are looking for?

ClatoVerataNicto7 votes

I love the scarecrow idea. I want this.

Splitting the silence seems good in theory, but I think it would make it VERY hard to balance. Either too much silence for one champ or such a negligible amount for all of them.

As for splitting the fear, I like the thought of making it a skill shot. However making it less powerful when hitting more people goes against a theme for me. If I saw 3 other of my friends also get terrified, I'd probably be more scared, not less.

Goosetard4 votes

hire this guy

Flying Buntcake2 votes

The scarecrow idea is the single most BRILLIANT idea I have ever heard of. [slayer-jinx-wink]

YumaS2Astral2 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

My suggestions are:

Base stats: Give to Fiddlesticks a better base AD. This allows him to last hit better and even to clear the jungle better when his W is on cooldown during the early game.

Passive: Give him a new passive, please. 10 flat magic reduction is helpful early game, but falls off hard once your opponent build magic resistance items, and almost everyone in the late game will have at least one magic resistance item (even ADCs, they will usually have item 3139 or item 3102) - A single item 3190 is enough to completely negate this passive. In addition, this passive is hard to notice (invisible power) and is a form of free stats, and you know that champions with free stats tend to be toxic.

I honestly don't have a idea for a new passive, but I know that his current passive needs to go.

Q: Change it back to an actual fear. You changed that to a flee some time ago to make it "less toxic" but the problem is that being a flee contradicts with his W - You don't want enemies running away from your W, but his Q makes them run away.

W: I think it is fine as it is.

E: Remove that "prioritizing targets not yet hit" please. It just makes poking for Fiddlesticks way harder, making him less viable at laning and support.

Ult: It is fine as it is.

Disulfiram20 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't have a idea for a new passive, but I know that his current passive needs to go.

"Where in the map is Fiddle? Passive - Fiddlestick's champion icon does not appear on the enemy team's minimap"

This shouldn't help at all when fighting, but should add an actual fear factor to the enemy team, since he could be anywhere your screen is not directly upon.

Sire Hippington30 votes

The main issue is that he seems to synerigeses poorly with runegliave, but has no other options.

increase his AA range and base ad/as to synergies better with runeglaive, maybe add some form off AA interaction to his kit. He has(had?) a visual bug that let his hands glow green after canceling his W - maybe give him aditional magic aoe-damage on his next AA after draining health for atleast 2sec? Just a small amound that maybe doubles vs monsters and minions to help his jungle/waveclear a bit.

The few times i saw him in lane, he actually did pretty well. With a bit more waveclear it might already be enough. If not, his biggest wakness would probably be ganks, as he's imobile and his hard-cc has short range and is only singletarget. Maybe giving him a speedboost around feared enemies might help here.

Somehting that cetainly would help him a lot would be increased base ms or reduce his absurd manacosts, but that would make the play against case even more horrible than it already is. I think on the long run, he needs a bigger rework, simply cause he's one of the most obnoxious champs to play against once he's doing well.

ChaosThief19 votes

Why not make his dark wind an AA modifier? It makes sense based on the animation.

RottedApples3 votes

I mean i never really think of fiddles as an auto attacker but this would make sense for him. if he throws a crow instead of a scythy bit.

Kuroi861 votes

item 3124 item 3115 item 3100 item 3091 item 3151 item 3116 ????????

Nekusen7 votes

{quoted}

item 3124 item 3115 item 3100 item 3091 item 3151 item 3116 ????????

... please tell me that's not how you build your Fiddlesticks

Kuroi869 votes

Oh lord no. Just the idea of turning Dark Wind into an AA modifier...

Typical build on Fid, if jungle. item 1402 item 3157 item 3151 item 3001 item 3116 item 3020
Runglaive is meh on him, but you can make some use of it.

The Soulforged4 votes

Why not make another ap jungle item? Anyone?

Wyrmblade19 votes

His fear always making people run away is at direct odds with his life drain. I think making it so the tether can't break on feared targets might make him feel a little less clunky.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Love the idea. I love a specific result of it even more. . .

MasterYi

Xonra6 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

Fiddle not only needs a lot of work, but quite frankly Riot's item changes made a champ that was holding on because of good jungle items was destroyed by completely removing the one he had in favor of one that he couldn't use 50% of (Fiddle doesn't auto attack hardly ever, sorry).

  • He needs better itemization to be able to jungle again, and it is clear that isn't going to happen, so not sure what to suggest here.

  • His kit has terrible wave clear, and given how squishy he is and how long it takes him to "power up" his ult is a bit of a death sentence minus having to wait for ult cooldown AND Zhonya's cooldown to use it without being insta-killed in any fight.

  • He is item dependant like a Marksman while not scaling well like a mage, but has the constraints of needing mana regen and cdr like a mage. Basically he has all the drawbacks of mages with the drawbacks of item dependency like AD champs, but with none of the bonuses outside of his utility. Usually this would mean you could use him like Morg was used for, as a support, except his utility isn't THAT kind of utility, and he will go OOM rather quickly trying to use it as support utility, as he is supposed to be a mage/jungler.

  • His clearing speed is terrible now (see the first mention of his lack of proper jungling item options), and giving away blue buff to your mid mean you simply can't clear the jungle fully, let alone gank, so you have to basically be put into a lose/lose lose: Tae the blue from your mid - or - full clear - or - gank. You are left with nothing but a bad option, and to be quite blunt, if you aren't an early ganking jungler right now, you might as well not be played in the jungle, and if fiddle doesn't take his own blue, he simply can't even clear to stay even in levels of laners, let alone have the mana to do anything once he ganks (fact, not opinion or assumption).


The suggestion IS a rework and "change this to a brand new spell" because you (Riot) have put him in a terrible terrible spot, and you knew full well you would, starting with removing the jungle item (I saw the patch rundown saying as much when hit was mentioned how he would be directly negatively impacted by the ap jungle item change, yet nothing was done about it, so you guys knew full well you were breaking him and did it anyways) he used to replace it with one for basically Diana and Eve (how'd that workout?). There is no fix that doesn't revolve around far over buffing his numbers like what was done with Cass, since her kit was in such a piss poor state after her rework (and then had to be nerfed because of said purposely over buffing), and that is where Fid is now. Everything around him keeps changing rather drastically, and now he is almost a detriment to a team being picked in any of the 5 roles, unless the stars align, and in nearly every case where he excels (which is a stretch to even claim he excels anywhere as of today), another champion would have been a better choice in a natural way, instead of needing said stars to align. The suggestions have been around for over a year now, so needing to ask for them is odd. The suggestions have been given, and starting by giving him back that jungle item that was deleted would be a great start (and would benefit some other ap junglers that were further pushed out over the course of 2015).

I used to love playing Fid jungle and Support, but now I feel if I play him at all, even if my team doesn't say anything, I am only hurting our chances of winning, with no benefit for taking the risk. There feels like no reason to play him, and that is frustrating. At no point should there be one, let alone multiple champions that should be in that state, just as there should be no reason (slightly off track) for there to be champs that are so far in the opposite direction, they feel like they need to be picked up when available (we all know which I'm referring to so no need to beat a dead horse).

You know full well what needs to be done, but you are simply unwilling to do it, which is frankly unacceptable, and further frustrating.

Duke Anax9 votes

I think his biggest problem is that Drain locks him up for up to five seconds, where he can do nothing else.

This is what makes him unable to use Runeglaive properly and also reduces his options otherwise.

I'd try to make it a non channeled tether like Morgana or LeBlanc have and adjust it's power accordingly.

Also reduce the effect and the cooldown on Dark Wind, so he can activate Spellblade more often.

Or maybe let him cast Other Abbilities during Drain, give each bounce of Dark Wind a manual activation and let it apply on hit effects.

Tammerlein6 votes

What if his passive was reworked so that he gradually gains bonus ap or magic pen for standing still? (it gradually decays once he starts moving)

This would play up the whole "he's a scarecrow thing", speed his clears a bit, provide a small reward for those moments where you're lying in wait for an enemy to come into range of an ult.

l Helios l2 votes

Fiddle ult has always been game-changing and is a core piece of his identity, kinda like shaco boxes or darius dunks, so you'd almost certainly have to keep that in his kit (tweaked of course but more or less still there). Maybe give him a move-speed bonus while it's active so he can keep up more easily with carries who will have several items that give move-speed like PD, RFC, Shiv, boots, etc or add an auto fear for those who take damage from the ult for like 1 second and can't be feared by ult again after the initial fear. This would keep the fear element while giving fiddle a chance to deal more damage with ult in case he messes up or can't keep up to deal reliable damage. His W is also a key part of his kit that adds sustain and uniqueness. Personally, I'd say remove the tether nature of the W, i.e. let Fiddle move around while it is on an enemy champ, removing some of the vulnerability Fiddle has while using it and making it easier to use ult on someone who isn't feared, assuming the fear is still in the kit. To add this, you'd have to lower the base damage/heal amount of the W, which could be reasonable. So have it be similar to a Swain E, a passive effect but it returns health to Fiddle over a time period with Fiddle able to move around during it. The Q...maybe weave that into the ult like mentioned above? It seems like a very simple skill that doesn't really do that much other than a hard cc for a short period. Way too stale imo. I hate saying it, but it may need a damage modifier to make the skill able to stay, otherwise it would need to be tossed and replaced. To me, the skill doesn't really add much to his kit outside of some sustainability of ult damage. New Q could be something like an AA modifier that builds stacks which cause fear for 1 second on X stack, probably like 5 stacks for something as strong as a hard cc. The E silence bounce is a pretty neat concept and can change team-fights, it would just need to be fleshed out some. Maybe add something like an AA modifier for the silence? Make it like a Darius W that can bounce with reduced damage and duration for secondary targets? Both of the E and Q suggestions synergize with Runeglaive if you wanted to maintain the AP aspect of Fiddle, and the ult suggestions help add some reliability to a game-changer.
Let me know what you think! Thanks for checking it out and gl with your work!

SonicÐeHedgedawg2 votes

Honestly? I think the problem is runeglaive right now. It's pretty damn expensive, it really doesn't provide much AP for the cost, and fiddles barely scaled with it anyway since he doesn't synergize well with a sheen passive.

Unlike AD champions who get a choice between Devourer or Warrior based on what stat benefits them more, mages who don't adequately utilize runeglaive are in pretty bad shape.

Perhaps Magus needs re-introduced as well? (On a similar note, perhaps Juggernaut does as well since I know a few champions who are tanky, but aren't HP stacking pure tanks who would much prefer tenacity and CDR over a sunfire passive and % bonus HP scaling)

Tik1155 votes

Here is the problem

Fiddle doesn't work with Runeglaive Fiddle doesn't work with ANY sheen item

So a Fiddle ether kills his jungle clear time by having to stop drain tanking to hit a jungle mob to proc runeglaive or...what? what does he build? Cinderhulk?

I mean the solution is simple....Bring. Back. Magus (or return Magus effect on Runeglaive)

"but that crowds out the jungle items" you say, well let me put it in this logic

Cinderhulk is for tanks Devourer is for Farm junglers (Your Jaxs, Shyvannas, Sometimes Vis) Warrior is for Melee Junglers who focus on ganking Runeglaive is for AA based mages

So we got something that appears to Tanks, AD champs, and AA mages, but nothing for Casters?

This is where Magus filled the gap, with it a caster mage COULD jungle because often times their spells did the tanking for them (In fiddles case) and they would be able to keep relativly sustained

I mean honestly its the most simple solution to the problem, Return Magus and Jungle fid comes back which helps the champ out

I mean, What reason is there to prevent it minus "It'll clutter the jungle items?" (You already have 3 Jungle items dedicated to AAs, both mage AND Melee AAs)

Partholonian2 votes

{quoted}

I mean, What reason is there to prevent it minus "It'll clutter the jungle items?" (You already have 3 Jungle items dedicated to AAs, both mage AND Melee AAs)

Basic attacks are... basic. Everyone has them. Everyone can use them. It's a perfect way to introduce something that anyone can take advantage of.

...Well, anyone except people with a really long channel. Somewhere in this thread there's an idea for removing the channel from W and making it work more like Karma's where it just keeps ticking on its own as long as you stay in range (up to a certain duration). That would let him use runeglaive and other spells and potentially fix a lot of problems. (In fact it would probably be so good for him he'd need nerfs to its numbers and possibly other nerfs too, but even after that, I think he could still end up in a better place than right now.)

Channeling one spell for a long time just isn't interesting gameplay. And it makes it difficult to use certain items, including one that is now core to most AP junglers.

A more radical idea would be to change the spell altogether, keeping the theme but not the channel mechanic. What if, instead of ticking over time, it interacted with the rest of his kit?

Proposed New W - Impending Doom Marks a target champion or large or epic monster for doom for X seconds. Any time Fiddlesticks damages the marked target with a spell or basic attack, he deals an extra Y magic damage and gains Z health. (Yes, this includes every tick of Crowstorm and multiple bounces of Dark Wind. Setting this up properly for massive damage separates the good Fiddlesticks from the great Fiddlesticks.)

Counterplay is still the same, get the heck away from Fiddlesticks or hard CC him (works for a different reason but it still works), but it now gives him other options and combos to make more effective use of it instead of "press this button and then stop doing things for a while". Or, you know, he could just mark a monster and hit it with Runeglaive, and then after a couple seconds E the camp and hit it with Runeglaive again, and that will probably work decently too, because monsters don't have hard CC and you can control whether they're going to run away from you by your positioning.

EtherealMage2 votes

I think his biggest issues, are the increased mobility of champions and a high reliance on DOT spells. A slow on Drain would be great, Crowstorm could really use a longer teleport range (since it's only really usable in bushes, and no-one gets too lose to them anymore or they just dash far away) and/or higher damage. Or maybe if Terrify paralyzed the target with fear, instead of making them run away, which is fun against an ulting MasterYi and good for escaping, but not so great offensively for a slow, squishy, short-ranged DOT mage who has to stand still for his main spell.

And PLEASE don't consider messing with his VO or visuals- I like him just as he is!

ModFrom The Cosmos2 votes

I've been playing since early 2010 and I used to main Fiddlesticks back in the day when he was a top pick. He was hard to play (As in your decision making really counted) and he was unique as a character.

The most frustrating aspects of Fiddlesticks is the point and click mentality. I've been pondering on how you could change his kit and turn him into the crazy unique and scary Jungler he is meant to be. (Sorry Fiddles in the Middle)

Let's start first with his Fear and his Silence. I think these are healthy for him and and not for a bunch of other champions. It makes him unique and plays into his theme of being a scary Scarecrow dude that will scare the living piss out of you and summon his crows to silence you once and for all.

The problem with these two abilities is that they lack counter play because they are point and click and let's face it, they are very impactful on how Fiddlesticks and his teammates can abuse you while you are feared and silence and basically helpless.

I think if we changed his fear into a cone style skillshot that had the potential to fear multiple targets with a slight reduction in duration would be healthy for the game. It would give enemies a chance to dodge it. Another issue with the current mechanic is that there is no visibility, he literally just looks at you and you are feared. I think if we give him a sort of "yelling" animation with like a 0.5 second delay would really make this ability powerful, balanced and feel really good.

His E can remain the same as I really like the thematic part of this ability. I think a skillshot that connects with enemies to start the bounce would be good. It's simple and it introduces counterplay.

What about his W? Call me crazy, but I think it would be pretty bad ass if Fiddlesticks was the first champion to have drain auto attacks. Instead of the miserable excuse for an auto attack he has now, I think it would be cool if somehow when he "auto'd" you it would be a connecting drain, just like his W. It would leave a lot of room for interactions between his W drain and an auto attack drain. You could do things like having two drains, or while his W is active, he can move and drain at the same time, while when his W is on cooldown, he is rooted while we is drain auto attacking.

This would be OP for obvious reasons unless we reduced the heal significantly. But we can keep a strong heal while the W is popped so it's not broken. Make the auto attack drain have similar sustain as a Warwick has on autos, but keep his W sustain strong. Also, having his Q scream animation as mentioned above break the drain would make things balanced as well and force the fiddles to choose "Do I want to fear this enemy for my team or keep healing with my drain?" You could also have the E cancel the drain as it does now.

And last but not least his ulti. I am not sure how I feel about it. I like the idea that it can be game changing and I also like the idea of how it can be canceled. Maybe we can keep it the same, but add a better charge up animation, like maybe he throws his hands in the air and a literal crowd of crows come from nowhere and start flying in a circle and when the circle makes the full rotation the ult teleports him and it would remain normal, just with better animations and particles.

Idk, just some crazy idea's I've had for this champion over the years.

Scoroct3 votes

just wanted to say i REALLY REALLY love the cone skillshot design for fear. reminds me of cass ult

VeryGreen2 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

Here are a few ideas for Fiddlesticks to be a viable pick now. Make the Ap jungle item LESS ASS for ap champions besides Diana and other lichbane users. Or make another AP jungle item that fights AP jungler that doent use that terrible ap jungle item you guys have made.

Catrah2 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

Suggestions on how to fix Fids

Casting drain on a target that is feared, drain channels twice as fast. While we're at it, lets have some fun, Any target hit a 2nd time by Dark wind is rooted in place for 1 second.

Eeyore3 votes

I know you said "brand new spells" are probably not doable and not wanting to rip-off Vel'Koz, but a stacking damage effect would probably do him a world of good (and his current innate is pants):

  • Murder of Crows: Whenever Fiddlesticks damages an enemy he applies a stack of Dread. At 3 stacks, crows swarm the target dealing 10 + (5 x level) + (15% AP) damage over 1.5 seconds. Stacks of Dread linger so long as Fiddlesticks remains visible to them and they to him. Minions and monsters with sight of Fiddlestick passively generate stacks every 2 / 1 / 0.5 seconds.
  • Drain damage per second lowered to 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+40% AP) from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+45% AP)
  • Crowstorm damage per half second lowered to 50 / 100 / 150 (+40% AP) from 62.5 / 112.5 / 182.5 (+45% AP)

The issue with a lot of the other suggestions posted for AA modifiers or to make Fiddlesticks work specifically with basic attacks is that two of his abilities are channelled. A stacking effect that works on both is a good compromise, in my opinion.

You could always make Terrify his innate, too, using a similar mechanic to Unseen Predator/Threat. Then give him a new Q.

  • Terrify: Fiddlesticks gains Terrify when the enemy team loses sight of him, causing his next ability to terrify enemies damaged.
  • Lingering Dread: Fiddlesticks harshly slows all enemies in a cone. After a brief delay, Fiddlesticks damages all enemies in the area.

Although that again runs into the risk of adding something else to compete with Drain's channel.

icantswim4 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions? Preferably in the form of what you perceive to be easy wins for the champion. Ideas like "change this to a brand new spell" is probably less doable.

What about something along the lines of, when Fiddle is above 90% health, his Drain ability does AoE to minions/monsters/(champions?) around it's target. Helps with waveclear, jungle clear, opens up a different build path in lane, and gives some counterplay.

Or perhaps the opposite, when Fiddle is below 30% health, his Drain does increased damage/AoE, and while he's above 90% health his Dark Wind does increased damage? This could lead to some interesting decisions around health management for both Fiddle, and his opponents.

The Sword Saint3 votes

If you made drain proc on hit effects somehow every x seconds (time it so that it would reliable trigger spellblade each time), then fiddle would be able to use runeglave effectively in the jungle, you'd feel good about building it, and it would improve his single target dps a bit.

Maybe change his passive from '-10 mr on spell it' to 'when fiddle damages a target with a spell, it adds a stack of 'existential crisis'. when a champion reaches x stacks of 'existential crisis' the stacks are consumed and the champion takes an on hit attack from fiddle'. This way you don't have to do anything weird in drains description, and it also helps his teamfight.

Cindikle2 votes

Oh, lets see what I can pull out of my head.

  • Make his passive stackable for each spell/attack hit by. Only the first will apply 10, extra's will apply 5. Non-kit based attacks will also stack this, including Runeglave. Each additional attack can only stack this once.
  • Reverse his ult. Make the damage instant cast, but he can recast(for a longer cooldown?) for the teleport. Would probably require some changes to duration/damage.
  • Make him not so squishy. Like have drain steal a small % of his enemies armor/MR. Nothing huge. Like 5-10%.
  • Make his mana costs less punishing or add some form of mana return to help him other lanes that are not the jungle. Like his Dark Wind returning mana for killing a minion, increasing on the number of kills(so small at first, larger later on). This would be an interesting lane setup as he'd have to setup the lane. This would also help him in the jungle.
Zerictm2 votes

Only real way to fix Fiddlesticks in my opinion is a Sion level rework. His visuals need updates his skills are outdated, and he has what is effectively no lore.

I cannot help with making lore or visuals but I do have suggestions for kit rework. Some of these changes are actionable. (all numbers are and should be considered subject to balance changes)

[New] Passive - Dread: If damaged by Fiddlesticks movement away from Fiddlesticks is slowed by 10-30% (scaling with levels) for 1 second.

[New] Q - Specter's Sweep: Fiddlesticks sweeps his scythe dealing magic damage in a small cone.

Range: 375 Cost: 20 / 26 / 32 / 28 / 44 Mana Damage: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+45% AP) Magic Damage Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6

[Changed] W - Drain: Fiddlesticks tethers himself to the target enemy and channels for up to 3 seconds. Fiddlesticks deals magic damage each second, and healing himself for a percentage of the damage done. If the target breaks the tether by moving out of range, Drain ends immediately.

Range: 450 (Cast Range) - 650 (Tether Range) Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 Mana Damage: 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 45% AP) Magic Damage Per second over 3 seconds Heal: 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90% over 6 seconds Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6

[Changed] E - Dark Wind: Fiddlesticks sends a crow to the target enemy that bounces to other nearby enemies up to 5 times, prioritizing targets not yet hit, dealing magic damage with each strike and silencing them for 1.25 seconds once. Damage increases with each bounce. When Dark Wind is used during Crowstorm, Dark Wind's bounce range is increased to the whole area of Crowstorm and missile speed is increased by 25%.

Range: 600 (Cast Range) / 450 (Bounce Range) Cost: 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 / 135 Mana Base Damage: 55 / 72 / 89 / 106 / 123 (+ 45% AP) + (+25% per Bounce) Magic Damage Cooldown: 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11

[Changed] R - Crowstorm: Fiddlesticks instantly blinks to target location. After a 0.75 telegraphed delay Fiddlesticks pops up from the ground as his crows fly around him dealing magic damage for 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. If an enemy is within 200 range of Fiddlesticks when he appears they are feared for 1 / 2 / 3 seconds.

Range: 1000 / 1500 / 2000 (Cast Range) - 450 / 500 / 550 (Crow Radius) Cost: 100 Mana Damage per second: 210 / 280 / 325 (+ 45% AP) Magic Damage Cooldown: 150 / 130 / 110

Reasons/Notes:

Passive: One of Fiddlesticks problems is people just moving away from him and poor fiddles just standing there looking a fool. This allows Fiddlesticks players that position well to eek that extra damage needed.

Q - Click fear is boring. Lets make something a little more interesting. Also Fiddlesticks has a scythe. Did you know that? Yeah he does. Now he uses it. The range may seem short considering Fiddlesticks is a ranged mage but considering how close you normally want to be for Drain/Crowstorm means you are often enough in range for the new Q, Specter's Sweep. This also increases his wave clear by that small amount needed for both lane and jungle, while not making it safer.

W - Fiddlesticks now does his damage faster meaning he has to stand still for shorter. With his new passive the tether's effective walking range is increased significantly while still allowing dashes and blinks to be burned for safety. Counter-play! As a trade though his healing is now slower and he has to get closer to offer his loving hugs. Slower healing allows for more counter play. Now you don't have to just die while Fiddlesticks gets full health. You can now burst him down, but if ignored he gets back more health.

E - This change is to allow more counter-play and increase skill displayed with this ability. Do you need to silence the enemy now? Hit them first. Do you want to deal damage? Get that birdy bouncing for big damage. Skilled players will be able to predict bounce paths while low skill players will pick targets willy-nilly. As a possible visual change Dark Wind can get bigger as it bounces and increases in damage.

Crowstorm has lots of crows flying everywhere and Dark Wind doesn't get enhanced? That's silly. With this enhancement Fiddlesticks really tells you what location is owned by him. Champions are prioritized before minions even if champion is on other side of the Crowstorm. Normal Dark Wind rules apply if it leaves Crowstorm's range. This can increase cleaver counter-play even further by Fiddlesticks and enemies. Do I step into Crowstorm to lure that Dark Wind away from my allies or just watch as it bounces between 2 allies? Correct positioning is rewarded even more by allies and enemies alike.

R - Now a lot of Fiddlesticks' fear thematic is in that people don't see Fiddlesticks coming. Fear that Fiddlesticks can suddenly appear out of no where and just murder you and... that just makes no sense to me. Fiddlesticks is a scarecrow. Scarecrows don't hide. They don't pop up out of nowhere. They are there, staring into you. Just waiting there. You know that scarecrow is there. DID IT MOVE? ...no... no it is a scarecrow, those don't move silly... Till they do. When you turn your back.

This new way of casting Crowstorm will not only increase thematic sense, but also increase the number of success cases for Fiddlesticks. Allowing to trim back some of the raw power in Crowstorm and give Fiddlesticks more power overall.

The delay acts the same way as Veigar's Event Horizon. With this delay in place and enemies knowing where Fiddlesticks appear allows more roam for enemy counter-play but also allows for power increase in other ways. One such way increased cast range. Which in turn allows for the AoE fear on Crowstorm. Placement of Crowstorm now matters. No more just ult, flash, hourglass, dead everyone. Where you choose to ult to and how enemies deal with Crowstorm makes a difference. Skilled players shine even brighter.

The decrease in crow radius prevents Fiddlesticks from being oppressive early game. But with the increased cast range and new passive the overall value of the area has increased.

Fiddlesticks is untargetable during the delay.

Visuals could be a hole appearing where Fiddlesticks will appear (ala Ocarina of Time Scarecrow style) while crows gather at the edge of Crowstorm. Also, Surprise Fiddlesticks finally gets his cake.

Overall these changes increase the overall power of Fiddlesticks but allow his enemies play around him better. As well as add more to his theme.

Now not all of these change can come right away, but some of the changes can be made like Gangplank's ult change and come early to tied over poor Fiddlesticks till other changes are ready. The changes to Drain, and Dark Wind could be made now since, most of the changes are just number changes (discounting the Dark Wind boost in ult). Dread change could be made too (guessing, since it doesn't need new visuals and the slow seems simple enough to make work).

New Q and Ult changes are kind of tied together as far as these changes go. And since new visuals and animations would be need for Q that won't happen too soon and since the crutch of the changes to Crowstorm depend on on the casting change meaning more animation changes.

Does this help?

RisenDarkKnight7 votes

Yeah that 500 gold cost increase to item 3157 really hurt him :(

JedenVojak6 votes

Have you tried playing him as a marksman?

I mean, he's got 2 spells of raw utility... this could be the era of crittlesticks.

Aziriously4 votes

48% isn't too bad tbh, but it is a shame he's been shafted so much with all the item changes. Back when DFG was being removed, mages who built it got some compensation. Shame Fiddle's missing out. Fiddlesticks

C9 Scott Free 4 votes

48% win rate isnt even that bad though...

I7A6X2v23 votes

**He is like the old Sion before his AWESOME RELAUNCH: outdated models on all skins, outdated 9 lines vo, outdated lore, outdated splash arts, outdated kit, uesless anywhere, ugly as fck... Fiddlesticks is a 2009 BETA CHAMP IN NEED OF A RELAUNCH SION-SCALE **

Shadowkirby145 votes

I think he needs more of a Gangplank -Scale Rework. He just needs a new passive, new Q, longer Drain range, and updated visuals on the model and the effects.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

Did you just say miserable 48% winrate? How is that miserable? Yeah, it's a little below average, doesn't mean its a terrible winrate.

Maligaro Spike3 votes

48% win rate isn't miserable lol

Faustavian2 votes

Fiddlesticks : 48% win rate. Khazix : 42% win rate. Who has it rough again?

More from Gameplay

More by chide da jungler