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Ardent censer "nerf" is a joke

The Deckowner··4 votes·2,721 views

Why can't we straight up nerf this bullshit item? Rito's "nerf might hit something too hard so we need to compensate it" philosophy is ridiculous.

>ATTACK SPEED25% ⇒ 20-35% (at levels 1-18) ON-HIT DAMAGE25 ⇒ 20-35 (at levels 1-18)

Lets look at the attackspeed change, so you lose 5% attackspeed at LV1, which you would never be able to buy this item. At LV6 you gain the 25% attackspeed as before the change and it is stronger after that. This is straight up a buff.

>**new ** SAME Healing or shielding an allied champion now also grants you Ardent Censer’s buff, instead of only your ally **removed **ON-HIT HEAL Ardent Censer’s buff no longer restores health

So Rito is saying that the BULLSHIT onhit healing needs to be compensated, now we have Janna shielding herself and slapping you with adc aa range, enchanter support basically poke support now bois. Imagine Rakan Xayah just shit on everyone in lane with Xayah W + item 3504 attackspeed buff on 2 people, fun and interactive gameplay!

15 Comments

Xemeron2 votes

As long as RIot keeps Ardent Censer around, they can keep claiming the problem is supports, and not their all time favorites, the ADCs.

Rins Thigh Socks3 votes

{quoted}

As long as RIot keeps Ardent Censer around, they can keep claiming the problem is supports, and not their all time favorites, the ADCs.

?

Crit gets a little cheaper, and Warlord's provides a fair bit of sustain.

Compounded with Ardent Censer being used in place of a lifesteal item on ADs, Coin gets a massive bonus to its gold generation, and Locket being good enough to run on 3/5 of your teammates. Oh, and Relic Shield starts being bought in niche situations on hypercarry ADs so that their utility support can get a Censer extremely quickly.

I'm not saying ADs aren't strong, but if somehow Trist and Kog'Maw suddenly become the top tier picks right around when utility supports become good again, it's not a coincidence, lol.

Xemeron3 votes

What was first, the hen or the egg...

Of course Utility supports shine with the Overpowered ADCs we have in this game. They are designed to buff ADCs. So they make the most broken Class in the game even stronger, which makes them the strongest supports.

Why pick a tank or poke support when you can just sit back, and make the OP broken guy even more OP. A medicore Enchanter is a safer bet than a strong tank these days, because in the end, all that matters is that your ADC is stronger than the enemy teams ADC.

Rins Thigh Socks3 votes

{quoted}

What was first, the hen or the egg...

Of course Utility supports shine with the Overpowered ADCs we have in this game. They are designed to buff ADCs. So they make the most broken Class in the game even stronger, which makes them the strongest supports.

Why pick a tank or poke support when you can just sit back, and make the OP broken guy even more OP. A medicore Enchanter is a safer bet than a strong tank these days, because in the end, all that matters is that your ADC is stronger than the enemy teams ADC.

Coin was buffed to give giant amounts of gold generation, Sona, Rakan, Lulu and Janna suddenly flourished.

You're right dude. It totally was the overpowered ADCs that were abusing the gold generation from the item and that's why Janna's winrate shot up to ~56-57%.

Xemeron1 votes

Janna, Soraka and Sona were top rank supports before the coin change...

Why does everyone act like these three were low tier supports before the coin changes?

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

Janna, Soraka and Sona were top rank supports before the coin change...

Why does everyone act like these three were low tier supports before the coin changes?

Janna had around 50~51% win rate before coin and ardent both got overbuffed into oblivion.

Support itemization as a whole is what is destroying the game balance atm.

It makes hyper carries too good, it makes tanks too good (along with bramble vest + stoneplate) and it makes supports too good, so if you dont belong into any of those 3 calsses you're playing a weak champion.

PopcornBunni1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZRUIAtrO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-09-27T23:41:03.908+0000)

?

Crit gets a little cheaper, and Warlord's provides a fair bit of sustain.

Compounded with Ardent Censer being used in place of a lifesteal item on ADs, Coin gets a massive bonus to its gold generation, and Locket being good enough to run on 3/5 of your teammates. Oh, and Relic Shield starts being bought in niche situations on hypercarry ADs so that their utility support can get a Censer extremely quickly.

I'm not saying ADs aren't strong, but if somehow Trist and Kog'Maw suddenly become the top tier picks right around when utility supports become good again, it's not a coincidence, lol.

Bloodthirster got more AD, Shiv deals more damage, item 3035 got effectively better by reducing tanks to the same amount of armor while tanks have less health from their items, item 3026 became tailor-fitted for adcs, all at the same time.

And remember before Trist and Twitch were reaming faces, adcs were building full lethality because of how broken item 3147 was (and still is), just insta gibbing as ranged assassins.

The problem is aboslutely in ADCs. Ardent could be removed entirely and the ADC would still be destroying teams in a second-and-a-half with item 3087 item 3031, followed up with just having to build their own lifesteal to become draintanks outhealing and ignoring item 3075 completely with 1.5 lifesteal items.

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

{quoted}

Bloodthirster got more AD, Shiv deals more damage, item 3035 got effectively better by reducing tanks to the same amount of armor while tanks have less health from their items, item 3026 became tailor-fitted for adcs, all at the same time.

And remember before Trist and Twitch were reaming faces, adcs were building full lethality because of how broken item 3147 was (and still is), just insta gibbing as ranged assassins.

The problem is aboslutely in ADCs. Ardent could be removed entirely and the ADC would still be destroying teams in a second-and-a-half with item 3087 item 3031, followed up with just having to build their own lifesteal to become draintanks outhealing and ignoring item 3075 completely with 1.5 lifesteal items.

Are we playing the same game? The reason we didn't have an assassin meta was because around the same time Duskblade got reworked, tank items were added and/or tweaked. These items made tanks super strong and made assassins irrelevant because of the massive amount of shielding and ADCs became good because the only champions that are particularly strong against tanks are armor shredders, especially high DPS low tankiness targets who get a lot of stats from said tanks.

ADCs are just as much picked based on who is strong as they are an indicator of their own environment, and although Twitch (as an outlier) has been running around for a few months, the entire shift to hypercarries ONLY is indicative of what happened with itemization.

I guarantee you now that there's less shielding assassins will be capable of blowing them up much more easily again.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Plus, item 3035 and its upgrades are rather underwhelming, currently. By reducing their penetration values while putting more emphasis on resistances on items, Riot effectively made higher damage non-LW builds on ADCs more desirable.

If you get equal or slightly diminished damage against the tanks from a non-LW build as you get from a build with LW, then why go for LW at all? Most ADCs would then rather have the higher damage against all targets, not just the tanks.

Śhunpo1 votes

{quoted}

As long as RIot keeps Ardent Censer around, they can keep claiming the problem is supports, and not their all time favorites, the ADCs.

Yeah, they love their ADCs, don't they.

"Man, the 31/0 Talon oneshot my squishies, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED IN THE GAME!"

"Twitch killed someone with 2 autos in under a second? Nah, that's fair."

There is clear bias there....

StatiKlinge2 votes

I'm gonna say this, it's still a broken item. When. I'm 10-1-4 Garen and my mid is a 9-2-6 oriana and we both used our full combos on kog maw takes 0 damage once Janna shields him and he insta kills us, I'd say that's broken

Wes the Mess1 votes

Xayah herself is an absolutely bullshit champion by herself, only thing worse is draven, if she didn't have an ardent support it wouldn't be as bad

KoKoboto1 votes

I think the most stupid part of Xayah is:

"Press W for 20% increase damage and more attack speed!" That's just shitty design...

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

Healing was a huge part of the Ardent's power budget. This changes, besides the new effect on yourself, are reverting the buff they gave to ardent. No body was building ardent before that buff, so compensation buff is needed in order for it to stay relevant.

Mathematically, HP draining is twice as good as flat damage, if other aspects (such as critical timing of a spell) are ignored. So 25 HP drain is mathematically similar to 50 flat damage. The end result of this change is still a net nerf, even if you are at lvl 18. Earlier levels are much weaker compared to old one without the new effect.

Rebonack1 votes

Making it heal the user makes Battlebanana Sorka a little more viable.

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