You guys ready for Sona to suddenly become FOTM again?

TheLittlestLulu·May 14, 2016·18 votes·2,367 views

She's winning in esports you know what that means.

54 Comments

Slamurai JackMay 14, 201610 votes

Let's go "Sona is garbage" whiners. Tell us all how much she sucks. I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics needed for this one.

LankPantsMay 15, 20168 votes

I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics needed for this one.

It's really not that hard, is it?

Even although I'd never have thought I'd have said this pre-MSI Aphro is a considerably better player than SwordArt, Stixxay is a better ADC than NL and CLG is a better team than Flashwolves. Them pulling out Sona in those games didn't mean that much, in fact the pick hindered them greatly in the first game. If Flashwolves had played Game 3 correctly and not thrown at every corner they would have won.

If Aphro can pull this off against SKT then it's a different story. I don't think he can though and I'd assume he thinks the same thing. Bang and Wolf are on a completely different tier to NL and SwordArt. Importantly they're a better duo than Aphro and Stixxay when they're playing on point. If Aphro does attempt to pull off Sona her huge key weaknesses will be exposed and she'll be thoroughly punished by SKT.

I'd be very surprised if Aphro picks Sona into SKT, he's not stupid. He understands that the reason why Sona worked into FW is because he and Stixxay are considerably better than their botlane. I also give him enough credit to understand that he's not better than SKT's bot lane.

KoboldMay 15, 20161 votes

I have a question for you, what do you see as the key weaknesses of Sona atm for competitive? ( I really don't care about the thread topic just found your answer interesting and want your thoughts on the champion)

The reason I ask is that I feel some champions can't be reasonably "balanced" without actually determining what makes them unique and do a rework that tries to bring the champion into a position where their is decent counterplay and reasonable weaknesses for their strengths so they are picked for what they bring and not just due to a stat advantage. My thoughts is that she lacks "counterplay" to her abilities but is weak instead due to her short range and low base stats. Riot does want to keep her as the "Aura" champion but I personally feel this is not the best course of action as she lacks anything that can actually be acted against besides staying outside of her range ( her biggest weakness afaik) which is why she is in her current state.

LankPantsMay 15, 20162 votes

I have a question for you, what do you see as the key weaknesses of Sona atm for competitive? ( I really don't care about the thread topic just found your answer interesting and want your thoughts on the champion)

She's squishy and fairly immobile, those are huge weaknesses in pro-play, as well as play in general. SwordArt's biggest problem playing into Sona was repeatedly picking Karma, had he have played something like Thresh he would have 100% nullified the Sona.

she lacks anything that can actually be acted against besides staying outside of her range ( her biggest weakness afaik) which is why she is in her current state.

This is really untrue. Sona's biggest weakness is her durability and general lack of any defences what-so-ever. She's weak into anything that can threaten her in lane like a Thresh, Leona or Alistar.

KoboldMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She's squishy and fairly immobile, those are huge weaknesses in pro-play, as well as play in general. SwordArt's biggest problem playing into Sona was repeatedly picking Karma, had he have played something like Thresh he would have 100% nullified the Sona.

As the old trinity of Supports goes: Sustain>Poke>All-in/Rush>Sustain

So this would be very accurate as to the counterpicking of sona correct?

This is really untrue. Sona's biggest weakness is her durability and general lack of any defences what-so-ever. She's weak into anything that can threaten her in lane like a Thresh, Leona or Alistar.

This brings us back to the support trinity I referenced above, but its also the reason Soraka had to have her rework the first time around in that there was nothing you could do against the lane unless you were the counterpick to the lane, which in turn brings up another point in the lack of real counterplay still exists outside of counterpicking which isn't counterplay but straight up countering. Which is why most champions have ways you can stop the effects of the spells or dodge them (soraka Q change, Soraka heal requires HP not just mana so you can stop the healing by hurting her and her healing requires her to be at risk). Sona lacks most of these as she has only the ult as a skillshot and the rest of her abilities she just needs to be in range not actually dodgeable unless you are her counter or out of range, which is the reason I think she needs to be looked at for a larger update to make her feel more than just a spam bot champion.

LankPantsMay 15, 20165 votes

As the old trinity of Supports goes: Sustain>Poke>All-in/Rush>Sustain

How do you think Poke beats All In? Right now it doesn't.

Poke lanes bot are incredibly weak, there's a lot of things you can do to nullify them. You can just hard engage on them for starters, poke supports actually tend to have pretty poor disengage. This is the prime reason why engage supports have a fair advantage over poke supports. Poke supports also tend to be the weakest overall to teleports, they can't normally disengage more than one person and their ability to win in a fight is generally abysmal.

Also you seem to be assuming that Sona's a sustained based support, which is not really correct. Sona is primarily a poke based support, her heal is quite weak and generally overcosted, she can't spam it to keep her ally sustained. Sona maxes Q in almost all situations and tries to poke her enemy out of lane, which, by your own logic should make her a counter to all-in, which it doesn't.

Which is why most champions have ways you can stop the effects of the spells or dodge them. Sona lacks most of these as she has only the ult as a skillshot and the rest of her abilities she just needs to be in range not actually dodgeable unless you are her counter or out of range

I think you're confusing counterplay and outplay potential. You're right, it's hard to outplay a Sona due to her targeted abilities, it's also normally unneeded since the overall impact on her abilities outside of her ult is very low. You notice this a lot when an AP Sona gets ahead, she will start to take over the game and there's really no way for you to beat her mechanically, that's still OK though because she still has the same set of strategical weaknesses you can exploit.

Counterplay is different from outplay potential. For example the counterplay to Katarina is her insanely high weakness to CC, this counterplay still exists even if you lane Mordekaiser into her, you just can't exploit it. You team presumably can though and if they can't then you probably earned your loss at champ select.

Sona is very similar to this, she's weak to hard engage, pick and ganks. You won't always have one of these in the game, but your team should always have at least some access to them. Your jungler can always gank a Sona and that is a valid form of counterplay, even if you're a bot lanner who lacks access to it.

which is the reason I think she needs to be looked at for a larger update to make her feel more than just a spam bot champion.

I kind of agree with the conclusion you came to, although I disagree with a lot of your reasoning. I do think that Sona needs a rework, her auras just don't feel good right now. Riot needs to decide what Sona's actually meant to be. Is she an aura based support or is she a poke support? Does she excel early-mid game or late? Right now she's caught half way between all of these states and she just winds up falling flat at everything.

manbearswineMay 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pirate Rance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZPq6Vw6a,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-15T06:12:52.428+0000)

As the old trinity of Supports goes: Sustain>Poke>All-in/Rush>Sustain

So this would be very accurate as to the counterpicking of sona correct?

"Old" is the keyword here, it was nullified in s3.

Right now it's disengage=all in>>poke/sustain<disengage

Hence why tanks are all over the place.

*Small note: naturally there are some outliers, for example soraka is disengage/sustain, and as such varies in power, bard is to tank supports as thresh was to poke supports and is all in/disengage/sustain/poke(he is however a jack of all trades, "only" his roam is top tier) and as such again varies in power, karma is disengage/poke though she particularly shines in prolonged fights, so she is somewhat good in competitive right now(however solo q often doesn't follow the competitive meta, so I actually wouldn't suggest her there).

The Yetii RiderMay 15, 20161 votes

Sona's biggest weakness is her base damage/heal/move speed buff. Sona, more than any other traditional support, relies enormously on her AP ratios to give her utility. This means that not only can she not build tanky, but items like SS and Locket feel terrible on her.

Sona is probably the only AP support who should build Eye of the Watchers more than Frost Queens, just so she doesn't have an entire item slot with 0 AP.

That is her biggest weakness. Her ratios are too low for her to be a Mage and they're too high for her to be a support. There is no itemization available that fits Sona.

Pika310May 15, 20164 votes

Sona has amongst the lowest AP ratios of the entire support class. She gets almost nothing out of building generic AP items, she builds Spellblade and Echo for their artificial numbers. It just so happens that they also add AP and additional AP scalings.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

Kenioshi2 sequelMay 15, 20168 votes

Sona is trash. Bring on the haters summoner 21

EpicMusicMay 14, 20167 votes

Fotm?

TheLittlestLuluMay 14, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Fotm?

Flavor of the month.

EpicMusicMay 14, 20165 votes

That doesnt make any sense

Br4ndonMay 15, 20164 votes

It means something is popular briefly. Usually the popularity is because something that happens on the pro scene. Famous streamers and high level kroeans also influence popularity. The popularity is brief because riot nerfs it or the meta shifts it out of popularity.

Take the new Lucian build for example, last week every lucian build was reaver/shiv this week its ghostblade and cleaver. When lucian is nerfed or the meta shifts the next strongest ADC will come to light and become popular until it or its build is nerfed.

Soldier of 4JhinMay 15, 20162 votes

Ima be honest I still dont see how OP the knew lucian build is, I thinks it fun ofc and viable using only his abilities to do more damage rather than his autos

BlitzidiousMay 15, 20161 votes

new ** of course ** I'm going ** don't ** Punctuation stuff ** (. ,)

I apologize if this comes off as rude, but I just despise bad grammar.

warmcorntortillaMay 15, 20161 votes

I suggest if you 'despise' bad grammar, you focus on your own, and maybe stop capitalizing random words in your sentences.

BlitzidiousMay 15, 20161 votes

Oh, thank you for showing me my mistakes! That was definitely embarrassing, as I usually don't do that.

Soldier of 4JhinMay 15, 20163 votes

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BH3tfoeWxzI/UXh1F-cW5_I/AAAAAAAALYk/rIYv0Dfnyrk/s1600/grammar-nazi2.jpg http://www.geeksandcleats.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/grammar-police-e1421374841692.jpg

BlitzidiousMay 15, 20161 votes

I must now commit seppuku. I have disgraced my people.

YumaS2AstralMay 15, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Fotm?

item 3401 :v

RedCycloneMay 15, 20167 votes

She was a glorified stunbot those games, a position that could have been filled by many champs

And those games didn't use the same build as the usual Sona build with a heck load more AP

101100111000May 15, 20167 votes

All CLG did with her was flash ult.

Like she did before the rework.

Like they said they were hoping to stop.

Hence, I still think the rework is garbage and accomplished nothing but nerf her into an ult bot.

Edge of DaybreakMay 15, 20166 votes

The sona squadron is currently at a boot camp training for the mental Olympics.

LankPantsMay 15, 20165 votes

I'm ready for Aphro to pull her out against Wolf today and get dumpstered something like 0-5 in lane. He could do it against SwordArt because he's just a better player on a better team, you try that BS against a world class team and they'll punish you for it.

Shadow GilgameshMay 15, 20165 votes

What? Sona in competitive? HOW? I would expect pros to punish her literally any time she goes into her Q range, and that she'd get popped anytime she ran into anyone while roaming/warding unless she had ult up

The DeckownerMay 15, 20163 votes

she is a healing bot in lane, never using q at all. in teamfight basically flash ult bot.

Pika310May 15, 20167 votes

Literally the weakest healer in the entire game and the most expensive heal to boot. She's just an over-valued caster minion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

Darkslayer85May 14, 20164 votes

Y'know, if every LoL player contributed FIVE dollars, we could copy paste riot's game code, except balance it correctly, not this cheap shit we have right now. Here's where the money comes in. They try and sue us, who gives a fuck? We got tons of money to pay their grounds!

1000angrybeesMay 15, 20164 votes

Can't wait for the nerfs

'something something Sona isn't healthy something something we're lowering her damage and heals/shields'

ProfirixMay 15, 20161 votes

They won't nerf her. Riot knows shes not up to par with other supports.

Pika310May 15, 20166 votes

Rito doesn't care and they aren't willing to admit it. GypsyPeasant is planning to nerf her, Meddler said long ago that he would never allow Sona to be decent so long as he works at Rito. She's never received a single patch in the entire history of this game that was a buff. Sona is amongst Rito's most hated characters and that's not going to change.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

Krys StarMay 15, 20164 votes

I'd argue that's most enchanting supports. Janna, Soraka, Sona, and Nami have received more nerfs than they have buffs. Even now, players are scared Sona and Nami will be getting hit with nerfs soon. Riot gives minimal nerfs to tanky supports, while slapping the squishy supports outright.

I may get downvoted for this, but it's pretty clear Riot favors tanky champions by a large margin over squishy. For some unknown reason. :\

Pika310May 15, 20163 votes

It's not an argument if you're agreeing with me, then we're in consensus. I'm not scared of Sona being nerfed, she's already the weakest character in the game and GypsyPeasant and Meddler have both said they plan on nerfing her further. Since we know they'll never let Sona be a playable character, there's nothing to fear.

On the other hand, I am concerned Nami may get nerfed. As my highest winrate in ranked, I don't want to have to abandon her in favor of Bard like Rito wants us to. Likewise for Zyra, I played her plenty even before the recent buffs and they may very well be short-lived.

When was the last time a tank support had a MEANINGFUL nerf? I honestly don't remember.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

Supreme Senpai69May 15, 20168 votes

-buffs Zed in the same patch-

Athenes LuluMay 15, 20163 votes

Except that they'll keep whining because she is "not old Sona" ~~which was completely based on stat checking aka no counterplay~~ and that they want her to have hard ~~spammable~~ CC outside her ult xd

edit: the downvote sheep horde is coming, brace yourselves kappa

The DeckownerMay 15, 20162 votes

she already is one of the most popular support,even tho her kit is utterly boring and braindead. last time i checked she had 15% play rate.

ProfirixMay 15, 20162 votes

Until you realize that one of the only reasons she was picked was because of her ability to initiate fights, which was severely nerfed with the removal of the distortion boot enchantment. (But don't tell everyone else that, because they still had the boots at MSI). Still mostly a free win if you play against her right.

Tribbles FoxfolkMay 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

She's winning in esports you know what that means.

Nerf bat? Nerf bat. sighs heavily Riot, just keep her Q + R intact and rework her, please. It's obvious they can't balance her current kit worth a damn. (Sona's my highest mastery champ btw)

The Yetii RiderMay 15, 20164 votes

On the PBE gypsylord is working on a mini rework that gives Sona a much higher E speed, but her auras are even smaller (you have to be on top of someone to tag them) and her Q starts at 12 seconds CD and scales down to 6.

Supreme Senpai69May 15, 20162 votes

But her E is only good in mid/late game. I don't even take it until level 4/5. All she has for laning phase is her Q poke and her very small W sustain. If they nerf both of those in favor of more E speed everyone will just play Janna :/

edit: I dont know who is downvoting you, but lemme cancel that out for ya

MarshbouyMay 15, 20162 votes

I doubt she will be FTOM becasue she completely lacks viscerality. She might become FTOM but i've never understood why people don't play her anyway, in low elo at least shes a very strong poke and sustain support

ShadulaMay 15, 20162 votes

Jhin I'm am definitely ready, bring out the nami too

JayHog1992May 14, 20161 votes

Well, I did just unlocked Sweetheart Sona skin in hextech, even enchanted it.

besides, need to get S with more supports.

Jeddy017May 15, 20161 votes

Blitzcrank Leona Veigar Thresh Nautilus ok.

DarkRitualMay 15, 20161 votes

It's fine, my current main punishes her pretty hard. (I am a support main.)

Supreme Senpai69May 15, 20161 votes

-busts out Sweetheart Sona skin-

Zone of EndlessMay 15, 20161 votes

Remember that speed buff she's getting on her E? I doubt they will consider it now, but I bet that aura range reduction is still going through Kappa

Pika310May 15, 20161 votes

They'll probably nerf her damage while they're at it... despite being the only support in the game with a 40-base damage spell, having only 1 damage spell and being tied with Raka for weakests autos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg