Riot needs to stop giving stackable passives

Silven·May 14, 2015·3 votes·578 views

For reference, I am talking about stackable passives that activate an effect after an action has been fulfilled x many times. I.e. Skarner's passive, Vayne's W, Gnar's W, Vi's W... I wanna say Varus' W but that has a bit more commitment.

I mean, the concept is cool and I get that most of those do completely different things, but when I saw the Ekko passive in the Champion Reveal, I just sighed. "Oh good, copy-pasted right from Gnar."

I think Riot could have done a thousand times better if they burrowed into their brains, but I can't for the life of me figure out why someone on the Ekko dev team went: "Guys, I can't think of anything for Ekko's passive, but I think that if we just slammed Mini-Gnar's W in that spot we'll be fine."

It makes champions feel very much less diverse if they have the same abilities.

13 Comments

RockmanMay 14, 20152 votes

Except it isn't the same so nice try

DisasterSolaMay 14, 20152 votes

Except its not Gnars passive. And it has a very specific purpose; Securing kills and CS.

Unlike Gnar (whose W passive is exactly the same as Vi's, with more damage), Ekko's passive requires him to commit in order to get the damage off. He cant proc his w unless his enemy is below 30% health.

Sona PingMay 14, 20152 votes

What, no! He's talking about Ekko's Passive, which is the same as Gnar's W ability. He's not talking about Ekko's second and additional passive, try to keep up before trying to correct others.

DisasterSolaMay 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOHIXVhm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-14T09:53:57.186+0000)

What, no! He's talking about Ekko's Passive, which _is _the same as Gnar's W ability. He's not talking about Ekko's second, additional passive, try to keep up before trying to correct others.

The point still stands sugarcube. Ekkos primary passive is nothing like Gnars; It doesnt do %HP nor does it do a small amount of damage which is meant to be augmented with attack speed. In fact, Ekkos primary passive is a 200+0.6AP scaling damage with a 3 second external cooldown.

If anything, its a stupidly stronger version of diana's passive. Which wasnt mentioned. Almost every ability mentioned in the OP was %HP. Skarners is a stun, braums is a stun, etc. Only Ekko and Diana has this kind of passive, if i recall correctly

AbyssphereMay 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The point still stands sugarcube. Ekkos primary passive is nothing like Gnars; It doesnt do %HP nor does it do a small amount of damage which is meant to be augmented with attack speed. In fact, Ekkos primary passive is a 200+0.6AP scaling damage with a 3 second external cooldown.

If anything, its a stupidly stronger version of diana's passive. Which wasnt mentioned. Almost every ability mentioned in the OP was %HP. Skarners is a stun, braums is a stun, etc. Only Ekko and Diana has this kind of passive, if i recall correctly

Yeah but you have to include Ekko gaining movement speed after procing his passive. Gnar does that, Di doesn't.

I do agree that the comparison with Gnar isn't exact but he wasn't being literal with "copy-pasted". It's still yet another "attack this person X times, do extra damage and get a random utility buff". It isn't very creative.

DisasterSolaMay 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but you have to include Ekko gaining movement speed after procing his passive. Gnar does that, Di doesn't.

I do agree that the comparison with Gnar isn't exact but he wasn't being literal with "copy-pasted". It's still yet another "attack this person X times, do extra damage and get a random utility buff". It isn't very creative.

Yeah....

"Oh good, copy-pasted right from Gnar."

He didnt mean it figuratively, where the concept is the same.

And even if the concept is the same, the usage of it is entirely different; what with Gnar being ranged and Ekko being melee.

Sona PingMay 14, 20153 votes

Gnar's damaging abilities and basic attacks build marks on targets. At 3 stacks the target takes bonus magic damage that scales higher over the course of the game and Gnar gains a movement speed buff. Ekko's damaging abilities and basic attacks build marks on targets. At 3 stacks the target champion takes bonus magic damage that scales higher over the course of the game and Ekko gains a movement speed buff.

So I can see why OP said that. There is merit in the comparison. Right, there is different stuff though; Ekko's passive also slows all targets it hits and applies spell effects. But that just makes it "same, but with more stuff". And don't bring up that it doesn't do %damage, that's the same type of damage except stronger than it already is. On a different topic: Diana's passive is only bonus damage with AoE, it doesn't have the MS adjustments or even the stacking on target. So if what you are talking about is not choosing the best comparison, that's not right either.

DisasterSolaMay 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOHIXVhm,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2015-05-14T10:16:26.953+0000)

Gnar's damaging abilities and basic attacks build marks on targets. At 3 stacks the target takes bonus magic damage that scales higher over the course of the game and Gnar gains a movement speed buff. Ekko's damaging abilities and basic attacks build marks on targets. At 3 stacks the target champion takes bonus magic damage that scales higher over the course of the game and Ekko gains a movement speed buff.

So I can see why OP said that. There is merit in the comparison. Right, there is different stuff though; Ekko's passive also slows all targets it hits and applies spell effects. But that just makes it "same, but with more stuff". And don't bring up that it doesn't do %damage, that's the same thing except would make it stronger than it already is.

But its NOT gnars passive o.O'' Gnars hyper passive does %HP damage AND CAN BE PROCCED AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF TIMES WITHOUT A COOLDOWN. Ekkos passive has exactly two similarities with Gnar; Increased movement speed upon proc, and a three hits mechanic with flat base damage.

Honestly. Saying Ekkos passive is a copy/paste of Gnars w passive is like saying rengars ult is a copy/paste of twitches Q. Its a comparison, but its not a direct copy. Youd be better off saying "Dianas passive with more stuff"; Which also means the passive is different enough to stand alone in the lineup.

ProfDrDeathMay 14, 20151 votes

Hmm.

While you're right in principle, the things those champions do are quite similar.

However, the role those abilities play could not be more different.

Looking at Ekko's kit, it seems to me that his passive is actually his main damage tool - both the initial part of Q and E have rather mediocre AP scaling and quite low base damages. And, while his ult is rather huge, it is also majorly telegraphed (exactly four seconds telegraphed, in fact).

DisasterSolaMay 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hmm.

While you're right in principle, the things those champions do are quite similar.

However, the role those abilities play could not be more different.

Looking at Ekko's kit, it seems to me that his passive is actually his main damage tool - both the initial part of Q and E have rather mediocre AP scaling and quite low base damages. And, while his ult is rather huge, it is also majorly telegraphed (exactly four seconds telegraphed, in fact).

Passive: At 3 stacks the target takes 「 15 + (12 × Ekko's level) 」(+ 70% AP) bonus magic damage

Q: Outgoing Magic Damage: 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 130 (+ 20% AP) Incoming Magic Damage: 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 60% AP)

Ekkos Q is actually a very strong waveclear tool; which is GREAT because ekko isnt a "BURST U DED LULZ" champion. For reference: Passive at level 18: 231+0.7AP Q at level 5: 290+0.8AP

ProfDrDeathMay 15, 20151 votes

Yes, Q is a strong waveclear tool.

However, I wouldn't call it burst damage exactly - Q stretching and then retracting takes far too much time to instantly delete someone. So yeah, you're right.

Ekko isn't exactly going to burst you, unless you're stupid and walk into his range with low HP (dat W) or walk next to his hologram (1.3 AP burst, badabuum). Or walk into his 2.25 second stun trap.

DisasterSolaMay 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, Q is a strong waveclear tool.

However, I wouldn't call it burst damage exactly - Q stretching and then retracting takes far too much time to instantly delete someone. So yeah, you're right.

Ekko isn't exactly going to burst you, unless you're stupid and walk into his range with low HP (dat W) or walk next to his hologram (1.3 AP burst, badabuum). Or walk into his 2.25 second stun trap.

Id imagine ekko in a professional team fight would be crazy strong. Id also imagine ekko on a lockdown comp would be insane with the sheer amount of time he can add to the lockdown. Shit like 8~10 seconds of chain CC becomes possible.

RockmanMay 14, 20151 votes

This is pathetic

Yes if you boils down a skill you can make them similar

wtf Yas and Xin Q the same!