The REAL nerf Irelia needs.

VoraciousX·Apr 15, 2018·1 votes·1,343 views

Her attack range is 200. No other top laner has that range that I can think of outside of ranged. Most melee top laners are either 125 or 175.

4 Comments

ArakadiaApr 15, 20183 votes

Thats not one of her issues though. If anything its a healthy feature.

VoraciousXApr 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Thats not one of her issues though. If anything its a healthy feature.

How is it a healthy feature that she can outrange almost, if not all melee champions with her auto attacks? This allows her to strike first, meaning she can proc press the attack faster, and she gets extra damage off her autos. It gives her a significant advantage over anyone with situational mobility(especially mobility that has a decent cooldown without a reset), and makes her very hard to run away from, considering she can still attack you consistently WHILE you're running away. Other melee top laners can't go in and out against her like she can them, at least not without taking a buttload of enhanced damage autos while doing it, and likely she'll have time to Q you again before you get far enough away. Unless you want people to buy boots first item against her anyways.

If you're saying it's healthy for her to have that because against ADCs it would be useful, then they should buff every melee champion's auto attack range to equal out. Perhaps every 175 range should go to 200, and every 125 should go to 150.

ArakadiaApr 15, 20183 votes

How is it a healthy feature that she can outrange almost, if not all melee champions with her auto attacks?

By 25 units? That almost nothing. Its not like she's going to be kiting them with her auto attacks.

This allows her to strike first, meaning she can proc press the attack faster, and she gets extra damage off her autos.

This lets her get her auto attack off first by less than a second sooner. Hardly meaningful.

It gives her a significant advantage over anyone with situational mobility(especially mobility that has a decent cooldown without a reset), and makes her very hard to run away from, considering she can still attack you consistently WHILE you're running away.

No. She can't attack you while your running away anymore than Darius can. She still has to stop to basic attack.

Other melee top laners can't go in and out against her like she can them, at least not without taking a buttload of enhanced damage autos while doing it, and likely she'll have time to Q you again before you get far enough away.

Other melee top laners have good base stats. And don't have counterplay strewn all throughout their kit.

Again your wrong in assuming Irelia is unique in this way. Many top laners can engage and disengage like her. Jayce and Riven are a few examples. Irelia does this in a much more fair way, considering she has to land her E on you if she wants to Q you than Q away.

Besides, Irelia's burst isn't like it used to be. Irelia will be pulling off bad trades if she jumps on you and jumps away before you respond. Her passive is literally nothing but sustained DPS that needs time to stack, her W is a self stun that requires time to charge for significant damage, and her damage is spread out among her spells much more than before.

Old Irelia had dash once, auto attack with W, and E them as her primary burst. New Irelia has her E which does pitiful damage, her passive which stacks over time and requires her to stay in long trades, she needs to land multiple Q's on the enemy to deal significant damage and sustain herself, she gives the enemy plenty of time during her W which slows down her whole combo. Even her ult has its damage split among two instances.

You can't tell me Irelia is stunning you, dashing in, and dashing away after having won a strong trade. If she's doing that, your either never dodging her E or she is going to deal so little damage because that means she isn't charging her passive, she isnt using W, she isn't getting second Q shots, and she isn't using her auto attacks which are important to her kit.

Unless you want people to buy boots first item against her anyways.

This literally wouldn't help.

If you're saying it's healthy for her to have that because against ADCs it would be useful, then they should buff every melee champion's auto attack range to equal out. Perhaps every 175 range should go to 200, and every 125 should go to 150.

Oh dear.

Okay so the reason Irelia should have it is three things. First, her niche is to be anti ADC. So they should not make every melee have 200 range, because not every melee is anti ADC. Second, its a small strength of hers that lets her be a more unique champion without breaking her. And third it makes thematic sense for her weapons and animations.

It isn't healthy to make every melee have 200 range, because not every melee is currently balanced around having 200 range. Imagine Mordekaiser with 200 basic attack range.

I have no idea why you think -25 basic attack range is the real nerf Irelia needs. That isn't an issue of hers. If anything her issues would be the innacurate E hitbox, or how unpunishing her Q is to use on a target that isn't marked. It would be a totally out of the blue nerf that makes her even more like the rest of the cast.

VoraciousXApr 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

By 25 units? That almost nothing. Its not like she's going to be kiting them with her auto attacks.

This lets her get her auto attack off first by less than a second sooner. Hardly meaningful.

No. She can't attack you while your running away anymore than Darius can. She still has to stop to basic attack.

Other melee top laners have good base stats. And don't have counterplay strewn all throughout their kit.

Again your wrong in assuming Irelia is unique in this way. Many top laners can engage and disengage like her. Jayce and Riven are a few examples. Irelia does this in a much more fair way, considering she has to land her E on you if she wants to Q you than Q away.

Besides, Irelia's burst isn't like it used to be. Irelia will be pulling off bad trades if she jumps on you and jumps away before you respond. Her passive is literally nothing but sustained DPS that needs time to stack, her W is a self stun that requires time to charge for significant damage, and her damage is spread out among her spells much more than before.

Old Irelia had dash once, auto attack with W, and E them as her primary burst. New Irelia has her E which does pitiful damage, her passive which stacks over time and requires her to stay in long trades, she needs to land multiple Q's on the enemy to deal significant damage and sustain herself, she gives the enemy plenty of time during her W which slows down her whole combo. Even her ult has its damage split among two instances.

You can't tell me Irelia is stunning you, dashing in, and dashing away after having won a strong trade. If she's doing that, your either never dodging her E or she is going to deal so little damage because that means she isn't charging her passive, she isnt using W, she isn't getting second Q shots, and she isn't using her auto attacks which are important to her kit.

This literally wouldn't help.

Oh dear.

Okay so the reason Irelia should have it is three things. First, her niche is to be anti ADC. So they should not make every melee have 200 range, because not every melee is anti ADC. Second, its a small strength of hers that lets her be a more unique champion without breaking her. And third it makes thematic sense for her weapons and animations.

It isn't healthy to make every melee have 200 range, because not every melee is currently balanced around having 200 range. Imagine Mordekaiser with 200 basic attack range.

I have no idea why you think -25 basic attack range is the real nerf Irelia needs. That isn't an issue of hers. If anything her issues would be the innacurate E hitbox, or how unpunishing her Q is to use on a target that isn't marked. It would be a totally out of the blue nerf that makes her even more like the rest of the cast.

I've been auto attacked 3 times on my way out from a trade with Irelia before, and she of course got auto attacks while in the middle of the fight. She runs PTA or Conqueror, which allows that first auto attack to put PTA in her favor(if she's running it), and if she isn't every one of those autos has true damage on it. Her E does NOT do pitiful damage(it does 80 MAGIC DAMAGE from one ability rank 1. This is higher than ALL of Riven's abilities rank 1, all of Yasuo's abilities rank 1, Darius' abilities rank 1, etc.). The ONLY champions who have similar base damage on an ability are duelists(Jax/Fiora), but their damage is physical, however Irelia's kit is FAR more teamfight oriented. I don't see how you could say her E does PITIFUL damage. It does GOOD damage. In fact I'd even suggest it's probably better to start E considering early on it has a similar cooldown to her Q.

As for Riven, she doesn't have disengage, unless you don't use an ability. You're not gonna just walk up to someone and smack them in the face with your combo as Riven. You're likely going to E to engage, then combo them, and walk out(because they're gonna be too low to want to fight back hopefully), at least early. Later on yeah, maybe you can E out, but in the laning phase there's not enough CDR to disengage after doing your combo unless you flash on them. Jayce, yeah, he has disengage built into his combo, and it's obnoxious, but it can be avoided.

And the basic attack range thing, it's 25 to 75. 75 attack range difference is a LOT against those that have short ranges. I mean Kai'Sa had a 500 attack range, and Vayne had a 50 attack range difference. Look at how much that did. They buffed Kai'Sa's range by, guess what? 25. Can't really say 25 range isn't a huge difference when a case has already been presented(I'm not saying Kai'Sa isn't too strong btw. She very well could be, as I think she has the greatest late game in the game, but THAT's why she could be op if anything, not because she got that 25 range buff).

As for Irelia being "anti ADC". She's about as anti-ADC as an assassin, albeit with a disarm and a shield breaking mechanic(but a lot more people have shields than ADCs and a lot more people auto attack than ADCs). She plays like an assassin, bursts like an assassin(if she reaches late game), she just doesn't build like one.

And finally, the other things you mentioned, the inaccurate hitbox of E, yeah that needs to be fixed, but that should be EXPECTED. That's not something that you'd just be like "Oh, guess we should nerf that IF SHE'S TOO STRONG". How unpunishing her Q is to use on a target that isn't marked, I'd agree. But what do you suggest to do in fixing that? Increase her Q cooldown to like 20 seconds rank 1? That would be too punishing. And a few seconds wouldn't really feel much different imo. If she's gonna have such a godlike late game, she needs a weaker early game. And I don't see how they could nerf her lategame in favor of making her early game better because she builds items that don't even work on her scalings, combined with her kit that is CLEARLY for being a late game teamfight styled kit. The only way they could nerf her lategame is by nerfing trinity force or Sterak's(which imo sterak's shouldn't exist anyways. It boosts trinity force's damage by an extra 50% of what it would normally be while also giving health and a shield). So they're forced to either nerf her early game, or nerf an item if she's too strong, because nerfing her scalings would be pretty pointless.