Why does marksmen/ADC have the cheapest itemization in the game??

Spoofghoul·Jan 13, 2018·90 votes·4,483 views

When they also scale the hardest into late game??

How does that make sense at all

Literally everyone has to make their ''play'' before they come online because they outscale you

But they barely need xp to scale at all they mostly need items and they get the cheapest items what the actual fuck Meanwhile fighters get the most expensive itemization followed by mages and tanks

Tanks are also bad off since their item value gets cut in halve later into the game since every derpmonkey has penetration and % damage and fighters suffer from this as well

And people wonder why whoever has the better botlane meta exists

This is just pure stupid

I wonder when the 3 supports with 2 adc's botlane meta comes around

You know, since you don't even need an actual income to get an adc corebuild anyway you can do it on a support budget ez pz

153 Comments

Pokemonred200Jan 13, 201834 votes

Because when lethality ADCs were meta, crit ADCs weren't performing very well compared to their armor pen counterparts, so they buffed crit.

Then they nerfed lethality.

They should honestly nerf the crit items (looking at you, item 3087 ) now that lethality ADCs aren't as oppressive as they once were.

KaìjuJan 13, 201822 votes

AD player, this is correct. Crit is too cheap.

AirKingNeoJan 13, 20184 votes

I would argue that the +10 AD buffs (two seperate 5 AD buffs) to IE and ER before the cost reduction are the real issue with Crit, and also Shiv is too strong and RFC shouldn't enhance Shiv at all.

Plastic 5 ADCJan 14, 20184 votes

Sure go ahead and nerf every crit item now, then something else gotta get buffed, cycle continues

wildfox99Jan 14, 201815 votes

{quoted}

Because when lethality ADCs were meta, crit ADCs weren't performing very well compared to their armor pen counterparts, so they buffed crit.

Then they nerfed lethality.

They should honestly nerf the crit items (looking at you, ) now that lethality ADCs aren't as oppressive as they once were.

i still get amazed when i play as mage (supposed to have clear wave) and then i see an ADC with shiv AA a minion wave and make it disappear before i can even cast an ability

while still dealing 400 bonus magic damage (520 with item 3094 ) for 2600g...but it is fine,i don't see nothing wrong if a class supposed to DPS can deal 1,3K+ damage with 1 auto,while mages (supposed to burst) have this 160 bonus damage ( item 3285 ) for only 3200g and can do this damage only hitting at least 2 skillshoots with CDs and mana cost

no need to tell me i'm being salty i already know it,but it's just too annoying having this difference

Critmaster GarenJan 14, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Because when lethality ADCs were meta, crit ADCs weren't performing very well compared to their armor pen counterparts, so they buffed crit.

Then they nerfed lethality.

They should honestly nerf the crit items (looking at you, ) now that lethality ADCs aren't as oppressive as they once were.

they should have nerfed lethality items for ranged champions specifically at the time instead of buffing crit items.

but someone at riot has an ignorant blind spot when comes to the range advantage.

thats why we see more and more range/melee splits removed from items and masteries, despite the damage it causes to game balance overall. it started with the removal of the ranged penalty on ghostblades active back when it was still a crit item. marksmen immediately made it to "their" item, despite the fact that it was always intended to be a melee carry specific item for champions like tryndamere and yi.

this season we have again the removal of fervor, which is replaced by press the attack that doesnt have a range/melee split either. neither do klepto or dark harvest. they also removed it from phase rush.

someone at riot doesnt understand that the only reason melee carries are viable next to ranged carries in other mobas is mechanics like dotas turn speeds. range/melee split on items and masteries was the only way so far to balance these mechanics for ranged and melee carries equally in league.

without such a penalty, ranged champions will always use the same mechanics to greater effect than melee champions. whoever it is at riot whos pushing for the removal of this split simply doesnt understand how much damage he causes, or is just ignorant to it and wants ranged carries to be overpowered on purpose.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 14, 20182 votes

It's ghostcrawler. Search for the old GD discussion between hashinshin and ghostcrawler, GC made it very clear what he thinks about melee champs in general.

RewtJan 13, 201815 votes

uhhh..... as a tank player is have to say no. Tanks have dirt cheap itemization.

Warmogs - 2850 Cinderhulk - 2500 Tabis - 1100 Thornmail - 2900 Spirits Visage - 2800 Adaptive Helm - 2800 Dead Mans Plate - 2900 Titanic Hydra - 3500

ADC attack speed itemization is cheap yes. But actually getting damage. Thats all really expensive.

And As a tank player i find that im rolling over damage dealers in the mid game. Its not till late game that i really start to feel their damage. And even at that point its too late. Im full build when they still need 1 and a half items.

And In reality. as a warwick player. when i see an ADC start to kill me i just chomp them. And because tanks are fucking broken i win the fight. And i get the same results out of Hecarim (Trinity, Steraks Full tank). and my Red Kayn build. (Warrior, Cleaver. Full tank)

KrytoricJan 14, 201815 votes

because getting double zeal and AS boots isnt damage like how getting health / armor is getting tank.

i seriously dont think people who complain about ADC's actually play this game

getting double zeal is cheap, you're not wrong, but zeal items are relatively useless without getting an item thats 500g more expensive than your most expensive armor item.

Also, if you're so mad about ADC's doing damage, here's a special item for you item 3047 POGGERS, thats more than 10% of an ADC's damage gone for 1100 gold! Wow! so expensive!

Also Cheapest itemization in the game? really?

ADC Items: item 3072 - 3700g item 3124 - 3600g (this one is obviously not for everyone) item 3139 - 3600g item 3031 - 3400g item 3508 - 3400g item 3153 - 3400g item 3156 - 3250g

Those are the items that are more expensive than EVERY armor item in the game.

item 3094 - 2600g item 3087 - 2600g item 3085 - 2600g item 3046 - 2600g item 3036 - 2600g item 3033 - 2600g

Now i totally get these ones are problematic for people, but realistically, these items dont do anything on their own without being in build, grabbing zeal items without IE is pointless, having a ton of crit and attack speed is good and all, but its useless without AD.

Same goes for armor pen, its good to have, can make tanks take a lot of damage, but without AD, its useless.

That's where ADC builds become much worse than tanks, think about a 2 item + boots ADC vs a 2 item + boots Tank.

So for example Jinx :

item 3031 - 70 AD - 20% crit - 3400g item 3087 - 35% AS - 30% crit - 5% MS - 60-160 magic damage - 2600g item 3006 - 35% AS - 45 MS 1100g

Total of 70 AD, 50% crit, 70% AS (1.30AS) 50% more crit damage and 60-160 magic damage for 7100g.

Now Ornn :

item 3025 - 65 Armor - 20% CD - 500 Mana - 100% base AD proc - 2700g item 3083 - 800 HP - 200% Base Health Regen - 25% Max HP every 5 seconds out of combat - 10% CD - 2850g item 3047 - 30 Armor - Block 10% of Auto Damage - 45 MS - 1100g

Total of 95 Armor, 500 Mana, 800 HP, 30% CD, 200% Base Regen, AoE slow, 100% base AD sheen proc, 25% hp regen, 10% blocked auto damage (64% reduced physical damage) for 6650g.

So for 3 items, its 450g cheaper, and you get way more out of them.

But ADC is broken [slayer-jinx-wink]

TotalJerkJan 14, 20189 votes

There's a reason that every high elo player and most of Reddit says the boards are trash and they don't come here anymore.

LordGeovanniJan 14, 20181 votes

fuks out of here counting mana value and hp5 value that dont help you in fighting and are largley wasted gold in fights (even though tanks are the only class with mana costs so high that they still need mana items). Not only is gold effeiceny on defensive tank items worse than gold effeicney on damage items it also drains into stats like mana cooldown reduction and hp5 but bearly any while adcs and mages can solve their mana problems in 1 item without killing themselves to do so. adcs dont get any drain stats to devalue their items at all. also nice warmogs when you locked out its passive seems legit. I also like how you put the weakest hypercarry up against a champion that doesnt even scale with items has a broken w and the rest of his kit is so underwhelming that they had buffed his w his only good skill from launch to where it is today.

KrytoricJan 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

fuks out of here counting mana value and hp5 value that dont help you in fighting and are largley wasted gold in fights (even though tanks are the only class with mana costs so high that they still need mana items). Not only is gold effeiceny on defensive tank items worse than gold effeicney on damage items it also drains into stats like mana cooldown reduction and hp5 but bearly any while adcs and mages can solve their mana problems in 1 item without killing themselves to do so. adcs dont get any drain stats to devalue their items at all. also nice warmogs when you locked out its passive seems legit. I also like how you put the weakest hypercarry up against a champion that doesnt even scale with items has a broken w and the rest of his kit is so underwhelming that they had buffed his w his only good skill from launch to where it is today.

CDR is a good thing to have LOL, and you said yourself in this post that they need mana, i was comparing what they get from their build, and warmogs passive is good in fights, you can use it to turn cause you regen like baron, and i used jinx as an example, pick any ADC you want, the stats on the items don't change, i was using an ADC that uses the "cheap" itemization, also any tank at those 3 items will have the warmog passive, go into a test game, this build with warmogs and the resolve tree, go to level 18 and you have the passive (that's what i did for both cause AS scales as well) also have you ever played ornn? that guys entire kit is CC and base / % damage, he can destroy people without any form of damage, his W is broken, but if you get hit by one ability you're pretty much fucked.

LordGeovanniJan 15, 20181 votes

cdr is a good stat but it becomes a drain stat when 5 of your 6 items have it and you cap out in 3 items but all 5 of the items have a good amount of its value put in cdr. and for tanks the Trancendence rune is useless because they dont have the ap ratios to use the ap even if they get it. Warmogs comes about too late for anyone that wants to build it because of the stupid gate that they put on it that is like if you told adcs that they couldnt use infinity edge's passive until they broke the 400 ad barrier or mages couldnt use the rabadons passive until the broke the 700 ap barrier Like i Said Orrn was buffed to the point where he is because his kit was so underwhelming on release and it still is with his W being the only exception Orrn's W doing max hp damage is broken he doesnt have damage from base damage he has damage soley from his w and passive interaction which are both Max hp damage that dont scale His Q damage sucks his E damage sucks his R damage super sucks but it can proc his passive. People were complaining that they couldnt maintain any lead with him because all of his spells scale with diffrent things and his E scaling is horrible Riot like i hear you we will make it so that he wins lane and keeps his lead and but we wont change his scaling.

KrytoricJan 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

cdr is a good stat but it becomes a drain stat when 5 of your 6 items have it and you cap out in 3 items but all 5 of the items have a good amount of its value put in cdr. and for tanks the Trancendence rune is useless because they dont have the ap ratios to use the ap even if they get it. Warmogs comes about too late for anyone that wants to build it because of the stupid gate that they put on it that is like if you told adcs that they couldnt use infinity edge's passive until they broke the 400 ad barrier or mages couldnt use the rabadons passive until the broke the 700 ap barrier Like i Said Orrn was buffed to the point where he is because his kit was so underwhelming on release and it still is with his W being the only exception Orrn's W doing max hp damage is broken he doesnt have damage from base damage he has damage soley from his w and passive interaction which are both Max hp damage that dont scale His Q damage sucks his E damage sucks his R damage super sucks but it can proc his passive. People were complaining that they couldnt maintain any lead with him because all of his spells scale with diffrent things and his E scaling is horrible Riot like i hear you we will make it so that he wins lane and keeps his lead and but we wont change his scaling.

i'm sorry but that warmogs compared to IE / Rabadons point might be the dumbest thing i've ever read, name one tank that doesn't hit 2750 HP, with the example build i gave, warmogs was literally the ONLY item that gave HP, and at level 18 Ornn has more than 2750, but since pretty much every tank item has HP, you'll get warmogs passive by the second item lol and the reason it has that "gate" is so that people don't rush it in laning phase, cause then they'll literally never have to back. Warmogs passive is insane all game because you can face tank anything, and be fine 10 seconds later without backing.

And Ornn's kit is honestly so oppressive,

His Q: Slow, Terrain and let's him get his E knock up off.

His W: % HP damage, a shield and he becomes immune to CC (i believe)

His E: Gap closer and a knock up

His Ult: a huge AoE slow, then a huge AoE knockup and applies his passive of making CC last longer.

that champ is one of the best picks because of how insanely strong his kit is and how well it synergizes with himself, he's a TANK that's why his damage should suck, but his damage doesn't suck at all, he can stay on you so easily and do a pretty insane stream of damage if you can combo it correctly, and it's not a hard combo at all.

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20181 votes

No tank hits 2750 hp before level 16 with just warmogs just like no adcs hits 400 ad with just ie or no mage hits 700 ap with just rabadons except veigar vs a boosted team. Tanks have to dedicate several hp items to even use Warmogs passive at level 13. No other class has that type of gating and every other class except enchanter supports who have simular have much more power . Warmogs is not comparable to IE or rabadons True its far weaker but it is comparable in the way that its tanks most powerful and expensive item but despite that you cant even choose to prioritize it. You can walk over orrns Q where the pillar is supposed to spawn out of his E knock up range while slowed by his q before his q pillar pops up and he is allowed to e not to mention he can walk toward you if you go in for e because of its long cast time. W allows him to be immune to cc for the duration making it the shittiest cc immunity in the game your w lasts for .75 seconds you get stunned for 1 second forget travel time to lets immagine that the w and stun starts the same exact time you still stuck in the stun for .25 seconds after you done with w for morgana what should be an outplay to her root you rooted for 2.25 seconds after your w done. E is horribly delayed so you can be knocked out of the rather short range the E has and if you use it as a gap closer with its long as f cooldown you cant use it as an excape (which is also hard because it has a long wind up and you can get cced out of it easily) you cant use it to engage and knock up unless your enemy is literally brain dead hugging walls for you to get them in a small combo for little damage. Slow telegraphed ult with no damage on it and you have nothing in your kit that allows you to go for building damage without being super wastefull because none of your skills scale with the same thing. Tanks are not tanks because their damage suck. tanks are tanks because they are supposed to be durable and short ranged with their damage which what they are and why their damage shouldnt be touched after you give them no range with long cooldown abilties and actually the only class in the game along with fighters that still have to do mana management. Tanks dont even get to keep durability but you still want them to do no damage too.

Irelia and ZelosJan 14, 20184 votes

OP is a Bruiser main, And he stated before that tanks are the next cheapest class

Bruisers get:

item 3078 - 3733g item 3053 - 3200g item 3074 or item 3748 - both 3500g

And these are just their core items. combinded cost of these is 10.433g + the ninja tabi thats 11.533 gold!

were as and Adc Can get: item 3006 - 1100g item 3087 - 2600g item 3094 - 2600g or ( item 3085 ) AND GET THIS item 3031 -3400g

ADC's needs combinded 9.700g!! Thats 4 items (including boots)

where the bruiser can get 4 items (including boost) aswell but needs 11.533gold!

AND the Adc has a support with them 24/7 so the get a lot more!

You compaired adc to tanks ??!?! it's the bruisers thats lacking here!

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20181 votes

but bruisers suffer because when ever tank items get nerfed they get hit too because riot forgets they share items same with ad items.

AzeranthJan 15, 20181 votes

Well, you're math is flawed for several reasons. Health and armor have a multiplicative relationship, health makes armor more efficient and vise versa. However, for and ADC, crit, attack speed AND ad are all multiplicative. This simple additional factor makes ADCs the most scaling parts of the game. You may be tempted to say "well one is useless without the other, and look how expensive this one is" but the fallacy of logic here, is that one makes the other more efficient. so, with how much drastically cheaper AS and Crit are, AD items like Maw and Bloodthirster become exponentially more gold efficient. Speaking of gold efficiency, looks at the Passives and actives on Maw and BT. Not only are they incredible efficient by themselves, they ALSO STACK. Have you noticed a theme here? Every ADC item stacks at an entire power higher, that's right not by two, but by three. And that isn't multiplicative, that's exponentially. It's raised to the power of 3.

1,2,4,8,16,32 for everyone else's synergized stat patterns (like health armor)

1,3,9,27,81, 243 for and ADC stat growth pattern.

Also, of course Ap items are cheaper, because with the exception of a CAPPED STAT, which is CDR, AP is purely linear.

Open a fucking book and do a little algebra why don't you?

KrytoricJan 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well, you're math is flawed for several reasons. Health and armor have a multiplicative relationship, health makes armor more efficient and vise versa. However, for and ADC, crit, attack speed AND ad are all multiplicative. This simple additional factor makes ADCs the most scaling parts of the game. You may be tempted to say "well one is useless without the other, and look how expensive this one is" but the fallacy of logic here, is that one makes the other more efficient. so, with how much drastically cheaper AS and Crit are, AD items like Maw and Bloodthirster become exponentially more gold efficient. Speaking of gold efficiency, looks at the Passives and actives on Maw and BT. Not only are they incredible efficient by themselves, they ALSO STACK. Have you noticed a theme here? Every ADC item stacks at an entire power higher, that's right not by two, but by three. And that isn't multiplicative, that's exponentially. It's raised to the power of 3.

1,2,4,8,16,32 for everyone else's synergized stat patterns (like health armor)

1,3,9,27,81, 243 for and ADC stat growth pattern.

Also, of course Ap items are cheaper, because with the exception of a CAPPED STAT, which is CDR, AP is purely linear.

Open a fucking book and do a little algebra why don't you?

"you are math is flawed" POGGERS nice english lad, and what im saying is true, build one armor item, if i have IE and 2 zeal items, you're going to tank everything i throw at you, look at how armor works right? then add HP on to that, a 3 item ADC does 200(ish) per CRIT if the target has 100 armor, and typically, you'll have 2k-2.5k HP, so thats 10-12 autos before you die, for the less than the amount of armor you'll have with 1 armor item.

And yeah thats true, they stack! but you cant get a BT shield if maw is being popped, unless somehow you get obliterated to like a quarter HP and everyone leaves you alone.

The problem with your argument, is that (as i said before) getting a zeal - or an IE - or some form of last whisper item is relatively useless without each other, EVERY class in the game has an item they can get, that gives them exactly what they need, BC / Tri for bruisers and juggernauts, literally any tank item you want to rush except warmogs for tanks, Mages get morello, assassins get youmuus or duskblade ( some adc's do too, and those are the problem ones imo) and ADC's get nothing, an IE on its own is useless unless you are lucky as hell, a Zeal item sucks ass unless you have AD, last whisper items are a joke unless you have AS and AD, that's just how it is, you can be mad about an ADC killing you all you want, but you're wrong, the fact that ADC needs 2-3 items to start being effective, when literally everyone else gets what they need from one item, im not saying ADC is weak in any way, but you can literally play the game and see that ADC's have a tough time against everyone cause everything in this game does as much or more damage as a carry, but for less money.

I dont need to "open a book" i play the fucking game, you should too some time.

AzeranthJan 16, 20181 votes

cause everything in this game does as much or more damage as a carry, but for less money

Yeah no. Mage items are about 1.5 times the cost of Zeal items, and the mages have significantly lower damages. Hyper carries are called hyper carries for a reason. They do more damage, they do it more consistently, and they do it longer. That's a fact of the game buddy. ADCs get more damage, more efficiency, and better items for a lower cost. I don't mind then having broken items, as long as those items are expensive enough to leave windows of opportunity for people who want to have more impact than participating in the 4 man dive on botlane

KrytoricJan 16, 20181 votes

you're literally ignoring what i'm saying about everything, especially about zeal items LOL, the zeal items are cheap, but if they weren't ADC would be unplayable, every item that mages get work well for them on their own, minus void staff, but they get way more pen, higher damage unless an adc has a good support, have you ever played against zoe? your "fact of the game" is so biased it hurts, i play mages, i play tanks, i play assassins, im stepping away from ADC for the reason that everything in this game gets a stupid amount of damage, and can do anything they want, as a tank you can 1v1 an adc under tower with the slightest lead, with assassins and mages, you can 1v1 - 1v2 the adc or adc and support before they have time to react.

AzeranthJan 16, 20181 votes

Wow, it's almost like the jet balancing points for an ADC are an in ability to 1v1 almost any circumstances and taking a while to be relevant in the game. It's almost like it should take an item and a half to feel relevant, and even then requiring your team's help :thinking:

FNC JinxJan 14, 201810 votes

Cause you tell me: What's the only class that can truly kill those busted tanks that also deal damage while having 9K HP and solo mages and fighters???

Only an ADC can truly kill those tanks that ruin the game. If you don't nerf those toxic tanks, you then need a class that can kill them, resulting in that class also becoming Toxic to anything else, and resulting the meta you see today. Who's gonna kill a 9K HP monster if it's not Vayne or Twitch??? Now, if tanks weren't busted, then suddenly other champions get a chance to shine, and all Crit Strike items would be nerfed for sure.

You think it's a coincidence that Jhin is garbage right now even if you build him full crit?? Cause he can't kill tanks. Riot's way to fix it: Make ADCs damage so high so they're able to kill those 9K HP damage dealing walls. And the squishy champions? Mages? Fighters?... of course they just explode with 2 auto attacks.

They just buffed Tanks by the way, and I ask again: What's the only class that can deal with them realistically??

Yeah, ADCs aren't the problem, but a symptom of the problem: Overpowered Tanks Wake up people.

WiegrafOfValorJan 14, 20187 votes

Actually if riot nerf damage across the board, heavly nerfing ADC damage, the meta would stabilize.

btw, ADCs were never meant to 1v1 tanks, that fallacy that sparked this whole mess, ADCs ain't supposed to 1v1 anyone, they need their team to survive and kill, who are supposed to kill tanks are fighters, specially Juggernauts.

DisembarkJan 14, 20182 votes

Depends on the ADC. Vayne and Lucian are MEANT to duel people.

Someone like Jinx/Sivir aren’t 1v1ing shit until 3.5 items.

AhristocatsJan 14, 20184 votes

tanks have 9k hp by the way

this boards is funny

wether it's ADC mains or bruiser mains, i will always laugh at what the boards give to me

Done25Jan 14, 20183 votes

I call bullshit. You know who else kills tanks? Fighters do. Udyr. Nasus. Trundle. Yi. Jarvan. Mundo. Olaf. They have too much sustain/durability for a tank to 1v1.

LordGeovanniJan 14, 20181 votes

I agree except i dont this was true when 1 item 3076 didnt exist (who even asked for that secret buff to adcs taking away the 15% damage reflection from item 3075 ) and 2 fighters were allowed to build lifesteal instead of off tank allowing them to outsustain in trades. but this build path is gone for everyone that isnt fiora yasuo and riven. and the build path is gone because of the uptime of mages spells and the reliablity of critical chance

Done25Jan 15, 20181 votes

Yea, Bramble Vest shouldn't have the anti-heal attribute. That should be reserved for the Thornmail upgrade.

Bramble Vest should be the equivalent of Bami's Cinder. It's a cheap item that tanks can buy to clear faster in the jungle. Though I suppose it's not that bad unless your name is Warwick, Olaf, or Mundo since you have to auto attack them in order to suffer the Wounds.

LordGeovanniJan 15, 20181 votes

It shouldnt be on thormails either that should be on its own item as they just used that to nerf thornmails itself

Done25Jan 15, 20181 votes

It has to be. Otherwise tanks have no counter to a Marksman being pumped with 4000 HP by Soraka/Redemption/Heal.

LordGeovanniJan 15, 20181 votes

Like i said it should have been on its own item as one of the few people who took thronmails every game before its change that loss is jarring. they took away 70% of the items damageversus and hardly comensated with better armor scaling for the damage maybe 10% more armor scaling . this made it less effective versus adcs as now they dont get hurt nearly as much and the thornmails cant even damage through their lifesteal any more even with the reduced healing. none the less soraka when soraka has to kill herself to heal anyone and should be focused before the adc any if you brawling or is useless if you burst the adc. soraka and other enchaters as far as i have seen have never been busted despite community reactions its just that since season 4 started enchanters have only been helping adcs and dont help anyone else and adcs are tuned to not need help for cases when they dont have enchanters

Done25Jan 15, 20181 votes

Oh don't worry. I fully agree with you. Another +10% armor to Thornmail's damage would be great. Especially after Sunfire's damage got gutted. Just don't forget they added Cold Steel while they were at it. (-15% attack speed upon being hit.)

Life Steal in general could probably use some kind of rework as well. I don't think anyone likes to see Jhin heal for 400 HP off a single minion.

LordGeovanniJan 17, 20181 votes

Nobody wants cold steel on Thornmails there are other options for that and all it does is save the people you want dieing to their own auto attacks. that change was literally more retarded that taking 20 armor off of the item and taking 15% damage reflection off of the item together. espeically with how much having cold steel on your item riot tries not to give you any stats because of that passive

Lock OnJan 13, 20189 votes

Have you ever committed to learning the marksman role, ever?

greekvandaLJan 13, 201817 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lock On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZALVBrdQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-13T22:47:49.329+0000)

Have you ever committed to learning the marksman role, ever?

It's not hard to rightclick and dodge a few core spells with sidesteps and flash. Even Pants picked up Vayne randomly and curbstomped in mid master elo with no adc experience considering his Tw winrate was 40%. And for the most part the games he lost was because he fucked up after getting fed mid game even tho he inted lane

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Jan 14, 20188 votes

But its not "a few core spells" you have to get aa's off while dodging every cc and 99% of other abilities and if you dont't space enemy dive/tank/bruiser perfectly you insta die and are useless. And wowowowow a challenger player can win on offrole in low elo compared to their main. That's like me saying I can go 50/0 as mid in silver or low gold and saying mid op.

Johnaldinho1017Jan 14, 20182 votes

First off a challenger doing that in masters is impressive because it's in masters you act like heplayed in gold. And I'd love to see you attempt to go 50/0 in low gold because I guarantee you wouldn't do it

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Jan 14, 20185 votes

Huge difference between chall and masters players.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 14, 20183 votes

Not enough to be completely offrole and just stomp them like i would do in silver. Also it matters which masters. Low? Then it is basically diamond. High masters? Then it's the usual challenger mmr anyways and shows how stupid adcs actually are.

Johnaldinho1017Jan 14, 20183 votes

There isn't a huge difference to where he would stop my friend hit low masters this year and played against imaqtpie playing illaoi top. Sure he ended up losing the game but qtpie started off the game 0/4 challenger players won't stomp their off role even in low masters. At least not consistently. And especially not a third role since pants is a jungle mid player usually.

HópeJan 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=toxicity creep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZALVBrdQ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-01-13T23:19:28.903+0000)

It's not hard to rightclick and dodge a few core spells with sidesteps and flash. Even Pants picked up Vayne randomly and curbstomped in mid master elo with no adc experience considering his Tw winrate was 40%. And for the most part the games he lost was because he fucked up after getting fed mid game even tho he inted lane

He asked you a question and you didnt answer. Also thats Anecdotal regarding Pants. I've picked up a new champ after never playing them and went 15-2.

My experience with a champion does not equal the same as everyone elses.

SaibboJan 14, 20182 votes

It's not hard to rightclick and dodge a few core spells with sidesteps and flash.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/294/220/644.0 Well if it's not hard why you don't try and share with us your result?

greekvandaLJan 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mark Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZALVBrdQ,comment-id=000400000003,timestamp=2018-01-14T23:27:45.971+0000)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/294/220/644.0 Well if it's not hard why you don't try and share with us your result?

wait till season starts. Got in line an onetrick Draven acc coming up for the first month of league.