Twitch and Tristana

Moonfall Saber·Sep 10, 2017·27 votes·3,513 views

Can you nerf them already. Shit. is 99% better than like wtf? And is a late game champion who is also an early game and a mid game. Like there isnt a point in the game where she is bad. wtF?

51 Comments

SlythionSep 10, 201718 votes

I think it's funny about all the Tristana hate (deserved), but the only reason she's strong is because she's no long outclassed and bullied out by the champs like Caitlyn .

She's a classic case of "strong because others got nerfed" scenario, I find it interesting

AFilthyCaitMainSep 10, 20172 votes

Ive been saying this for the past several weeks lol

RainfallSep 10, 20171 votes

theyre nerfing her e ad scale i think and r damage. Tristana just rose as an adc because everything else got nerfed for the LCS,i dont know if anyone noticed but riot in 2 patches brought the 30% playrate 52% winrate caitlyn to the state she is now,this was bound to happen.

OtterlyLostSep 10, 20176 votes

{quoted}

I think it's funny about all the Tristana hate (deserved), but the only reason she's strong is because she's no long outclassed and bullied out by the champs like .

She's a classic case of "strong because others got nerfed" scenario, I find it interesting

Its not deserved hate for one. For two, before Cait got nerfed, I had 55% win rate on 200+ games in ranked with her; that's going against Cait, Lucian, and Draven who have all had their turns to be strong and who all supposedly "counter" Tristana. Tristana has always been strong with the exception of early in the season when she suffered the most from ADCs just being trash tier. She's not actually a classic case of "strong because others got nerfed." She's a classic case of,"Oh my items got buffed! :D That's nic-wait, why am I being nerfed when its just my items that are strong? :("

And like cait, pre nerfs, Tristana has a high play rate but people are still only winning 50% of the time wit her. Her win rate is only 50% and still out classed by Twitch, whom is actually a problem and in need of a nerf.

SlythionSep 10, 20172 votes

don't state statistics without siting a source.

Tristana is sitting at a nearly 52% win-rate with a 20-30% play-rate, depending on the source you check. (leagueofgraphs.com vs. champion.gg are what I checked. I find leagueofgraphs much more reputable though). This is for plat+ btw, the relevant ranks to pull stats from.

Those may not be op numbers, but they are definitely on the strong side considering her play rate.

Also: your personal experience isn't an applicable source to present an argument with, especially from a silver 3 player. No, that's not rank shaming, that's me simply clarifying that you haven't played with/against players playing their champions correctly or at their full potential. Not to mention using secluded cases that could be outliers of the norm as an excuse to apply that situation as a fact is frowned upon in any statistics course you could ever take.
Champions like Caitlyn, Lucian, and Draven do counter Tristana btw. All 3 are able to zone and bully Tristana out early, and all 3 have received respective nerfs, which in-turn gave Tristana an indirect buff.
No one said anything about Twitch not being a problem. He is a problem and should be addressed (although personally I believe that could be handled by looking at support itemization). Please don't try to redirect attention to another problem when we're talking about a different one.

OtterlyLostSep 10, 20174 votes

{quoted}

don't state statistics without siting a source.

Tristana is sitting at a nearly 52% win-rate with a 20-30% play-rate, depending on the source you check. (leagueofgraphs.com vs. champion.gg are what I checked. I find leagueofgraphs much more reputable though). This is for plat+ btw, the relevant ranks to pull stats from.

Those may not be op numbers, but they are definitely on the strong side considering her play rate.

Also: your personal experience isn't an applicable source to present an argument with, especially from a silver 3 player. No, that's not rank shaming, that's me simply clarifying that you haven't played with/against players playing their champions correctly or at their full potential. Not to mention using secluded cases that could be outliers of the norm as an excuse to apply that situation as a fact is frowned upon in any statistics course you could ever take.

Champions like Caitlyn, Lucian, and Draven do counter Tristana btw. All 3 are able to zone and bully Tristana out early, and all 3 have received respective nerfs, which in-turn gave Tristana an indirect buff.

No one said anything about Twitch not being a problem. He is a problem and should be addressed (although personally I believe that could be handled by looking at support itemization). Please don't try to redirect attention to another problem when we're talking about a different one.

My source for Tristana's win rate is right here: http://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/adc A solid 50% on OP.GG which is considered the most reputable place to check winrates. This is Plat + as well. League of Graphs has her at a 51% (https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tristana) and so does Champion.GG (http://champion.gg/champion/Tristana/ADC). Furthermore, my personal experience should count for plenty, regardless of my rank. :/ I've played well over 3-4k games over two seasons on her and I know her exceptionally well as a champion, probably one of the few people who ACTUALLY do and didn't just bandwagon on her when she was suddenly considered "OP." I know the hate that's spawning isn't actually cropping up because she's broken or over powered but because, like Cait, people find her annoying and are shit at dealing with her, even if she is ridiculously easy to deal with. She doesn't deserve nerfs or the hate she's getting when she's only ever strong when they buff her items.

As for Twitch being fixed by simply looking at support items; that is flat out bs. He has literally being top tier ADC since preseason across three different ADC metas and builds; he's been capable of abusing every single build that's cropped up, from lethality, to BoRK, to Crit. And yet the boards has remained suspiciously silent on this fact where as Cait and Tristana apparently deserve nerfs. :/

GayFluffyUnicornSep 11, 20173 votes

Yes, tell me how ridiculously easy you deal with a champ who has an ardent slave, two self peels, high range, is moderately tanky and even mobile with resets. No she is broken, the fact that she always comes up shit or overpowered godtier just shows how broken she actually is. Whenever items are in her favor comes off as way tooo stronk. If not, she is shit and outclassed.

Because cait is just bullshit and riot nerfed everything except what is bullshit about her and then nerfed her bullshit. Twitch is beyond busted but noone at rito cares when he has 55% average winrate, 30% banrate and 20% playrate. Tristana is in the same tier but if you are after 4k games still silver on her you do NOT know your champ well. You also can't compare adcs in low elo to high(er) elo that's just a simple fact. ADCs in high elo are beyond broken tier especially the mentioned ones. So hard that top players like noway4u who is a four times challenger thinks about not streaming league anymore. I play a lot on smurfs and you simply cannot compare silver/gold mechanics and team protection of an adc to dia+.

NyarlathοtepSep 10, 201713 votes

Did i just read that tristan is an early-mid champion? Whut?

undesirable teamSep 10, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Did i just read that tristan is an early-mid champion? Whut?

50% slow lv 1 stupid burst e dmg r has high bases atk speed base is high high poke very high dmg item 3087 item 3031

meowwow7Sep 10, 20178 votes

60% slow if she decides to rocket jump onto you which in most cases isn't a good idea unless you've eaten quite a few free autos with an e on you which you are saying is why her e has "burst" r has high bases well it kinda needs to since it has no ad scaling like the other adc ults the high base as isn't even her own it's from the q and high poke? if she is "poking" you stay away from the low minions

OtterlyLostSep 10, 20179 votes

[{quoted}](name=JlHADlST DRAVEN,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOdvjTTH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-09-10T19:37:23.912+0000)

50% slow lv 1 stupid burst e dmg r has high bases atk speed base is high high poke very high dmg

No, she does not have a 50% slow at lvl 1; if she takes that level 1, she will get ass fucked. Second of all, that STAYS as a 50% slow until both her E and Q are maxed out; I like how you ignore the fact that this is her LAST TO BE MAXED ability and also the fact that this slow is on her best form of escape. She's rarely ever using this "50% Lvl 1" slow past laning for the slow. -_-

Yes, her E has huge burst but it also has incredibly long CD and takes you standing in her AA range to for the full duration to do meaningful damage; if you do that, at that point, its your fault for not exiting the trade.

R has high bases because R doesn't scale with AD; R only scales with AP. Furthermore, its a fucking R. All ultimates have high base damages.

Base AS starts out about the same as other AD's but doesn't scale half as well as other AD's due to her Q giving her a lot of AS. :/ She cannot, personally, make it past 2.0 AS late game without her Q activated due to how poorly her AS scales into the game.

She does not have high poke. She has NO ABILITIES which enable her to easily poke; her only form of poke is via Auto Attacks, the range of which doesn't even match Cait until I think like level 16. She does NOT have high poke.

These items are currently over tuned on ANY ADC and they are not limited to Tristana in the least. Any ADC is currently building them because Riot buffed them and they are ridiculously over tuned as a result.

Also, Tristana does have a decently safe early game and a strong late game but unless she's ridiculously fed, she falls off mid game; she doesn't have the damage yet to effectively teamfight, she's still trying to level up her Q so its not especially magical, and her range is not long enough for her to safely poke and siege. She literally relies on someone else on her team to poke and siege for her during the mid game because she personally has no way to poke safely.

undesirable teamSep 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No, she does not have a 50% slow at lvl 1; if she takes that level 1, she will get ass fucked. Second of all, that STAYS as a 50% slow until both her E and Q are maxed out; I like how you ignore the fact that this is her LAST TO BE MAXED ability and also the fact that this slow is on her best form of escape. She's rarely ever using this "50% Lvl 1" slow past laning for the slow. -_-

Yes, her E has huge burst but it also has incredibly long CD and takes you standing in her AA range to for the full duration to do meaningful damage; if you do that, at that point, its your fault for not exiting the trade.

R has high bases because R doesn't scale with AD; R only scales with AP. Furthermore, its a fucking R. All ultimates have high base damages.

Base AS starts out about the same as other AD's but doesn't scale half as well as other AD's due to her Q giving her a lot of AS. :/ She cannot, personally, make it past 2.0 AS late game without her Q activated due to how poorly her AS scales into the game.

She does not have high poke. She has NO ABILITIES which enable her to easily poke; her only form of poke is via Auto Attacks, the range of which doesn't even match Cait until I think like level 16. She does NOT have high poke.

These items are currently over tuned on ANY ADC and they are not limited to Tristana in the least. Any ADC is currently building them because Riot buffed them and they are ridiculously over tuned as a result.

Also, Tristana does have a decently safe early game and a strong late game but unless she's ridiculously fed, she falls off mid game; she doesn't have the damage yet to effectively teamfight, she's still trying to level up her Q so its not especially magical, and her range is not long enough for her to safely poke and siege. She literally relies on someone else on her team to poke and siege for her during the mid game because she personally has no way to poke safely.

yeah tristana one-trick defending her champ xddxddxdxdxdxdxxd

FatedSaviourSep 11, 20171 votes

ok, how about a sion one trick agreeing with the guy above, ive played trist also, ik how the champ works, stop complaining about her, i'd rather vs her than a twitch, twitch adc is such an unfun meta to vs, i remember ezreal adc, is was so fun to fight, trying to bait out the E and time the shots, his Q had so much kill/poke pressure but was also mana nomming, so much more fun than twitch to fight

OtterlyLostSep 11, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=JlHADlST DRAVEN,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOdvjTTH,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2017-09-11T00:35:29.993+0000)

yeah tristana one-trick defending her champ xddxddxdxdxdxdxxd

Yeah, a Draven main complaining about burst damage xdxdxdxdxdxdddxdxxxddxxdddd

Glad to know you couldn't come up with a good counter argument besides,"oh a tristana one trick, lul of cours she's not broken."

10 fpsSep 10, 20171 votes

Tristana has one of the worst early games. Which is why Longzhu could pick a 44% w/r ADC, Caitlyn, and make Skt's Tristana useless for the rest of the game.

Daddy AntsSep 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=I will misclick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOdvjTTH,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2017-09-10T23:28:25.629+0000)

Tristana has one of the worst early games. Which is why Longzhu could pick a 44% w/r ADC, Caitlyn, and make Skt's Tristana useless for the rest of the game.

Lol no she doesn't.

Vayne has the worst early game out of current ADC's.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 11, 20172 votes

Yeah..... Always good to compare proplay to plebplay and show how you don't know anything what you are talking about. Ofc a botlane who knows PERFECTLY WELL where their jungler and midlaner is 24/7, what the enemy is doing. They can abuse the pressure of caitlyn. SoloQ cannot. Stop comparing proplay to soloQ it's just getting tiring hearing the same bullshit over and over. It makes no sense to compare it.

10 fpsSep 11, 20171 votes

Then what should I use as an example? Bronze? Platinum? Diamond? Why should I consider elos where they don't know how to play the game as well as pros? How does that make sense? And are you telling me that just because someone is in SoloQ, they can't play the lane, Caitlyn vs Tristana, properly?

Hell, in my gold games, I can easily abuse Tristana's early game as Jinx while having horrible map awareness.

Skins ProjectSep 11, 20174 votes

Wtf

"Very high dmg" Lists 2 items that cost 2600 and 3400 gold respectively, sorry Do you start with 6k Gold every game?

& Your saying if an ADC legit JUMPS ON YOU, like MELEE range of you, then they have a 50% slow? Yea 10/10

Moonfall SaberSep 10, 20175 votes

Tristana is meant to have an early weak game and a strong late game. Right now shes just strong all game.

ExecutionerSep 10, 201715 votes

But she isn't strong early at all.

xXRaichopXxSep 10, 20171 votes

She can't lose any trades if she has bomb up.

You can't counter cancer.

KnoyleSep 11, 20171 votes

Oh yeah, Caitlyn that Draven thing will win Jhin you so many MissFortune trades Jhin early Xayah It does like 1 extra auto at full stack early.

xXRaichopXxSep 12, 20171 votes

Sure...

GayFluffyUnicornSep 11, 20175 votes

She is. There is no matchup who can pressure her hard out of farm. She wins often enough early game and you know this but who wants to lose that sweet 60% winrate on her.

ThefrostyvikingSep 11, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOdvjTTH,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-09-10T20:49:30.887+0000)

Tristana is meant to have an early weak game and a strong late game. Right now shes just strong all game.

She isn't strong all game ._.

Her shitty range in the early lvls ensures that any botlane with damage or engage spanks her early. I´ve done it playing Ashe who is arguably one of the weakest if no the weakest marksman currently.

But i´ll admit that Trist has a good combo at 6 with E-Q-W-R-W, however it's fairly slow, if you´d played Trist you´d know that that combo is a absolute disaster do to in a 2v2 since it puts you in range of the enemy supports.

Most of the time you´d hide behind your own support and E while trying to auto the one you are looking to kill while ulting for displacement or to secure a kill.

But she isn't able to be as aggressive as just " jump in and drop godly combo anytime".

Heck i once saw a trist try that vs a Mf that kept running in and out of bushes and the result was a duskblade proc that along with MF's passive chunked nearly all of trists health before she even knew what happened....then she died like 3 hits and a Q later.

Buuuuut.

Trist with item 3087 item 3094 item 3031 is indeed too strong.....but that's becaues the items themselves are too strong, we know this because this build caused cait to be OP, it's causing Twitch and Draven using them to be OP, it even made Corki a little OP.

But that's the items, if we look back at the time when marksmen rolled hurricane before static and RFC buffs then we know Trist was kinda bad.

Altho Twitch was already a god back then.

PePsiLemoNNSep 10, 20177 votes

Shit. is 99% better than

What is this?

Btw Trist IS shit early.

KanzlerSep 10, 20174 votes

Trist could honestly use some toning down early and this is coming from someone who played her before she became flavor of the month.

I'm no balance expert, but perhaps increase CD and/or lower damage of early rank E without changing max rank.

10 fpsSep 11, 20171 votes

Tristana is already bad enough early. It is hard for that champion to get out of lane. That is, if you're playing against a competent person who knows how to abuse her weaknesses. Secondly, Tristana does not need a nerf. She was a shit tier ADC before and nothing changed except items got buffed. These items are being built by everyone and their mother and they need a nerf not Tristana. If Tristana gets nerfed and the items do as well, what is left of Tristana? She'd be even worse than she was before. Tristana is not the problem.

AirKingNeoSep 10, 20175 votes

Tristana is only a problem because of items and the meta. Twitch is the only ADC, besides maybe Xayah, who's too strong based on their kit.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 11, 20172 votes

No she is not. For her entire existence her kit is exactly the problem. Over all those years she is either non existent or godtier. And no rework changed that.

AirKingNeoSep 11, 20171 votes

SO YOU'RE SAYING, A CHAMPION WHO WAS SHIT TIER FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR MIGHT

MIGHT

JUST BECOME POWERFUL WHEN EVERY POSSIBLE SITUATION TURNS IN HER FAVOR

Fucking shocker. Maybe buffing crit items, giving Shiv to stall out games, making supports broken, turning tanks into peel bots and abuse support items. Maybe that's what made Tristana overpowered. Just think aloud with using some common sense and logical reasoning.

ElectryaSep 10, 20173 votes

I 'd rather nerf the tank who can one shot people... Chogath

Moonfall SaberSep 10, 20175 votes

adcs are so broken right now id rather go against a cho than a Tristana Twitch Vayne

FatedSaviourSep 11, 20171 votes

i have a sincere question about cho ult stoneplate, if stoneplate would essentially double your damage with ult, but stoneplate reduced the damage dealt by 60%, im pretty sure this value would affect true damage, so it doesnt seem like it would do THAT much more damage

FatedSaviourSep 11, 20173 votes

when you nerf something, just because its the strongest, all you get is new, more op contenders, they need to give other adc's a little love, but also, make sure the support items arent being abused, plus, i used to love trist before she was meta, i dont want her nerfed because everyone NOW realized how good she is

ArakadiaSep 11, 20173 votes

You don't want her nerfed because people just realize that is she is overpowered? Do you want her nerfed a month after people realized her overpowered?

FatedSaviourSep 11, 20171 votes

well think about it, they have priorities, people have been complaining about twitch twice as long, as least with trist she has some bad stages of the game and a bit more outplay, they still have to statifies peoples need to cho, give yorick a new skin, release star guardian urgot, nerf xayah E, there are many issues, why nerf the least worrysome first, she isnt even that op

ArakadiaSep 11, 20172 votes

Nerfing Tristana doesn't take months. Its a pretty quick thing, you just have to decide IF you want to nerf her.

In addition, the team that makes skins does their own thing while the team that balances the game does their job without disrupting skin production.

Its not like nerfing Tristana would not slow down skin production.

Douglas FunnieSep 10, 20172 votes

I've been perma-banning Twitch since the release of the horribly implemented 0-10 ban system.

DaNinadSep 10, 20172 votes

Twitch, yes. I have mixed feeling about tristana tbh, atleast your whole team can't be destroyed with 3 autoattacks with her

BlåbæretSep 10, 20172 votes

Tristana is fine.

Twitch has needed nerfs for months now. He's an AoE assassin.

FatedSaviourSep 11, 20174 votes

adc with invisibility and extra ad, atk range and peircing on ult, its stupid, oh yeah, with free burst from E

SirTeemoMushroomSep 10, 20171 votes

yet ... no teemo buffs

Daddy AntsSep 10, 20171 votes

Tristana is days away from receiving deserved nerfs.

Tristana Explosive Charge (E) bonus AD on physical damage lowered from 50/65/80/95/110% to 50/60/70/80/90%

OelykSep 10, 20171 votes

TBH, AD Itemization would tone everything back easily, she used to be Bork Hurricane and that scaled back her power spike significantly, but it was safe and self-sustaining, however triple crit has way too much synergy and Warriors bloodlust doesn't help because it synergies with Crit and solves the health sustain problem. I don't believe that Tristana should be hit in the late game, that's against the entire point of the class and her theme, but yeah, as a Tristana main, her early game is as strong as her support, which is a ton better with melee pressure supports, because she relies a lot of getting out damage with W, surprisingly. I will forever support her as a Tristana main, so it's hard to give something up, but the fact that she can get bullied out of lane but still make it back with relative safety is a little bit ridiculous.

Death by GlamourSep 11, 20171 votes

Trist isn't good in the mid game but she's far from terrible early. I can't think of one adc who is actually bad early.

NiteliteSep 11, 20171 votes

Inb4 People are complaining about being shoved in by Sivir and Xayah . Seems to go like clockwork every year that we have bully adcs dominant, then scaling adcs, followed by shove in the wave adcs at the end of the year.