"Just Kite Garen"

luckmallory··5 votes·1,381 views

Garen

item 3071 item 3742 item 3009 item 3031 item 3035 item 3065

Sprints at you with 600 move speed and 220 of each resist from two items with a 30 percent damage reduction

Ok guys ill just use my 900 forms of cc to lock him down infinitely until we can finally kill him meanwhile the rest of their team manhandles us because all of our CC was wasted on Garen. Unless you are 40% CDR thresh Garen is definitely getting to your carry.

While I hate playing against new garen i do like what riot did and they did make him stronger. My only complaint is that he is just too naturally tanky while building full damage. I wouldn't care about the previously stated things if he didnt get ridiculous tank from two items. Dude builds a spirit visage and dead mans and has 3800 health and 220 of each resistance. Meanwhile he builds black cleaver IE and LW and his E does over 1000 damage and can crit you. Not to mention his crazy ass ult that does the same consistent damage regardless of what you build.

Here are my proposed changes and remember they are my opinion and I am still working them out so suggestions would be appreciated.

Passive- This is fine, I honestly have no problem with this and dont want to see his "I can lane forever" mentality changed

Q- Damage is fine but the Silence should be increased to 2 seconds

W- I have so many ideas for this. Maybe make the active double his bonuses for the duration? I feel like it just gives too much unnecessary tank. They removed Jarvan's free armor on his E because of this. I know jarvan has a great gap closer and lockdown and is different but it still applies. I like the idea of stacking Armor and MR throughout the game but the active is way to strong for his damage builds.

E- Keep everything the same except make his E slow him when hitting multiple enemies. This way he can still destroy people Solo but cant just spin all over the ADC and the support gets trashed too and has to watch. There are other changes ive considered. My other one would be to make the damage ramp up. Every two ticks the damage would increase with the scaling ratio as well. So if you get 3 ticks it doesnt do much damage but if you get 9 it does insane amounts of damage. This allows the other team some time to at least try and peel you off because a Q 2-3 ticks of judgement and an ult can easily kill a Squishy. Now he gets rewarded for staying on top of a target for longer and would even consider the overall damage being more if all ticks go off. Its the same thing as darius. He doesnt unlock all of his damage unless he stays on a target for at least a little bit.

R- Make it physical damage already. Im so sick of playing darius or one of my mains top and either i build armor and his ult nukes me or MR and the rest of his kit nukes me. He gets too much mixed damage from one ability. Making it physical damage would allow him to be built against. If i build full tank garen should not be able to just auto execute me when i get to 30 percent HP because i was forced to build armor to survive the lane. I know some of you are going to say ohhh Darius can execute anyone and you cant build against that. My argument for that is Darius does not have a basic ability that has the potential to do 1000 + damage while building pretty tanky. He doesn't have a movespeed buff like garen and must stay pretty close to the target for a while to get it. True damage on the villain is still fine and adds a unique aspect to the game.

I'm open to ideas as these are just some I have thought up. I have other ideas as well.

Thanks for reading and may Garen have mercy on your asshole

29 Comments

Sasogwa5 votes

and then he takes 1 slow and suddenly he doesn't run as fast. And then he gets 1 hardcc and since he lost tenacity on W he cries. PS : 220 MR with only a SV? sure

luckmallory2 votes

Just finished a game with him. Did the exact build as above with tank runes and mastries. I had 231 Armor and 185 MR. So a little more armor and a little less MR. My argument still stands

Mathbalnase3 votes

Except for the parts that were blatant lies, the parts that ignore game mechanics, and the parts that are wholesale fabrications, sure.

luckmallory1 votes

You named 0 of them lol good argument 10/10 would read again

Critmaster Garen3 votes

item 3143 item 3025 item 3092 item 3153 item 3800 item 3023 item 3022 item 3116

sprints at 600 movement speed to get cockblocked by one of these items.

there are items with slows attached for basically any champion type in the game. stop complaining and adjust your build. thats not even counting innate kiting abilities of champions themselves.

literally just items that stop him in his tracks.

luckmallory1 votes

Thats the point, he has too much damage with Tank. Sure you can kite him all day but thats his job. If gets to you, he auto kills you. If not you spend the team fight desperately trying to keep him off the carry and your cc and time is wasted on that while Garen's team craps on yours. I dont really care that much that he can one shot carries as much as him building damage and still being retarded tanky and forcing the team to blow all CC to stop him and/or time. He has a yi jungle and kat mid. Choose wisely who you cc. Use it all on garen and they ace your team, use it on one of them, your carry instantly dies. Not much can be done and we arent even considering buffs he receives from team mates such as active item movespeed sivir ult lulu ult MS zilean MS. If the team isnt half retarded and has a decent team comp for garen, your carry will die every single fight.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Thats the point, he has too much damage with Tank. Sure you can kite him all day but thats his job. If gets to you, he auto kills you. If not you spend the team fight desperately trying to keep him off the carry and your cc and time is wasted on that while Garen's team craps on yours. I dont really care that much that he can one shot carries as much as him building damage and still being retarded tanky and forcing the team to blow all CC to stop him and/or time. He has a yi jungle and kat mid. Choose wisely who you cc. Use it all on garen and they ace your team, use it on one of them, your carry instantly dies. Not much can be done and we arent even considering buffs he receives from team mates such as active item movespeed sivir ult lulu ult MS zilean MS. If the team isnt half retarded and has a decent team comp for garen, your carry will die every single fight.

he IS extremely kitable. in return he deals almost ad carry damage with a couple damage items, and becomes really tanky with a couple defensive items.

its also to note that part of why hes to tanky upfront is, because he doesnt get to have in combat sustain like most other fighters. lifesteal items are really bad for him, considering their dependency on auto attacks.

what you dont see is a jax or an ad carry healing 4000 health in a fight off the damage they deal with lifesteal. garen gets additional tankyness off base stats and his kit instead. but doesnt get additional sustain that helps him through a fight.

even nasus gets a ton of in combat sustain from his passive and his ult, that heals him additionaly while hes engaged in a fight.

being tanky and dealing damage in melee is his entire deal. you take one of those only 2 strenghts away and he sucks.

luckmallory2 votes

People seem to forget that what it sounds like on paper is not what actually happens in game. A garen with swift boots and dead mans is not easy to kite.

Also we are assuming the support stays and just spends the whole fight peeling garen off of you which never happens unless you are duoing. Make his Active on his W give him the tenacity but not the damage reduction. Now hes balanced.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

People seem to forget that what it sounds like on paper is not what actually happens in game. A garen with swift boots and dead mans is not easy to kite.

Also we are assuming the support stays and just spends the whole fight peeling garen off of you which never happens unless you are duoing. Make his Active on his W give him the tenacity but not the damage reduction. Now hes balanced.

a garen with dead mans plate and swiftness boots is easy to kite unless you let him flank you through an unwarded area and realize hes there when hes already dismantling your backline.

if he actually has to run at you and your team and you see him coming it should be easy to lock him out of a fight.

if the support is not peeling in a fight hes not doing his job.

and even then the items i listed up there can still peel him on their own. off champions like ad carries, other fighters or assassins and mages.

luckmallory1 votes

Except none of this is true lol Champion.gg

Garen has a 61 percent win rate with Dead Man's in Plat +

Amount of mid laners/adc's killed without dead man's after 20 min average= 1.8

The same statistic but with dead mans- 4.4

Stats dont lie, he isn't easy to kite once he has dead mans

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Except none of this is true lol Champion.gg

Garen has a 61 percent win rate with Dead Man's in Plat +

Amount of mid laners/adc's killed without dead man's after 20 min average= 1.8

The same statistic but with dead mans- 4.4

Stats dont lie, he isn't easy to kite once he has dead mans

its not 61% winrate. its 61% of the games that were won with a garen in the team. garens actual winrate is between 53% and 55%.

what does the statistic say about cleaver that is bought by him in close to 100% of the cases?

luckmallory1 votes

All of these statistics are taken from Plat+ and no Garen has a 61 percent win rate when he builds Dead Man's Plate. All legitimate stats. One item tripling his carry kills per game. Either the item needs a nerf or Garen does because it invalidates his weakness which is being kited

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

All of these statistics are taken from Plat+ and no Garen has a 61 percent win rate when he builds Dead Man's Plate. All legitimate stats. One item tripling his carry kills per game. Either the item needs a nerf or Garen does because it invalidates his weakness which is being kited

his highest win% core build has dead mans plate in it and almost 57% winrate. and its not mentioning the division. i dont know where youre pulling the statistics from. at least give a link.

[{quoted}](name=PT Waluigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z49AvOE3,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-31T17:25:57.273+0000)

Plus his W which reduces damage. You can push in, press W, do damage, escape with Q, (hopefully) escape, hp regen and do it all over again

meanwhile other champs heal up on a jungle camp or creepwave with lifesteal then go back in.

it takes time for garens passive to activate, and then it takes more time to regenerate. you have to be out of combat for 15 seconds to regenerate 20% of your health. almsot 30 seconds to regenerate 50% of your health.

luckmallory1 votes

This is all from Plat+. It does not take into account anything below. That is why.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

This is all from Plat+. It does not take into account anything below. That is why.

then were is the link? lolking says his winrate is at 54.5% across all regions in plat right now.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/garen&region=all&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=platinum#statistics

otherwise the counter to garen with dead mans plate is the same as the counter to garen. its movement speed falls off with crowd control. i actually suspect it less strong in direct fights, but because of the increased ability to roam.

luckmallory1 votes

That includes every build

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

That includes every build

the highest win % build is at almost 57%. means 57% of the garens who have won games in plat and above have used this build.

http://champion.gg/champion/Garen/Top

of course the number for dead mans plate is high. it would almost be at 100% for cleaver.

luckmallory1 votes

Regardless those are still insanely high win rates especially for how much his play rate has increased.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Regardless those are still insanely high win rates especially for how much his play rate has increased.

his playrate increased to 14%. thats normal for a champion.

not like vayne or jinx who are sitting at 50% and 30% or lee who has been sitting at 30% play rate for almost 2 years.

Woook3r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z49AvOE3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-31T16:52:53.916+0000)

item 3143 item 3025 item 3092 item 3153 item 3800 item 3023 item 3022 item 3116

sprints at 600 movement speed to get cockblocked by one of these items.

there are items with slows attached for basically any champion type in the game. stop complaining and adjust your build. thats not even counting innate kiting abilities of champions themselves.

literally just items that stop him in his tracks.

Dont even put frozen mallet on this page. Its garbage right now. If they do anything with the ad item rework i hope they give this one a nice refactoring.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Dont even put frozen mallet on this page. Its garbage right now. If they do anything with the ad item rework i hope they give this one a nice refactoring.

it has an uncomfortable build path, but stat wise its far from garbage.

Woook3r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z49AvOE3,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-31T19:40:40.184+0000)

it has an uncomfortable build path, but stat wise its far from garbage.

700 hp on the ad carry...who has the least armor in the game....its crap statwise..at least for the characters who are interested in kiting.

PT Waluigi2 votes

If you build him tanky...his hp regen. The biggest I had was 296.4 hp regen per second plus passive and items

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=PT Waluigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z49AvOE3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-31T17:17:25.948+0000)

If you build him tanky...his hp regen. The biggest I had was 296.4 hp regen per second plus passive and items

out of combat. at lvl 16.

his passive does give him additional sustain through a fight. items like hydra, bt or bork are a gigantic factor. and make a champion much more tanky than he actually looks like.

garen is just getting part of this tankyness upfront.

PT Waluigi1 votes

Plus his W which reduces damage. You can push in, press W, do damage, escape with Q, (hopefully) escape, hp regen and do it all over again

General Esdeath 2 votes

-Complains about new Garen and CC -Forgets old Garen had 30% tenacity on his W

luckmallory2 votes

You are talking to a long time garen player. I know he had tenacity before, however he got the bonus armor and MR AND the 30 percent reduced damage. Also his E did much less damage, dead mans didnt exist, and his ult didnt have the possibility of doing true damage. If garen reaches your carry with his ult up they are 100 percent dead. It wasnt like that before the rework because dead mans wasnt there and his damage wasnt as high as it is now.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Luck, my man, old Garen also had the reduced damage. All they added was the stacking.

luckmallory1 votes

Yes i know he had the reduced damage you read my comment incorrectly. Before when he had the tenacity he needed it to get close to people. He doesnt need it now. Also the stacking Armor and MR is much stronger than the previous passive as now he gets the insane bonus's while still building damage. Before he had to build tank. Dead mans removes his need for tenacity and makes his new found damage in combo with it insane.

Garen pre rework Q + E Combo with the build in my original post does 1340-2960 depending on how much he crits with his ult doing magic damage

Garen post rework Q+ E Combo with the build in my original post 2160-4480 depending on crits. His damage is the problem in combo with dead mans. Dead mans removes his ability to need the tenacity make his new damage pretty stupid. also his ult can possibly do true damage now.

also if he really wants he can just build merc treads and have the previous tenacity

He needs a nerf

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