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Thoughts on if an assassin patch comes.

EcchiOtakuTM··5 votes·1,357 views

TBH I want Akali, Eve, Rengar, Shaco, and LB to take the major spots while Kat, Kass, Noc and kha are minor (Maybe more assassins can be added but I can actually see these getting changes.

Cause:

Akali- Just want to keep the passive, marking targets concept, smokescreen, and dashing concept. Would like to see the dashing more conditional since on-demand triple dashing is what got akali nerfs multiple times.

Evelyn- Just want to keep the hate spikes, applying on-hit effects through a skill concept, and stealth concept even though her stealth has gotten her gutted several times I still want her to keep maybe in a different way but keep it. I am bias for eve though cause I loved stun eve and overall don't care about her new kit.

Rengar- 3rd largest rework I want him to have bonetooth necklace removed and instead he's changed to have power of the bonetooth necklace broken up and moved to his skills every time he ranks up his ulti he can "(evolve like kha but trying to think of a phrase that signifies his bonetooth necklace)" one of his skills for an additional effect. Including his passive. Might sound cheesy or not fit but maybe "Assimilate" could be rengar's version of kha's "Evolve". Every time he assimilates a skill further it's Bonus of the current bonetooth(maybe even some new)

Shaco- This one is bias but refer to this post I made for info http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qE86N7J2-shaco I wanted to make him less of a cheese pick and make you feel more like you aren't just punishing mistakes but actually playing well. Like currently shaco feels like you're as useful as your enemy can mess up which is annoying when you want to feel like you truly played a good game vs skilled enemies. Although I do have to update it and change it around a lot.

LeBlanc I had a small roundabout idea by trying to hit her early game and move more power to her late and end game cause LB's early game is out of hand yes but she falls off harshly. My idea was make W's CD start when it ends instead of on-cast (basically a revert of the previous change where W's CD starts on cast), allow her Q to become a passthrough skillshot and move damage from W back into Q this way her early game gets hit but she can actually have more of an end game. Making her easier to fight but able to do more still. As for her E the move wanted to see it experimented if E passthroughs marked targets until it hits an unmarked target/max range

MINORS

Katarina I want to see a more hybrid scaling on her and changed to physical damage Her kit is fine but I really feel her future would be even better and fun if she was physical damage instead of magic damage.

Kassadin- I wanted him(kinda like kat) to be a hybrid scaler, I think it would be cool if they also gave him more synergy with manamune, Also want to see him become kinda like mewtwo/lucario from the super smash bros series where he can charge his Q and either press Q again to fire (double cast) or press Q then go about using his other abilities until he wants to fire Q.

Nocturne- Mostly delay fixes, I would love to see his Q projectile speed faster (at least not out runnable, dodging is fine but literally having people just walk away and never get hit..... And his MS increase is when tethered instead of on a feared unit. Lastly his ulti "mini-fears" nearby units of the target (kinda like urgot's ulti but much shorter duration)

Kha'zix- Can now evolve his passive I have no specific ideas, and although it's mostly to allow rengar to "evolve" his passive I feel kha's diversity could be increased further from having an evolvable passive.

Items:

Frozen mallet- Additionally now slows by 20% if physical damage is dealt for 1 second

26 Comments

TehNACHO3 votes

If an Assassin patch comes out, I want this addressed: Thread

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I have no issue with tanky/tank assassins. Just dislike when an assassin has reliable hard cc.

If akali/eve/fizz/kass/kat/kha/lb/nid/noc/reng/shaco/talon/zed go tankier or full tank for their builds I have no problem with it because they lack reliable hard cc and can die even if they do their job they can lose.

Fizz use to be a tank who got out of hand but now it's more of a niche build and still good to use and simple to go against but nothing insanely strong.

Now the only assassin and currently problematic is of course ekko. His issue is he has too much reliable CC especially when rito removed silences from assassins cause they didn't want assassins have no (forgot the word but it meant they couldn't just go in and you could do nothing about it) . While ekko's stun might be hard to use at first players got use to him and it's still an AoE stun field which additionally slows before it lands. Not to mention he still has a slow on his passive and Q(the Q one I'm fine with. Even if there are delays point is:

Ekko's passive already has a massive slow with a speed up, the speed up is fine but they should just remove the slow (which they WERE doing but reverted it ffs)

Q- Mighty fine as is.

W- Remove the slow (Thus if they want to keep ekko having an AoE stun while it's already hard to land it's harder to land and feels less fustrating to go against) compensation of lower delay this way players can stop saying it's as hard to land and we can actually see if it's fine or not.

E- Fine as is

R- Fine as is

Whether or not this will nerf assassin ekko an assassin shouldn't have so much reliable cc. While I don't count slow as hard CC, 2+ depending on how often I count as hard CC in lines of perma-slow. Then add that to his AoE stun field that's 2 different hard CCs ekko has.

TL;DR Tank/Off-Tank assassins are no issue regardless as long as they don't have reliable CC or multiple hard CC. And ekko needs to have 2 slows removed and turned into a bruiser (Focus more on Bases lowered ratios type).

I'm not saying I hate assassin ekko btw it's just that he isn't what an assassin should be due to his CC.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

id make ekkos shield more conditional.

only give him his shield, when he catches an enemy with his stun, but increase the shield duration. because it makes it incredibly forgiving for him to try and engage on an opponent with his slow field and fuck up.

basically if you dodge the stun, you cant turn on him and punish him for missing it, because he just walks away or fights you with a shield.

id also make his q a lot more narrow and increase its range to tune down his waveclear. like as narrow as a zed q, but more range than he has now, so he cant reliably cover his escape, and actually has to hit you with it.

removing the slow from his passive was a good idea imo. he just needs utility shaved off in places if hes gonna be an assassin.

right now he has 3 separate slows (one of them possibly a stun) and 3 mobility tools with his speed boost, his double gap closer and his ult. its just overkill.

im ok with him being mobile and bursty like that if he doesnt also have the ability to reliably cc you. its either one or the other.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Yea I forgot to add ekko to the list because he needs to be addressed.

My main issue with him is he has too much CC for an assassin along with the shield(which I forgot about).

But it's mostly nerfing not really fitting to put in the assassin patch imo cause the class patches are about buffing/reworking/power shifts of champions and their kits/items

But yea I agree with what you said, as long as ekko still gets his shield when stunning a jungle camp and also want the slow removed from W but lowered delay.

Michael Sykes2 votes

So did you read the definition of assassins?

"Assassins specialize in infiltrating enemy lines with their unrivaled mobility to quickly dispatch high-priority targets. Due to their mostly melee nature, Assassins must put them themselves into dangerous positions in order to execute their targets. Luckily, they often have defensive tricks up their sleeves that, if used cleverly, allow them to effectively avoid incoming damage."

Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

By this defintition, some of the assassins you meant to get a larger rework are in a perfect spot. Those are Zed, Ekko, Fizz and LeBlanc.

Zed is going to be fixed in 6.11, so his playstyle is less frustrating to play against.

LeBlanc is fine, since she is - unlike Zed - a mana user and goes out of mana very fast (I played her much, so I can tell you everything you wanna know about her strengths and weaknesses).

Ekko is also going to be fixed in 6.11, he is very balanced and does not feel frustrating on ap - because he is squishy.

Fizz can still be built tanky (but this is less effective than building ap according to the winrates), which should be fixed, and additionally he has a high winrate and might be a bit too strong.

So to riot assassins are a problem when they build tanky (like Evelynn, who is just to weak as a squishy assassin) or they don't have the ability of "unrivaled mobility", probably they are gonna change point and click dashes to skillshots or they just can't dodge incoming damage easy (i.e. Kha'zix, Rengar, Evelynn)

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Ekko is not in a perfect spot an assassin shouldn't have a reliable hard CC or more than 1 hard CC and ekko has 2 hard CC (I count 2+ low CD/reliable slows as perma-slow and thus hard CC)

Zed has always been fine people just overreacted due to the qss change when it didn't do anything groundbreaking for zed.

LB needs power shifted from early to late game her early is a bit too strong and her late and end game are a joke hence why I went to fix just that.

Fizz is fine both tanky and assassin builds yes he can use troll pole to dodge a move but he still can be heavily punished for using it offensively as well as loses a chunk of damage if saving it for defensive use.

No assassin is an issue when tanky/tank built only problem is, an assassin should not have access to reliable/consistent hard CC which atm only ekko has an issue of hence why I still want 2 of his slows removed and compensated buffed somewhere else (Tbh I really want his W entirely to get reworked, it's a great move/idea but if they wanted to market ekko as an assassin it should have never been added and instead given to another champ but since ekko players have already gotten use to the stunfield way too late to ask for it's removal now).

I don't hate ekko at all btw just dislike riot literally went against their concept of assassins and multiple/reliable hard CC (Not saying the stunfield is reliable but you are bound to land it when practiced and with how much you can keep an enemy slowed)

Michael Sykes2 votes

nice that you answered!

As I say, in some way each of those four assassins is fine, but I agree with you about Ekko. Actually he has become a problem when he was buffed and the pros began with building him tanky. Probably a snare instead of a stun would be better? The shield is pretty cool in my opinion. And his w in general is just a too god zoning tool for an assassin. Fizz could need some minor nerfs, but his kit is very interesting (although everyone hates his e) About LB I have to say that it is not bad that a champ is better in early game than in the late game. As there are early game assassins, we have someone like Kassadin who scales extremely well into the late game - it seems natural to me that both types of champion exist. The only problem is that lategame champions will become relevant when the game lasts long enough, while someone like LeBlanc becomes almost useless when the enemy botlane is ahead and you can't kill their adc, even if you had one or two kills during the laning phase. On the other hand I had several games with her when my botlane won or was even, I have been fed and we stomped the game in 30 minutes.

The few games I could play Zed I everytime had the feeling that I can't lose the lane because he is so strong with his almost resourceless playstyle. Hopefully the adjustments will make him a bit harder in the early game, while rewarding experienced players.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Well for zed I had minor nerf ideas that would fix his laning phase and his engaging/safety without impacting his normal playstyle. If they were to remove his passive working on winions and remove his slow he'd still work normally since the slow does nothing if you use your combo instantly and if you delay shuriken tossing they aren't still slowed anyways. His slow helps him too much when chasing someone for extra AAs and when fleeing when he already has ways to outplay. Not saying that i'm absolutely right but feels like just an additional net to help zed when he already has skilled ways to run from a fight and several ways to engage. Oh I almost forgot how removing his passive working on winions would fix him, since his passive were to no longer affect winions he couldn't deal with shoving as easily and he could have to make a choice of using his skills on the winion to secure or on you making him use shadow a bit more offensively giving the enemy laner more room to punish him.

Now for LB I do agree early game champs can be early game but in LB's case she's too good early game and too little impact at late game unless your team are gods at splitting up the enemy team around the map and even then while I like her kit feels like there could be slightly more counterplay. Not to mention I want her to have a mage-style fallback like what ahri has for late game, if that makes sense cause I do like her assassinations just needs a bit more rounding. I really think the idea would fix her in the original post.

Fizz honestly I can see issues facing troll pole if a player is trying to hold a key skill vs it. Idk though I might be for a minor nerf but I hope fizz doesn't get touched.

Lastly Ekko I just want him to be addressed xD either the amount of slows he has or his w entirely because his W in combination with how much slows he has just doesn't work. (Well it does work just that the combination should have never been on an assassin)

Michael Sykes1 votes

well, maybe only the change of his passive like you described would be enough. The slow is in some situations essential for him.

I don't like the changes you suggested for LeBlanc, because she is so fragile that a delay on her w would make her too weak in the early game. Her laning phase is not as easy as everyone thinks: I feel safer and stronger with Ahri or Vel'koz than with her. Turning her q in a skillshot would not make much sense, since assassins are supposed to have much power on point and click spells. but one skillshot per assassin should be standard. The aoe damage of the e is not necessary., she is not like Ahri primarily mage, she is an assassin, and the w with the aoe is enough. So think about the changes I would suggest as a LeBlanc main with over 250 games: Her q+w is strong, but the most opponents can stay out of it's range. To make her burst combo not as easy as it is, I would shift the majority of the q power (and qr) to the second proc. Probably the r scaling can be increased then to make her lategame better. Also her passive could have a slightly higher cooldown on early levels and scale down per level with less cooldown on lvl 18

as you hope that Fizz doesn't get touched, I don't want LeBlanc to be touched so much. And to be honest, I find laning against Fizz pretty interesting (I love skill matchups)

What would be your suggestion for a new Ekko w?

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Actually I forgot to change the LB suggestion from the delay on W cause I forgot riot awhile back changed her W so it's CD starts on cast, if they revert it so CD starts when the skill ends that's enough.

And I havn't actually given more thought in how to change ekko tbh was put faith in riot to please non-tank ekko fans(which includes jungle ekko which seems to be out of flavor recently).

Michael Sykes1 votes

hm, there is no reason to change that. The cooldown during the early game is high, with cdr it is low after midgame and her dash cooldown in the lategame is the only reason why she is being picked in competitive play. Other champions can take out squishies much safer.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

Leblanc Kassadin should get a major spot.

Katarina and Akali should be minor. their kit isnt fundamentally broken like leblancs or kassadins. kat may not even need an actual rework at all.

akali probably only to her ult mechanics, making it more conditional so she cant point and click chase anyone down to delete him.

but both kassadin and leblanc may be in need of a rework that entirely changes their playstile and goes into a thematic change of their kits, considering how poorly designed they are.

because with their current kits, neither kassadin or leblanc have ever been balanced since they exist as champions in this game. they have always either been shit tier or broken op to the point that its stupid. there was never an in between. number changes and power shifts wont cut it.

its a problem with their playstile revolving around ranged point and click assassinations, while additionally having flashes on a short cooldown in their kits.

their mobility and range pretty much removes any commitment or risk they take in their assasination attempts. so the difference between broken op and shit tier is literally just a matter of their base damage and scalings, if they reliably can pick off targets with a flash ability + q and snowball off that through the game until they can 2 shot people with minimal counterplay.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Akali's has been broken for quite a long time she's outdated and has triple point click dashes thus has been gutted several times since release due to this saying she isn't broken is folly tbh. Just like how eve is being gutted due to her stealth.

Kat and Kass aren't really major stuff that need changing tbh unless you have a major idea a simple scaling change and damage type change would do it for them hence why they were minor. Also I didn't mean to put kat in major.

LB's kit is fine just changing her Q and W so it hits her early game and gives more late game is enough but she IS in the major second O_o.

And did you read my LB at all? I already addressed her point-click assassination and her blinking. Kass' kit is fine with the range on ulti being removed and silence (which was a long time ago) just a damage and build change and he'll be back while instead of being underpowered he'll be in a balanced state.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted} LB's kit is fine just changing her Q and W so it hits her early game and gives more late game is enough but she IS in the major second O_o.

they already tried that in the past. literally nothing about leblacs o kassadins kit is fine.

and like i said. akali just needs changes to her ult mechanics which i would classify as minor. its the only ability in her kit that needs an update.

while kassadin and leblanc probably need a complete overhaul.

like everything you proposed for leblanc has already been done at some point in the past, and it didnt work. there was a delay on the reactivation of her w at one point if im not mistaken. it turned her into trash tier. they removed it, and she turned op.

maybe not a skillshot on her q, but i dont think turning it into a pass through skillshot would change anything about the problem that her assassinations dont require her to take any risk. they would jsut be slightly more unreliable.

as long as she is ranged and mobile, shell always play around jumping in range, throwing spells at you from a distance, and jumping back far out before you can react to her. this is the fundamental issue with her playstile.

kassadin has the same problem and always had.

ive ben playing this game for 6 years and have seen those 2 through so many power shifts, and number changes, and other crap. and they never got the concept of ranged, mobile assassin types like leblanc and kassadin to be balanced.

even ahri was a goddamn piece of work at times. she has been one of the most overpowered champions in the game now and then, because she plays around the same crap.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I do not remember riot ever making LB's Q a passthrough skillshot nor giving W a .2 second delay before reactivation on landing. If they did remind me cause I've never seen it happen, you might be mixing up the delay with what they did to zed.

Changing it into a passthrough skillshot would increase her Waveclear allow for more damage to more than just one unit, allow enemies more counterplay along with more late game power since she wouldn't just have single target damage but actual mage damage, I still want her E reworked though, maybe units around her initial target take damage instead of just 1 unit this would give her more AoE damage. Not saying the numbers would say the same obviously just changing how her damage works, giving it more counterplay and moving her early game into more late game.

She can jump in range and throw out spells but her point click point was an issue along with not having to stay any amount of time not to mention ever since they allowed her W's CD to start on-cast rather than on completion her deception gotten out of hand.

Kass, well you need to suggest something cause all I can see are minor touch-ups after making him a hybrid scaling physical damage dealer and he'll be in a great spot. Tell me what you'll like to see for kass.

DrathTurtle3141 votes

Evelynn

I want them to keep the stealth, punish her for staying in a fight too long, and give her higher burst.

As is, she seems to benefit too much from long engagements, being able to land multiple Q's. This is a trait I associate w/ bruisers.

Leblanc

Currently does a good job of singling out a target and blowing them to hell, which is the definition of assassin. Would like to see a higher risk associated w/ her gameplay. Maybe remove the return on distortion and allow her to reactivate a single spell w/ her ult instead of just reactivating the last spell. This would force her to chose between increased damage via ult+Q or an escape via ult+Distortion or CC via ult+chains.

Rengar

I think he's alright in his current spot, maybe some minor update to adjust to the item and meta shifts that inevitably come with a major update

Shaco (and Faco)

Obviously I'm keeping the clone. I don't play shaco, and I always fear playing against him. I'd like to see more interaction w/ the clone. Deception has always been shaco and faco's game, so maybe it doesn't matter which you attack because both are the wrong one? I'll leave this one to the people who play shaco and the guys at Riot to figure out.

Nocturne

This guy was my introduction to the world of squishies after playing zac and cho'gath in the cinderhulk meta. It was a fairly easy transition and he has great survivability. He does well with lifesteal and a hydra, and feels a little more like he's on the squishy end of the bruiser line up as opposed to being a true assassin. I would like to see some of his power shifted to burst damage and away from sustain/survivability in fights. Overall, he could do w/ a minor spot on the update roster, but would be happy to see him get a major spot.

Zed

Has too much safety. I'd recommend something similar to LeBlanc, where he has to commit to using his shadow. Maybe give him a window of .75-1.5 seconds after cast to blink, not affecting the duration of the shadow, but make him choose when he activates his shadow if he wants to trade places with it or not... Really don't know how else to change him w/o changing too much of who he is... I just like a little risk w/ my reward when it comes to assassins.

The rest of the assassin line up fits in the Minor category for me.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted} Zed

Has too much safety. I'd recommend something similar to LeBlanc, where he has to commit to using his shadow. Maybe give him a window of .75-1.5 seconds after cast to blink, not affecting the duration of the shadow, but make him choose when he activates his shadow if he wants to trade places with it or not... Really don't know how else to change him w/o changing too much of who he is... I just like a little risk w/ my reward when it comes to assassins.

The rest of the assassin line up fits in the Minor category for me.

in case of zed i would simply increase his risk by requireing him to kill his target before he can reactivate his ult.

they should add similar kill conditions to a lot of assassins to make them higher risk.

its one of the reasons i think kat is actually a better designed assassin. if she fails to kill her target for any reason, shunpo doesnt reset and she doesnt have a way back out of the fight.

while leblanc is entirely the opposite with her free return button and the extra distance between her and her opponent due to being ranged.

DrathTurtle3142 votes

I like this idea.

Michael Sykes1 votes

with this mechanic we will never see them in competitive play again.

DesolationKaizer1 votes

Kill his target before he can reactivate his..ult? Wouldn't that make his ult utterly pointless then?

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Kill his target before he can reactivate his..ult? Wouldn't that make his ult utterly pointless then?

the point of his ult is to serve as a gap closer, give him a shadow to cast his abilities from, and put the death mark on his target which serves as damage amplification for all of his damage dealt.

the escape component is only a part of the ability. restricting his escape by requiring him to kill his target before he can jump to his ult shadow would increase the commitment required to the assassination.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Eve- Hmm While hate spike has been a signature of eve I wonder what would happen if it was more "front-loaded" for an early engage of a fight but weaker for longer exchanges but it would hurt her teamfight so idk.

LB, Rengar, and shaco I addressed.

Hmm yea nocturne has somewhat been bruiser-fied over the years I could see him getting more changes than what I thought.

Zed Idk all I have are nerf ideas and I don't include nerfs in a class patch imo class patches are about buffing/reworking or changing the balance of power in champions/their items. A long time suggestion was make zed's single shuriken bad but rewarded for throwing multiple at the same unit. While I also wanted his slow removed since he doesn't need that for using his combo on you but just to gap close so he can AA you easier or to help him escape when he already has several escapes. But again I wouldn't include this in the class patch.

Arakadia1 votes

I'm not sure if Kat needs much gameplay changes. I'd rather have that toxic af fizz changed xD.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

kass needs a major rework in assassin update. anyway that won't be out for 6 months. he and eve do.

alfavhunter1 votes

Alkali rework Silent assassin -alkali becomes stealthed for .75/1/1.25/1.5 seconds after using an ability (LVL 1/6/11/16)

Q unseen blade, alkali fires a skill shot stopped by the first target hit and dealing damage, she can reactivate this ability to jump to the target to deal the damage again and restore 80/90/100/110/120% the energy cost

W Deadly dance Anjali slashes at 3 nearby enemies with her blades causing them to take damage and heal her for 1/2/3/4/5% of her missing HP per enemy hit (doubled heal on champions)

E Assassins shadow alkali sends a shadow of herself to run in a targeted direction (toward mouse cursor) for 1 second, the shadow can take damage and when it dies or exspires it explodes (think shaco clone, this works well with her new passive) (the clone gains alkali move speed, and doesn't stealth like alkali does when she uses E) (think wukong clone)

R Curved blades

Alkali enhances her abilities for 7 seconds and gains 60% movement speed for 1/1.25/1.5 seconds when she casts an ability (making her stealth stronger)

Q now restores it's CD as well when using the second Q effect (remember skill shot blocked by tanks, harder to get to the back line)

W now Has a larger AoE and clear spell effect for this (needs to be clear she is in her ult) and loses its target limit

E can be used a second time with no CD

R can be re-activated once to Trigger alkali passive and make her untargetable for the duration of the stealth (remember stealth is broken on attacking)

This gives alkali her dash power with the condition it's a blockable skill shot

Keeps her sustain aspect but in a more healthy manner

Keeps her strike stealth strike stealth mechanics (and because she constantly does this it makes E harder to predict)

Gives her a noticeable power spike at LVL 6 through more dash capability, more healing, more E mechanics, damage through spells, and more effective stealth

Oleandervine1 votes

I hope this happens to Assassins. Most of them are unhealthy. http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-08-2015/bq3mas.gif

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