Why Karthus should be able to ult on "Untargetable" enemies

D2Vincent··7 votes·1,006 views

I was thinking a while ago, and I'd like to discuss this with the rest of the boards.

I'm a Karthus main, and I've noticed that a few of the posts about karthus's ult involve doing either %Health damage, or ignoring Untargetability, Invulnerability, or both. Personally, I'd think he should only get to do dmg to the Untargetable enemies, and I have a logical reasoning for this.

to help illustrate my reasoning, I'm going to use the Trading card game of Magic: The Gathering to help explain.

There are 3 particular mechanics in MTG that can protect a creature or make it "Untargetable" by spells and other abilities. And they are:

Shroud (Cannot be targeted by ANY spells and abilities) Hexproof (Cannot be targeted by spells and abilities your opponents control) Protection (Cannot be targeted by anything from a particular source, like Color, Creature type, Card type) Example: Protection from Blue, Protection from Creatures, and Protection from Instants

However, these do NOT help them from any card that affects the entire BOARD like the card "Wrath of God", which is a sorcery that costs 2 colorless mana and 2 white mana, and destroys all creatures on the board. All creatures will be destroyed despite whether or not they have the above 3 mechanics BECAUSE OF THIS REASON:

While the above Protection mechanics prevent the creature to be targeted by spells and abilities, Wrath of God doesn't follow the Target rule. Instead it follows the ALL rule, which goes around the Untargetability clause of Hexproof, Shroud, and Protection.

Using this knowledge, we can use this to apply logic between Karthus's Ult and anything that causes the user to be untargetable.

First off, let's look at Karthus's Ult:

R - Requiem: Karthus channels for 3 seconds and, upon completing the channel, deals magic damage to all enemy champions.

Karthus cannot move or deactivate after activating Requiem until channel ends or is interrupted.

I purposefully put All in Bold and Italics because of what I'm trying to get at here. A champ like Fizz with an ability that makes him untargetable means he cannot be TARGETED by Champion Abilities right? Well, I think Karthus's ult should follow the rules of Wrath of God and overrule the Untargetability clause

Also, I'd like to clarify that Untargetability and Invulnerability are 2 different things, Invulnerability is the inability to die due to damage to destruction, similar to the MTG Mechanic Indestructibility. Cards like Wrath of God cannot destroy cards that are Indestructible, and Karthus's R wouldn't work on champs that can make them Invulnerable (Kayle Ult, Zhonya's,Kindred ult, Bard Ult, etc)

9 Comments

Doctor Jarvis4 votes

I think you're right and Karthus should be able to hit untargetable enemies, but let me play devil's advocate here.

Sivir's Q doesn't target. In fact, a lot of champion abilities don't bother with targeting at all. Should they, on the basis of this argument, be able to hit Fizz while he's poled up?

D2Vincent2 votes

Just for the sake of Fizz and the fact that I REALLY hate fizz, I'd have to say yes :P

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Jarvis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZI6p3WP9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-06-21T01:52:04.863+0000)

I think you're right and Karthus should be able to hit untargetable enemies, but let me play devil's advocate here.

Sivir's Q doesn't target. In fact, a lot of champion abilities don't bother with targeting at all. Should they, on the basis of this argument, be able to hit Fizz while he's poled up?

isn't fizz also invulnerable?

Doctor Jarvis1 votes

"untargetable" in League essentially means invulnerable with benefits, but it doesn't necessarily need to be the case (well, I guess it does unless we want Riot to redo the game from the ground up with the understanding that invulnerability and untargetability are completely seperate concepts)

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Jarvis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZI6p3WP9,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2016-06-21T03:45:11.180+0000)

"untargetable" in League essentially means invulnerable with benefits, but it doesn't necessarily need to be the case (well, I guess it does unless we want Riot to redo the game from the ground up with the understanding that invulnerability and untargetability are completely seperate concepts)

yeah i feel you. the same way. dots still work on them. means that they are vulnerable to damage. they still should be hit by skillshots. i mean even if like 50% reduced damage.

Doctor Jarvis1 votes

Im trying to think of more champs with untargetable in their kits, help me out if you think of more: Ekko - probably closer to a Master Yi Q, but I think it still reads untargetable. ...is it really just Fizz?

Pupel1 votes

I don't like your magic argument cause i don't see how it relates but i agree his ult should hit untargetable enemies. For the cooldown it has i feel that its fair you need to be invulnerable to not take dammage from it

Knight Sky1 votes

to be honest I didnt read your post however If I was you id be more focused on getting karthus a buff then just an ult tweak lol

Sneakyy XD1 votes

^ All three of those.

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