Now that we've had unique basic attack patterns, how about...

SaltyToplaneGoat··7 votes·830 views

... unique movement patterns?

Most of the champion roster either has two feet, levitates or is Rek'Sai or Skarner. However, there are two champions that have a special thing going for them: Hecarim and Sejuani . Both champs that somehow lack character in their kits. I mean, just look at Seju. All you think is "yepp, that's a tank!" and not "This is the badass general of the Winter's Claw riding into battle on her Warboar".

Hecarim is not as much affected, but his kit is pretty much "Crash into them and pretend you're an helicopter". Again, most I think when I see this champ in play is "Yes, that is a tank/bruiser." and not "This is the hoofed terror of the isles who will trample out enemies"

And the biggest problem with them is: none of them play like their physis would make one expect it.

Armed riders either want to impale their target upfront OR they want to rush by while slicing them up and then take a turn to attack from the other direction. But Heacrim is not really the one to talk about here, as he is mostly fine.

The bigger offender is actually Sejuani here. Her boar is quite gigantic. And quite fast too conidering it can dash. Makes sense - pigs can run faster than any human when they panic after all. But a pig like that, especially with a rider on top quite heavy (I do not expect a woman like Seju to be a light-weight. Muscles can weight a lot...) . Then why doesn't if FEEL heavy? It juist doesn't deliver this whole "riding on a giant beast" thematic. And yes, compared to the size of a "real" boar, Bristle is a gigantic beast.

Her passive should actually reflect this: a champion that can build up a terrfying amount of momentum while running in one direction, but one who also has some problem braking and taking turns at a certain point. Pretty much the mechanic of a Sion-Ult stuffed into the passive. Moving in a stright line builts momentum and grants bonus speed, but at some point you cannot turn properly anymore and stopping (by pressing the S key) causes you to walk further while rapidly slowing down.

Crushing into an enemy at maximal speed will be devastating tho - AND that's the feeling you are supposed to go for!

16 Comments

ZephyrDrake3 votes

that is the most pointless change one could to to Sej... she isn't someone who focuses on speed, she focuses on ice, continuous damage, disruption and general damage sponge. She is also a primary jungler so this change would do nothing for her other than take power away from her kit making her a weaker jungler and in lane it's not going to be of much use other than get back to lane faster.

You want an actual change to Sej how about making her more of a threat in prolonged fights, how about do more with her ice gimmick, how about giving her a bit more disruption. You know... something that she can actually use and not a change just for the sake of "uniqueness". Hell AurelionSol already pretty much does what you want

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

She focusses on stuff that every single generic tank would do. However, the goal is to make her less like every single generic tank. It's not just about making her unique - it's that the current iteration of her does the character zero justice, feels weird and disappinting to play (you just feel like a generic tank. lame. And I say this as someone who has mained Seju for two seasons...).

Sure, using the ice is also a good idea, but that is not really unique about her for we have plenty of ice users in the league. However, there is only one champ with a big-ass-boar and that's where we gotta start!

Also, this change might make her lane-ganks absolutley brutal. Coming in with a mini-sion ult every time? Doesn#t sound like a nerf to me...

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZAt8Af7E,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-04T02:00:56.088+0000)

She focusses on stuff that every single generic tank would do. However, the goal is to make her less like every single generic tank. It's not just about making her unique - it's that the current iteration of her does the character zero justice, feels weird and disappinting to play (you just feel like a generic tank. lame. And I say this as someone who has mained Seju for two seasons...).

Sure, using the ice is also a good idea, but that is not really unique about her for we have plenty of ice users in the league. However, there is only one champ with a big-ass-boar and that's where we gotta start!

Also, this change might make her lane-ganks absolutley brutal. Coming in with a mini-sion ult every time? Doesn#t sound like a nerf to me...

every generic tank? what tank focuses on ice related things? she isn't a damage dealer, never has been. She is a major disruptor, most tanks have one disrupting skill, two if they are lucky. Sej has her ult, Q and her Passive + E combo. That's more than your generic tank. She is able to deal a huge amounts of damage if she is left alone in fights due to her W. She whittles you down slowly but surely while providing excellent initiation, peel and disruption. Most tanks can only do one or two of those things.

This change does NOTHING for her other than give her a gimmick that AurelionSol already has! sorry but there goes your "uniqueness" right there, you FAIL! Stop trying to add "unique" things to a champion for the sake of making them "unique" she has plenty going for her that you could expand but you cannot see anything beyond "generic tank" which she is not. You focus on the strengths of champions to make them feel unique to each other not add dumb gimmicks that don't play well at all with her playstyle. Did you not learn anything about what happened to Mordekaiser? If you cannot even bother realizing all the strengths and all of the things she has going for her then sorry to say this but you are the LAST person qualified to talk about "this is what needs to be done to better this champion" and do not come saying "i am a main of this champion" because it's so obviously not true if all you see in her is "generic tank"

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

She focusses on continous damage, cc and soaking damage. the ice is literally just a cosmetic addon to make her like different from the other tanks tbh. She has AoE-CC, CC and A follow up slow. Wow. So unique. It's not like Amumu almost does the same thing with a little variation.

OH SORRY that I want a champ to be as badass as they could be. SORRY, that I want to play an actual character and not a random tank-token in my games. SORRY, that I'd rather see this game evolve instead of keeping it mudane as it is now.

Uniqueness is what we should strive for, but you seem to be too stupid to realize what kind of uniqueness I'm going after. Not the uniqueness of "oh this is a melee champ that goes bot now". That's way too technical. That's what ruined the morde rework pretty much.

No, Sejuani is unique because she had a badass boar. Therefore, I WANT TO PLAY THIS CHAMP AS IF I HAD A BADASS BOAR.

Also, how is having a unique variation of a Sion ult and a Deadman's plate as a passive suddenly an Aurelion Sol gimmic? You logic is so funamentally flawed I really question your intelligence right now...

Big Lincoln3 votes

she isn't a damage dealer, never has been.

complete horse shit.

sejuani is picked for her disruption and her damage. if her damage is bad, then she's outclassed by other tanks. it's half of the appeal of playing her, having damage that scales with your money invested in tankiness as opposed to taking that tankiness and just being a bigger meat shield (with a damage reduction spell or a literal shield.)

her having high damage output is the tradeoff for her lack of a defensive steroid beyond 25 armor late game. it needs to be a focus of her kit.

Abyssphere3 votes

I don't get the actual point of the Sejuani change. You make her feel more like she's charging into battle but she's still just... running into teams and engaging on them. You've not given her any actual function to separate her from other tanks, just a gimmick.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

It's not about changing what she does - it's about how she does it.

If you'd see a champion that rides on a massive beast you expect them to be heavy, with vast momentum that totally crushes their enemies, right?

Well, Sej doesn't really deliver that right now. Her "crushing" is a tiny "boop" and she doesn't feel heavy in any way, just slow.

I would have given her the ability to execute absolutely brutal laneganks on a regular basis. That's quite a lot for a change, no?

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZAt8Af7E,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-04-04T03:14:49.871+0000)

It's not about changing what she does - it's about how she does it.

If you'd see a champion that rides on a massive beast you expect them to be heavy, with vast momentum that totally crushes their enemies, right?

Well, Sej doesn't really deliver that right now. Her "crushing" is a tiny "boop" and she doesn't feel heavy in any way, just slow.

I would have given her the ability to execute absolutely brutal laneganks on a regular basis. That's quite a lot for a change, no?

But that's my point. Changing how a champion does something doesn't differentiate them at all, it's what they actually do that needs to be different. Players care a lot more about what the results of their champion's abilities are than how they use them and this is especially true in terms of strategic reasons to pick someone. Sejuani rides on a boar in a straight line and proceeds to engage a team fight with her CC, like every other tank ever. The only difference between her and Amumu is she has weirdly restricted movement patterns.

The great lane ganks is cool and all until you realise "How well does this jungler lane gank?" will never actually be taken into consideration when choosing a champion. It's not a niche a champion needs to have.

What Sejuani (and a lot of CC tanks) need is a unique output, not a unique input. Differentiating champions just by making them more complicated/restricted will only lead to them getting less popular, not more.

EDIT: I've not really made my point clear, sorry. Basically this might be a cool change from a thematic point of view but it shouldn't be painted as a way to differentiate the champion because it doesn't give her a niche or a strategic identity at all. It would just make her... feel more like a boar.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Uhh... that is the sole reason I play Sion tho. Ya can't ward lane ganks after all... do not underestimate that strategical advantage. That's and because he feels like an actual character to play and not like a generic tank.

Well, ofc we could build her kit around this unique momentum mechanic, so her skills change a little when she's on maximal speed. Also, maybe we should replace her W by something. Sure, this is her AoE jungle clear, but it is so goddamn LAME.

LankPants3 votes

I'm going to be honest here, I hate the idea of majorly reworking a champion just for the sake of majorly reworking a champion.

People enjoy champions kits and normally don't want to see a random arse gimmick thrown onto them in the name of diversity. This method of thinking has created some of the worst and most questionable reworks we've seen so far. Remember when Riot tried to add a pointless gimmick to Mord? How about Cass?

Sejuani players (myself included) play Sejuani because they like her kit. Your change is bad because it takes that kit and replaces a fair chunk of it with a pointless gimmick. When I play Sej I don't want to play Sion, I want to play Sejuani. Any changes to Sej should address this by working with what's already unique in her kit, most likely her HP scallings and playing off of those.

Chaos Milk Tea2 votes

If Sejuani builds up speed but is harder to control at high speeds, you will need the following mechanic: Click close by to sejuani causes her to not pick up much speed. This will allow her to traverse parts of the jungle while doing her basic clearing. Otherwise people may end up making some weird movements to get around without crashing into stuff.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I'd make it more depedant on "distance travelled in a straight line" - usually between jungle camps you don't cover that much way...

Critmaster Garen2 votes

so basically sions ult mixed with aurelions e.

sounds like a cool idea though. the charge damage should also scale with max health. this doesnt even have to replace her passive, but id put it somehow on her q as the ability is rather bland.

she could even get her cool original mechanic back, that when she has built full speed, she can ram through champion created terrain. shatter anivias wall for example. but only at full speed, which required her to travel a certain distance first to pick up steam.

could also have unique interactions with her ult. imagine she would throw her ult into the path at champions shes charging at, and then crash into them. there could be an extra effect, when she charges into frozen enemies at full speed.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Of course one could make this part of a major rework... especially her W could be easily replaced by something more awesome.

That terain shattering is a good idea tho. Generally, skills should be empowered even they are used at max speed - that would give her a solid idenity as the "steams up, crashes in and uses everything" initiator. Right now it's more like "boop them and then sit on them while your over-time-damage works".

I'd make it like this: Crushing into an enemy at full speed while they are ulted forcefully pushes them back, causing the ice around them to splitter and deal extra damage in an area.

Max health scaling is without question tho. HP is the stat that makes you heavy and fat - ofc a skill like that should scale with HP ^^

the Anarchit3cht1 votes

9/10 after you ult them you wouldnt want to push them out. you froze them in place for a reason why are you going to shove them away from your team. the other 1/10 of the time would be to save your self and you wouldnt be at max speed then. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Trynd Only Sorry1 votes

Build up momentum? item 3742

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