Graves needs more than his removal of MR on his E

Forhonor321·Mar 30, 2017·47 votes·2,514 views

As much as I appreciate him getting nerfed on his E for the removal of MR, I just don't feel like it's enough. Yes, he'll be more weak to magic damage now but that doesn't really fix the problem of arguably his super healthy clears or insane damage output. He needs more of a meaningful nerf, like reducing the knockback distance on jungle monster a tiny bit early game or nerf his damage early game or just something. I'm sick of getting blown up by him when he's lvl 3 and proceeds to wreck the rest of my team until they win or until 20 where almost everyone on the team knows to throw in the towel while that one guy thinks he can carry us through this 19-3 game.

32 Comments

JackMcSnipeyzMar 30, 201718 votes

Just remove his fucking knockback on monster -Boom!

Graves isnt always full health. Graves cant 1v1 anyone because he isnt full health. Graves keeps his burst close range marksman playstyle without gutting his lane roles!

Dont nerf his damage/stats thats what keeps him viable outside of the jungle.

WinTheWarOnPantsMar 30, 20171 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] [slayer-pantheon-rainbows] [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

freeloader25Mar 30, 20172 votes

i really dont feel this would help. it would make him disappear even more than kindred but not bring him to a healthy state. why would anyone pick graves as laner when most of his damage is unreliable and easily blocked by minions or turrets? graves pretty much needs setup to get his dmg off or an enemy thats right next to a wall, thats another reason hes a better jungler than laner.

i think nerfing his dmg is the way to go. imo he has too much dps for how much burst he has (his auto attacks + e resets hurt a lot) so i'd nerf one of those 2. either target his e (more cd or less reset) to lower his dps or target his q/ultimate damage to lower his burst.

AnhartaminMar 30, 20177 votes

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MelledoneusMar 30, 201714 votes

Listen, pal, buddy, homeslice. Lee Sin is a cause we gave up on long ago. Don't waste your time on that one.

AnhartaminMar 30, 20177 votes

[deleted]

NymzoMar 31, 20171 votes

Tell that to Riot

Actually don't tell that, they already know, they just don't care because LC$

JoeMGMar 31, 20171 votes

I honestly feel if they nerfed the life steal on his W he would be in a much better state. He wouldn't be healthy enough for those level 2 and 3 cheese ganks which is his main issue.

MLDzXnRRRMar 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Just remove his fucking knockback on monster -Boom!

Graves isnt always full health. Graves cant 1v1 anyone because he isnt full health. Graves keeps his burst close range marksman playstyle without gutting his lane roles!

Dont nerf his damage/stats thats what keeps him viable outside of the jungle.

What lane roles? He was played top when he was extremely broken and that's it. Bot - loses game, mid - same.

Hyrum GraffMar 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What lane roles? He was played top when he was extremely broken and that's it. Bot - loses game, mid - same.

On the flip side, if nerfing the knockback leaves him underpowered in the jungle, maybe he could be buffed in a way that affects his laning, too.

PapaGreg21Mar 30, 20171 votes

Riot will never do this. I have played league for many years and whenever something is clear and obvious to the community, Riot has never accepted it and agreed. They will instead probably do something to his cooldown levels that will make him 1 % worse.

MelledoneusMar 30, 20179 votes

How about his autos now count as AoE damage instead of single target because they're A FUCKING AOE?

YoungSirJ0eyMar 30, 20173 votes

They aren't though. AoE is one entity that can hit multiple targets. Graves' autos are four entities that can each hit one target. They shouldn't count as AoE. Besides, given that basically no pro players build Death's Dance on him, it's not even slightly the problem.

dolphinosplash24Mar 30, 20177 votes

Hussssssh. See how it affects graves win rate. Unless you are the pbe you have no idea how affective graves nerf is.

Forhonor321Mar 30, 20174 votes

I know, I should wait, but honestly I can't and I'm just calling it now. Just because he'll be weaker to magic damage when he uses his E it's not going to effect how ridiculous his clear speed is, how healthy it is, or how insane his damage is very early on.

dolphinosplash24Mar 30, 20173 votes

He won't be WEAKER to magic damage while using his e,Magic damage will be the same whether he e's or not. Im sorry it just bugged me ok

Forhonor321Mar 30, 20172 votes

He won't be WEAKER to magic damage while using his e,Magic damage will be the same whether he e's or not.

Ok, fair enough. Poor wording on my part.

Sweet ButtMar 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

He won't be WEAKER to magic damage while using his e,Magic damage will be the same whether he e's or not. Im sorry it just bugged me ok

I cringed :d Clorox Bleach recommended after each meal

TorgalMar 30, 20175 votes

Give him back his old kit please.

I enjoyed playing him as an ADC. Now, you can't play him ADC.

LyingOnLineMar 30, 20173 votes

Frankly, I'd rather see the removal of the armor.

WinTheWarOnPantsMar 30, 20171 votes

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-30381-Is-it-too-much-to-ask-for-both-zyJv.gif

SalronMar 30, 20172 votes

I'd rather leave his jungle clear alone and focus on his ability to facetank damage while killing people at alarming rates Small damage nerfs also slow his clear

Entheos GeonMar 30, 20171 votes

I'll take what I can get for now.

Zane ZephyrMar 30, 20171 votes

They said they were considering lowering the base damage on his Q and raising the scaling.

SkorchMar 30, 20171 votes

I dont know how long you have been playing. But EVERY nerf is somewhat meaningful. It has a very good chance of dropping his winrate enough.

NA DarklarikMar 30, 20171 votes

I think hes biggest strength is being able to clear with little damage. Remove the knock-back on jungle monsters and be done with it.

BabeisBaeMar 30, 20171 votes

I don't actually think you understand how much of a nerf this is. Let's put it this way, syndra could barely half health graves, now she one shot him. Same with most mages. I think it is fine because mid to late game, hes not gonna be the monster he is on live right now, and can actually be dealt with. The problem has always been the fact he gets 400 AD as a tank. Hes just not going to get that anymore, and that is good. It may start forcing him to build a bit tankier, or it might force him to actually think in fights.

I just think you are really underplaying this nerf. It is so much MR lost. And he is going to be one shot by most AP's now in team fights instead of lasting through it while dealing insane damage.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 30, 20171 votes

I agree. They should remove True Grit entirely.

Here's why: Graves' rework frontloads his damage, making him very bursty. So he's basically a ranged assassin now. People may not like the idea, but it's not inherently flawed; Nidalee and Ahri are sort of those, and aren't too problematic anymore (I know everyone's circlejerking about Ahri rn, I'm talking about from a design perspective, not a balance one. Also I know she's a kite mage now). The problem comes when you also give that ranged assassin tank stats for sticking into extended fights, making them way better at teamfighting than they ever should be. Hell, any assassin who's allowed tank stats becomes overpowered (Hi Ekko and Fizz). By removing True Grit entirely, you remove that problem, and you also take away a secondary problem: His clear.

Yes, his clear. Everyone thinks his knockback is causing his great clear, but his knockback is only part of the problem, and True Grit is the other part. Go into Practice Tool and try clearing with Graves. Then do it again, but let your True Grit stacks reset between camps. You'll take shit tons of damage. Removing his MR only doesn't affect this, as Gromp is the only camp that deals magic damage, but taking it away entirely will make his clear a lot less healthy, but not so bad that he can't even full clear effectively, something even Taric can do (believe me, I tried).

Of course, I'm not saying that this alone would put Graves in a good spot. It would probably gut him, if he isn't also given compensation buffs, but what it would do is make him balanceable, and I'm pretty sure that's what Riot wants to do here.

DolasaurMar 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Also I know she's a kite mage now.

! I've been reading through comments in the Ahri hate threads waiting for someone to mention that. 50 mentions of "there's literally no reason Ahri should have movespeed on Q, just give her back Charm damage amplification" later, I gave up.

4NoxiousHoursMar 31, 20171 votes

Get rid of graves jungle and put him back in bot lane. PERIOD.

Jaygo41Mar 31, 20171 votes

I mean honestly all that will happen is Maw will become a more core item for him, and less ppl will take CDR blues and more ppl will take scaling MR

JoeMGMar 31, 20171 votes

He really doesn't need the knockback. Either nerf the passive or nerf his bases a bit could also work. He scales well enough he just needs a weaker first clear.