Boards›Gameplay

I think I know the issue with champions like Thresh, Yasuo, and Lee Sin.

YumaS2Astral·Nov 3, 2015·2 votes·895 views

is not overpowered. He has a lot of counterplay.

is arguably overpowered but he is hard to master, and even then, many people simply don't know how to abuse his strengths.

is constantly complained aboud with the "unfun to play against" argument, despite the fact that he is balanced.

I think I know the issue with those champions. The issue is that they are extremely popular, and because of this, people notice how strong and annoying to play against they are, because those champion's strengths and ability to counter other champions tend to be more notable. Thus, they tend to be complained about. If they weren't as popular, nobody would complain about them. For example, Lee Sin is able to counterjungle effectively, especially against tanks, and thus, because he is very popular, people consider tanks to be unviable choices for the jungle. If was popular for example, everyone would consider assassins to be unviable. If was popular, nobody would play any champion that doesn't have point-click abilities.

I remember the time where was popular. He was considered extremely strong, to the point that he was called the king of top lane. Any champion who couldn't survive against him in lane was considered unviable for top lane. Renekton didn't received any nerfs, though. He was actually buffed, and even then, he is considered to be balanced now. Why? Peharps this is because he is not nearly as popular as before? If he was more popular, I am sure people would complain about him.

On my opinion, the popularity of a champion can affect the popular opinion about him. Currently, nobody complains about , , and , but if they were a bit more popular, people would call for nerfs against them.

According to champion.gg, Thresh has the single highest playrate (37.25%), Lee Sin has the third highest playrate (29.68%) and Yasuo has the fourteenth highest playrate (13.47%).

9 Comments

ZileanUltJesusOPNov 3, 20153 votes

A couple things.

While thresh isn't broken persay, he has an overloaded kit. That is undeniable.
Lee Sin is balanced by a high skill cap therefore he is hard to nerf or buff. Nerf him and he is unviable in low elo. Buff him and he goes apeshit in high elo.
Yas is the only champion that is unbalanced. Argue any way you want. RNG champions have never been of good design and yasuo isn't any different. The fact that once he has IE and shiv regardless of how long it takes him and he can still do loads and loads of damage is absurd. According to allleaguefacts . com his passive gives him more stats/gold than any other passive in the game. He doesn't need the double crit. It is just toxic.
Nidalee and Fizz aren't complained about because Riot took the nerf bat to them and balanced them out.
Did you see Yi on sated release?
Also not sure what you are talking about but renekton was thrown out of the meta for a bit because Riot raped him by buffing all of his counters.
The community tends to pick champions who are "op" or FOTM and good at the time, hence the high play rate.

There are such things as unhealthy champions and "op" champions. The problem with these 3 is that they have kits that allow the mto thrive as a top tier pick regardless of the meta and the enemy champions picked. You can pick lee and Thresh against anyone. Yasuo not as much but his ridiculous synergy with items makes up for that.

Frost HellfireNov 3, 20151 votes

"Yasuo is unbalanced" You have my upvote for that, m8.

Frost HellfireNov 3, 20152 votes

I don't know anything about balance, but keep in mind that Yasuo has an overloaded kit. (You know it is overloaded when a "projectile only" wall blocks a giant, fed, 60000HP Sion and can deal tons of damage while dodging everything with E and W, plus the super low cooldown on his Q, without mentioning that after Shiv and Infinity Edge he doesn't even need to Q) Plus, he has three times the passive advantages any other champion has. Armor pen? Passive shield? Doubled critical hit chances? Like, come on, 80% of the champions have one really small passive. Hell, Zilean can only donate levels now. Zilean item 3070

(I know this post wasn't really about Yasuo or anything, but I had to get that out of my system after reading "balanced" in his description.)

YumaS2AstralNov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't know anything about balance, but keep in mind that Yasuo has an overloaded kit. (You know it is overloaded when a "projectile only" wall blocks a giant, fed, 60000HP and can deal tons of damage while dodging everything with E and W, plus the super low cooldown on his Q, without mentioning that after Shiv and Infinity Edge he doesn't even need to Q) Plus, he has three times the passive advantages any other champion has. Armor pen? Passive shield? Doubled critical hit chances? Like, come on, 80% of the champions have one really small passive. Hell, Zilean can only donate levels now.

(I know this post wasn't really about Yasuo or anything, but I had to get that out of my system after reading "balanced" in his description.)

Yasuo is technically balanced because he can be beaten in lane with many champions. He is also not easy to master, he is squishy, melee, and team composition reliant.

Athenes LuluNov 3, 20152 votes

There's a difference in between "overloaded" and "overpowered".

DISCLAIMER THEY ARE JUST HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLES DO NOT TAKE THESE AS PROVEN FACTS

Overpowered is at the same amount of skillful play against someone with equal skill, x beats y simply because he has better stats. For example, in a matchup of Yasuo vs. Zed, Yasuo won simply because he has better stats. If it was a Yasuo vs. Ahri matchup where if Yasuo won, it doesn't count because he counters her because of his kit.

Overloaded is when a champion can do so much that he replaces 3 or more already existing champs while executing the jobs better. It's unfair for other champs that specialize at some aspects of gameplay yet his/her abilities are outshined by that one overloaded champion. For example, you pick Thresh over Leona, Lulu, AND Tahm because 1) he has powerful engage that are just as strong as Leona's but with less penalty, 2) his harass/zoning potential is just as strong as Lulu's but with less penalty because he doesn't have to waste mana and can still disengage while Lulu doesn't have that luxury, and 3) Thresh's lantern > TK's W because Thresh can save allies completely and safe FROM RANGE with a click of a lantern, while TK HAS to be in range and danger himself to run away alive.

The problem with those three is the fact that they are overloaded, not overpowered. It is already a problem if their numbers are naturally high, but it is an even bigger problem when they replaced champion pools.

alasarcherNov 3, 20151 votes

Exactly. If opponent is better than you, he will beat u no matter if he plays Yasuo or any other champion. Just look at Veigar- his buffs : meteor falls 0.25 sec faster, a bit more range on Q and AP gain on assists. What do people complain about? His ulti... which hasnt been changed since release, but as soon as he gained popularity, people started crying. Look at Garen, his W got nerfed, his Q movement got nerfed, true damage on ulti vs 1 target which you cant choose. Suddenly people complain that he is OP because he became popular. Jinx: Dunno if anything changed on her in last 10 patches... she was played on worlds, crying about Jinx. Anivia: Nothing changed on her in a long time, Xpeke picked her on Worlds, suddenly threads about Anivia being OP.

People just cant admit that someone is more skilled than they are, so they blame champion.

YumaS2AstralNov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. If opponent is better than you, he will beat u no matter if he plays Yasuo or any other champion. Just look at Veigar- his buffs : meteor falls 0.25 sec faster, a bit more range on Q and AP gain on assists. What do people complain about? His ulti... which hasnt been changed since release, but as soon as he gained popularity, people started crying. Look at Garen, his W got nerfed, his Q movement got nerfed, true damage on ulti vs 1 target which you cant choose. Suddenly people complain that he is OP because he became popular. Jinx: Dunno if anything changed on her in last 10 patches... she was played on worlds, crying about Jinx. Anivia: Nothing changed on her in a long time, Xpeke picked her on Worlds, suddenly threads about Anivia being OP.

People just cant admit that someone is more skilled than they are, so they blame champion.

Yes, but I still think that the fact that Lee Sin has been popular for many years is a problem. I would just like to see more popular picks other than him, Elise , , Gragas , Kindred , and RekSai

alasarcherNov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but I still think that the fact that Lee Sin has been popular for many years is a problem. I would just like to see more popular picks other than him, , , , , and

Well Lee is popular because of flashy plays he can do. When did u see some jaw dropping plays from Reksai or Kindred or Vi.

But doing this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9jeFqgd5pw

That gives some satisfaction.

AxxlonNov 3, 20151 votes

The problem isn't being overpowered, the problem is their kits are overloaded/bloated/whatever-adjective-you-want-to-use-to-describe-having too many tools.

Thresh single-handedly has some of the best kill-tools of any support, therefore being better by default than 80% of all offensive supports in the entire game. And even then he STILL has a considerably high amount of defensive ability due to the fact that his lantern, which not only functions as a shield, pretty much makes his laning partner almost un-gankable.

Yasuo used to be balanced on released, then he was buffed and became ridiculous, then was nerfed again multiple upon multiple times, and yet people STILL don't like facing him. Fighter/Assassins have notoriously been the hardest characters to balance in the entire game, and part of it has to do with the fact that they have mobility, high damage, and just enough durability to not get themselves killed.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplayJul 18, 2015764 comments

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 1, 2015156 comments

GameplayApr 1, 2016606 comments

GameplayDec 21, 2014456 comments

3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 17, 2015114 comments

When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?

GameplayNov 30, 2014634 comments

More by YumaS2Astral

At this point, Riot might as well just make Ascension and Legend of the Poro King permanent

GameplayJun 28, 2017189 comments

How I see the 2016 season masteries

GameplayDec 28, 2015119 comments

Honestly, I think that Jinx's rockets should have their mana cost increased

GameplayOct 18, 2015229 comments

Tanks, Assassins, Supports, Mages, Marksmen; Long ago, the six classes lived thogether in harmony.

GameplayApr 12, 2016127 comments

The problem isn't mages being bad. Is that AP items are unsatisfying

GameplayAug 18, 2017138 comments

This amount of threads of people celebrating the fact that Riven is disabled makes me think...

GameplayJul 15, 2015179 comments