I thought Teemo is supposed to be the 'SWIFT' Scout not the Sluggish Scout.

HP Crookshanks··31 votes·11,546 views

Guerilla Warfare (E) [New Active] After a 1 second delay, Teemo enters Camouflage for 3-5 seconds. Teemo is 'SLOWED' by 25/22.5/20/17.5/15% during this effect, and gains 20/30/40/50/60% Attack Speed for 3 seconds when it ends. Camouflage does not tick down while Teemo is in a brush or is standing still.

Teemo is already an immobile champion despite being the 'SWIFT' Scout. Why don't you buff his useless W instead of adding him an self slow ability? Because even a fat man Gragas , a rock Malphite and an 'immobile' adc Jhin are much more mobile than him.

43 Comments

Syrile13 votes

This Teemo rework is utter garbage. Literally took everything that made the champion what anyone thinks of as Teemo and dumpstered it. I wonder how many Teemo mains will quit League if this goes to the live patch.

Abibyama II3 votes

The less teemo mains, the better

Melledoneus1 votes

There are plenty of worse champions to main than Teemo. I'd take Teemo mains over those nowadays.

Abibyama II1 votes

Teemo will always be my number one enemy

Karn Bishop1 votes

While some of the changes are odd making him a poison debuffer makes sense, they could also remove shroom vision and only have it granted on detonation as all that free vision eats up teemo's power budget and could be spent better elsewhere.

SirLapse1 votes

Actually it's much stronger early, and it can even jungle. Problem is his late game pays a hefty price and his W is still garbage. Q is still unreliable. The E is only useful in the jungle or if the map is lit up like a fucking carnival. 40 second CD when Twitch has a superior ability....

Actually, what the hell are they even doing?

Miss Fortune W > Teemo W. Twitch Q > Teemo E. Literally any mage Q > Teemo Q.

His kit is always a dirt-covered mirror of already existing abilities. And the R is getting nerfed, which is the only thing he really had left. Don't get me wrong, the numbers are fucking busted on his passive (5 damage per level on-hit and situationally does 150% more overall). His lv7-8 is ridiculously strong. But the feel of the kit is bad and it falls off worse than Rek'Sai who already is horrendously good at falling off and losing despite 11-kill leads.

wolvius1 votes

{quoted}

Actually it's much stronger early, and it can even jungle. Problem is his late game pays a hefty price and his W is still garbage. Q is still unreliable. The E is only useful in the jungle or if the map is lit up like a fucking carnival. 40 second CD when Twitch has a superior ability....

Actually, what the hell are they even doing?

Miss Fortune W > Teemo W. Twitch Q > Teemo E. Literally any mage Q > Teemo Q.

His kit is always a dirt-covered mirror of already existing abilities. And the R is getting nerfed, which is the only thing he really had left. Don't get me wrong, the numbers are fucking busted on his passive (5 damage per level on-hit and situationally does 150% more overall). His lv7-8 is ridiculously strong. But the feel of the kit is bad and it falls off worse than Rek'Sai who already is horrendously good at falling off and losing despite 11-kill leads.

The E cool down goes down exponentially faster if your in a bush, I think vandiril showed it on a video I try and link it (mobile is awkward). It also doenst expire if you stay still which is interesting.

They should probably give extended duration for rank 3 shrooms ,the 5 charges is nice change but needs something more. Maybe a longer range attack (Q or auto) on an enemy that detonates a shroom or once-off refresh on the slow from an attack.

Edit: https://youtu.be/zULS0i3vNX0 Roughly 1.15 on video

Syrile1 votes

{quoted}

Actually it's much stronger early, and it can even jungle. Problem is his late game pays a hefty price and his W is still garbage. Q is still unreliable. The E is only useful in the jungle or if the map is lit up like a fucking carnival. 40 second CD when Twitch has a superior ability....

Actually, what the hell are they even doing?

Miss Fortune W > Teemo W. Twitch Q > Teemo E. Literally any mage Q > Teemo Q.

His kit is always a dirt-covered mirror of already existing abilities. And the R is getting nerfed, which is the only thing he really had left. Don't get me wrong, the numbers are fucking busted on his passive (5 damage per level on-hit and situationally does 150% more overall). His lv7-8 is ridiculously strong. But the feel of the kit is bad and it falls off worse than Rek'Sai who already is horrendously good at falling off and losing despite 11-kill leads.

His stats are higher, which may make him stronger. But this is a horrible rework. All of the Teemo montages and fun things of him hiding invisible will go away. He is no longer invisible but "camo" which means he can be seen in close proximity or with a control ward.

Also, that weird speed debuff on "the swift scout" just makes zero sense... -_-

Bliss Ocean11 votes

I dislike these changes immensely . Hope they dont go through with this.

Abibyama II11 votes

That rework came out of the blue

Warlord Rhinark5 votes

I thought of a change that might help him.

Move Quick

PASSIVE: Teemo gains bonus movement speed if he hasn't taken damage from enemy champions or turrets for 5 seconds.

ACTIVE: Teemo performs a combat roll, dashing a short distance forward, doubles his bonus movement speed for 3 seconds, and prevents it from being disabled by damage for the duration. Dashing into a bush immediately triggers Guerilla Warfare.

There, he gets a small dash.

That should enforce him as the Swift Scout.

Ifneth3 votes

That... that is so cool. Let me add to that.

If Teemo rolls into a wall, then he will scramble over it over 0.75 seconds.

JeaneGreene2 votes

I had no idea how bad I wanted this until now.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

That... that is so cool. Let me add to that.

If Teemo rolls into a wall, then he will scramble over it over 0.75 seconds.

I'd just have it go through walls instantly.

Dashes don't usually have delays when they are targeted over terrain, with the exception of Talon's E.

Ifneth1 votes

I’m imagining something cute. Teemo dashes into the wall, stops, does a little scrambling animation, and then hops to the other side.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

I’m imagining something cute. Teemo dashes into the wall, stops, does a little scrambling animation, and then hops to the other side.

Just seems too clunky to me.

It doesn't really enforce him as the Swift Scout, if he's the only champion in the game (with the exception of Talon) that can't dash through terrain instantly.

Ifneth1 votes

The dash is the swiftness. Terrain scaling is just a bonus feature.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

The dash is the swiftness. Terrain scaling is just a bonus feature.

"feature"?

It's not a feature, it's a restriction.

Ifneth1 votes

Not every dash scales terrain. Vayne’s Tumble, for example, stops at walls.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

Not every dash scales terrain. Vayne’s Tumble, for example, stops at walls.

And Vayne isn't known as the Swift Scout, is she?

No.

If Teemo is supposed to be swift, he shouldn't have restrictions on dashing through terrain that most other champions in the game don't have either.

Inkling Commando3 votes

i wouldn't call Jhin immobile. after critting (which is every shot late game) he takes off like a jet. but i do agree. teemo needs to live up to his name. or just change his title to lone scout.

Tahminatrix 18 votes

He put " " making fun of the fact that jhin was intended to be immobile but actually isn't.

AS I LAY FEEDING3 votes

as a guy who plays teemo a lot, not being able to "perm" stealth in lane is pretty bad to me. Its better if teemo could perm stealth in the same spot so long he is idle. Anyway cool changes. Reasons why teemo isnt "swift" is because he is a pretty nasty lane bully.

Draw My Fursona2 votes

If you read the post by Riot Jag you'd know that as long as he's in a bush or standing still his Camouflage duration doesn't tick down.

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

{quoted}

If you read the post by Riot Jag you'd know that as long as he's in a bush or standing still his Camouflage duration doesn't tick down.

But it's not invisibility anymore, it's camo. Meaning he can still be seen if people just walk into the bush, whereas before he could waste time and possibly avoid death altogether if he stood in a bush. The rework is a massive nerf, no matter how you look at it.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

we got no range on the camo afaik. so they'd need pinks to spot you if you're in bush/not moving.

Saianna3 votes

Camouflage So.. No more truly-invisible in brush

I also wonder if his poison darts retained their AP ratios

And finally if, or rather where, his shrooms got nerfed (supposedly damage is the same, but knowing rito, there has to be nerf in there, afterall they haven't wrecked this iconic ultimate enough)

Oh and does his W work with E?

Draw My Fursona1 votes

You'd find out the answer to all 3 of those questions if you read the post by Riot Jag.

The answer to all 3 of those is "Yes".

Poison retained the AP Ratio. Shrooms do 50/75/100 less damage base per rank and .1 less AP Scaling W works while invis with E

Saianna1 votes

tbh i did read it later. And I am sooooo fucking pissed. It's not a rework but a nerfwork.

hazerddex2 votes

because teemo is not a scout......hes the devil.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

KiyaaKing2 votes

Played a game in PBE.....sort of impressed. New E did not feel bad at all when I got used to it. The slow does make his title a little odd, but if that's as bad as it gets I'm all for the changes. You can use the E just like his old passive if you use brush during the cooldown (shortens it to like 3 seconds) and it allows you to flank out of brush for less predictable engages. The shroom change feels bad early, but late it feels like URF so I see where they were going with it. Only thing I don't like is that Q damage interaction with the passive. Seems kind of unnecessary and only works on like 2 ticks of damage max.

Karn Bishop2 votes

I think the slow is needed unless he loses some unessary power in his kit, if they remove the slowon that skill the shrooms vision should also be removed and only provide vision when they detonate.

Seriously they provide too much vision and go against the norm of all trap based items like caitlyn, jhin ect ect.

MankeyMadness1 votes

He has Move Quick. The self slow sounds like its during the 1 second channel time, similar to Twitch. Without it hes actually a better Twitch now

Draw My Fursona1 votes

He is slowed during E by 25/22.5/20/17.5/15%, which is said in the post by Riot Jag.

KFCeytron1 votes

Is Teemo being reworked? Is his passive stealth being moved to an E active? No more "I'm a ward"?

5050BS1 votes

Ya but if you build everything with Bonus movement speed you can get to like 600-650 even in stealth

FakeGravity1 votes

they should have mixed that new E with his current W into a new skill, then give him something new for his E, a camp, a scouting tool, a small dash?

scout camp: teemo marks a bush as his camp( only out of combat), enemies can see a bush is a camp and only one bush can be mark at a time (insert heavy colddown) while in the camp bush teemo in completely invisible and can not be reveal and takes reduce damage, leaving the bush or attacking permanently reveal teemo and disable the bush as his camp until he exit combat.

or, scouting stand: teemo climb up a wall scouting the area around him, after a short delay teemo can jump down on either side of the wall, teemo can be seen by enemies on either side of the wall and cant attack or use skills until he gets down

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

As a teemo player and specifically a fan of his ap/as builds compared to burst or tank the "rework" seems cool to me aside from the self slow.

It's really my only issue as i feel like i'll be able to navigate a teamfight better and actually use his stealth outside bush or as level one cheese. The best part about is that it still feels sounds like teemo. Nothing really changed, he just got some more tools to work with.

i'm also not a fan of self slows in general unless they fit thematically like varus' arrow. I pretty much dropped rammus after they added it. and while it's a pain on blitz i 100% understand why it's there, i don't see the reason here.

Shurimoo1 votes

The changes are interesting but the kit says to me "Hide in a bush and instakill anyone who approaches" What they really needed to do was shift power from his q and make him have other mana costs or ways to interact with his enemy outside of q (point and click) and auto (point and click). For the record, I play ADC/Mid/Sup/Top*, in that order, so I'm not trying to say he can't be an auto attacking champ. My point is that any ADC that doesn't become increasingly unfun to fight has more skillshots in their kit than abilities which are entirely passive or auto enhancers and the same is true for Teemo. In fact, it's even worse for Teemo since he goes toplane and abuses every melee champ in the game. Personally, I liked the idea of his poison being a toggle akin to Jinx q where if he is applying his passive it costs him mana, though that only deals with part of the underlying issues I mentioned (he'd have more mana costs so he doesn't just spam Q on you, but he'd still only have autos and a point and click for interacting with you). Also, yes, I know his R exists but it's not part of his laning in the same way given afaik he mostly uses it to waveclear and even then it's already technically a skillshot. So long as you see him throw it out when fighting him in lane you have counterplay to it.

Idea: Have the poison toggle, his q only deals some % of its total damage and no blind unless they're already poisoned by his passive in which case the "poisons react" and he blinds his target. This would mean he needs more setup to meme people out of csing or autoing in general and also make his q less of a "throw me out on cooldown" ability in lane

Also, skimming through the other comments, I see someone who said they play a lot of teemo mention that they wish he could stealth in lane and I have to say that is one of the most toxic parts of teemo's kit. If he's going to be able to stealth the same way he can on live servers they desperately need to make it not be true stealth or whatever exact type it is that you can't reveal him with a sweeper nor by being near him, just one of those two would be ideal. One of the things I do really like about this rework is the fact he can't easily sit in a lane and pop up next to someone to delete them since I believe his new e has a duration on it if you aren't in a bush, I may have misread the ability though.

*Disclaimer that Top IS indeed my last role so I admit I don't exactly fight teemo often in his actual laning phase. Given this, I can very easily be wrong on some points. In fact, checking Champ.gg, it seems he maxes E instead of Q so it looks like his harass is predominantly autoattacks now instead of q (after also looking at the base damage).

wolvius1 votes

For those who haven't seen the post they're on about: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/fOgfco8Y-teemo-changes-temporarily-on-pbe-for-early-feedback

Or you can see it on surrender at 20 as well.

The selfslow from new E sounds awkward but I think it's more so to force you to use your W (since it no longer ends stealth) with it if you want to escape from someone already within whatever the "camo" range is going to be, they didn't say he if loses w passive speed while using E did they?. Cause that little devil can move quick with that W passive and w active speed.

From my understanding with rank 2 W active and rank 1 E your still moving above your default move speed so it is not a complete nerf, seems like their trying to make a trade off between W and E since bonus attack speed in dependant on E rank.

Kenneky1 votes

I wish they just changed his W, as much as I hate his stealth I feel like this was his only way to get away. Maybe even making it a dash or something more useful. One change I always wanted for his stealth was If he get hit by an enemy or seen by Scryer's Blooms (the vision plant) he is revealed. I believe that would have been a better change, but what do i know about game design anyway...

It's funny that you mentioned Jhin's immobility, that is one of the reasons I like him, I like going fast for no reason, yes it's ironic, but still...

SanKakU1 votes

He doesn't have to stand still to get the stealth, therefore it's a buff.

Muzét1 votes

I'm really hoping a full relaunch for Teemo. Galio level. He doesn't even feel like a scout. Evelynn's passive would fit him so does Talon E. You want mobility and disabling enemies as a Scout.

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