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Critical System Revamp Concept / Marksmen Item Diversity

Stacona··7 votes·772 views

What I am going to do here is basically create changes to the crit system to be more sustain damage based rather than bursty luck based (still be the same "RNG" system) this favours marksmen the most which crit chance is really only bought for one class of champions (plus it makes yi and tryndamere less overwhelming against certain players).

The other side of the ideas is make changes to items to create for individually and customization (aka diversifying builds) rather than building items because "it has the best stats" you will build items with certain class of items having the same price points and picking what you want or need the most at the time and for that game in particular and there is no "best" item. Marksmen items are divided into categories you get every game which are the attack speed complimentary item, the health sustain item, the high damage item, and the penetration item (this will remain as only Last Whisper), and defensive items are there too but that is not a marksmen thing since any class can buy them.

Also cheaper B.F. Sword like the Needlessly Large Rod change, gold value will remain identical, but this will allow for smoother and less clunky builds for B.F. Sword items and allow for more B.F. Sword items in the future.

Critical Strike Damage Multiplier: Reduced to 150% from 200%; Infinity Edge will grant +25% crit damage, so 175% instead of 250%

Yasuo: Will be 10% decreased crit damage, 25% reduced crit damage for his Q crits (this is the same function as now); so Yasuo crits will be 135% crit damage and 112.5% crit damage for Q- infinity edge damage on Yasuo being 157.5% and 131.25% for Q crits [again the crit damage reductions are still the same as LIVE cause that is how Yasuo works for having his double crit chance passive]

Ashe: Crit damage multiplier to +0.5% per 1% crit chance from +1% per 1% crit damage; Infinity Edge increases the value to 0.75% per 1% crit chance; this keeps Ashe's damage the same as the other marksmen crit damages on average

B.F. Sword (1250g) Statistics: +40 Attack Damage

Cloak of Agility (800g): Recipe: Brawler's Gloves (400g) + 400g

Statistics: +25% Critical Strike Chance

Brawler's Gloves (400g): Statistics: +12% Critical Strike Chance

Avarice Blade (800g): Recipe: Brawler's Gloves (400g) + 400g

Statistics: +15% Critical Strike Chance +UNIQUE Passive: 3 gold per 10 seconds +UNIQUE Passive: 2 gold per execute

Zeal (1100g) Recipe: Dagger (450g) + Brawler's Gloves (400g) + 250g

Statistics: +20% Attack Speed +20% Critical Strike Chance +5% Movement Speed

Rusted Rapier (700g): Recipe: Long Sword (360g) + 340g

Statistics: +10 Attack Damage +UNIQUE Passive: 10% Cooldown Reduction

The Brutalizer (1337g): Recipe: Rusted Rapier (700g) + Long Sword (360g) + 277g

Statistics: +25 Attack Damage +UNIQUE Passive: 10% Cooldown Reduction +UNIQUE Passive: 10 Armor Penetration

2500 gold tier, complimentary attack speed items:

Runaan's Hurricane (Ranged Only) (2500g): Recipe: Recurve Bow (1100g) + Dagger (450g) + Dagger (450g) + 500g

Statistics: +70% Attack Speed +UNIQUE Passive: Deal 10 bonus physical damage on-hit. +UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks fire minor bolts at 2 nearby targets, each dealing 50% AD physical damage and applying on-hit effects. These bolts can critically strike.

Statikk Shiv (2500g): Recipe: Zeal (1100g) + Avarice Blade (800g) + 600g

Statistics: +40% Attack Speed +40% Critical Strike Chance +6% Movement Speed +UNIQUE Passive: Ignore all unit collision. +UNIQUE Passive: Moving and attacking builds Static Charges. At 100 charges, your next attack expends the charges to deal 125 magic damage to up to 4 targets. This magic damage can critically strike.

Phantom Dancer (2500g): Recipe: Zeal (1100g) + Cloak of Agility (800g) + 600g

Statistics: +35% Attack Speed +45% Critical Strike Chance +5% Movement Speed +UNIQUE Passive: Ignore all unit collision. +UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal (+10% attack damage) as bonus physical damage on-hit. This damage can critically strike.

Zephyr (2500g): Recipe: Stinger (1250g) + Cloak of Agility (800g) + 450g

Statistics: +40% Attack Speed +10% Cooldown Reduction +25% Critical Strike Chance +10% Movement Speed +UNIQUE Passive: Ignore all unit collision. +UNIQUE Passive - Tenacity: Reduce the duration of disables by 35%.

Frost Bow (Ranged Only) (2500g): Recipe: Recurve Bow (1100g) + Zeal (1100g) + 300g

Statistics: +50% Attack Speed +30% Critical Strike Chance +5% Movement Speed +UNIQUE Passice: Deal 10 bonus physical damage on-hit. +UNIQUE Passive - Frost: Basic attacks slow their targets by 5% for 1.5 seconds. If the attack critically strikes then it slows its target by 40% for 1.5 seconds. +UNIQUE Active - Icy Trail: Cleanse the Frost on all currently frosted targets and create a large ice field on the ground around them for 20 seconds causing yourself to move 30% faster on these ice fields, while Icy Trail is on cooldown Frost will be disabled (45 seconds cooldown). [ice field radius: 800 units]

3200 gold tier, health sustain items:

Blade of the Ruined King (3200g): Recipe: Bilgewater Cutlass (1400g) + Recurve Bow (1100g) + 700g

Statistics: +25 Attack Damage +40% Attack Speed +10% Life Steal +UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 8% of the target's current health (min 10) in bonus on-hit physical damage (max 60 vs. minions and monsters). +UNIQUE Active: Deal 10% of target champion's maximum health (min 100) as physical damage, get healed for the same amount while stealing 25% of the target's movement speed for 3 seconds. (90 seconds cooldown). [550 units range]

Essence Reaver (3200g): Recipe: B.F. Sword (1250g) + Vampiric Scepter (800g) + Rusted Rapier (700g) + 450g

Statistics: +80 Attack Damage +20% Cooldown Reduction +UNIQUE Passive: Dealing physical damage restores between 6% and 12% of the physical damage dealt as health, based on your missing health. +UNIQUE Passive: Dealing physical damage restores between 2% and 8% of the physical damage dealt as mana, based on your missing mana.

The Bloodthirster (3200g): Recipe: B.F. Sword (1250g) + Vampiric Scepter (800g) + Vampiric Scepter (800g) + 350g

Statistics: +70 Attack Damage +UNIQUE Passive: 20% Life Steal +UNIQUE Passive: Your life steal overheals you, converting the excess healing into a shield that absorbs up to 50-350 damage and decays when out of combat for 25 seconds.

The Blood Egg (3200g): Recipe: Needlessly Large Rod (1250g) + Recurve Bow (1100g) + 850g

Statistics: +80 Ability Power +50% Attack Speed +UNIQUE Passive: All magic damage dealt from basic attacks restore 20% of the magic damage dealt as health. +UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 8% of the target's current health (min 10) in bonus on-hit magical damage (max 60 vs. minions and monsters). +UNIQUE Active: Create a hard shell around yourself for 2.5 seconds that reduces all damage you take by 40%, including true damage (120 seconds cooldown).

I feel marksmen are forced into being attack damage only, and seeing Ability Power marksmen (like AP Varus, a different version of AP Kog'Maw, AP Teemo, etc) down in the bottom lane would be really cool and something that holds them back is the lack of itemization for this class to function, mainly through health sustain so this is the purpose of this item is specifically for an AP marksmen class to rise up! So this should be enough context to why I made this item!

3800 gold tier, big damage items (plus oddball Trinity Force):

Trinity Force (3800g): Recipe: Zeal (1100g) + Sheen (1200g) + Phage (1325g) + 175g

Statistics: +30 Attack Damage +30 Ability Power +250 Health +250 Mana +25% Attack Speed +25% Critical Strike Chance +8% Movement Speed +UNIQUE Passive - Rage: Basic attacks grant 20 movement speed for 2 seconds on hit. Minion, monster, and champion kills grant 60 movement speed for 2 seconds. The movement speed bonus is halved for ranged champions. +UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack deals 200% base AD bonus physical damage. (1.5 second cooldown).

Infinity Edge (3800g): Recipe: B.F. Sword (1250g) + Pickaxe (875g) + Long Sword (360g) + Cloak of Agility (800g) + 515g

Statistics: +80 Attack Damage +50% Critical Strike Chance +UNIQUE Passive: Critical strikes deal +25% more damage.

Youmuu's Ghostblade (3800g): Recipe: B.F. Sword (1250g) + The Brutalizer (1337g) + Avarice Blade (800g) + 413g

Statistics: +80 Attack Damage +20% Critical Strike Chance +20% Cooldown Reduction +UNIQUE Passive: 20% of your physical damage dealt is converted into true damage. +UNIQUE Active: Gain +40% Attack Speed and +20% Movement Speed for 6 seconds (45 seconds cooldown).

So I turned Ghostblade into a big damage item since it makes more sense in this category. I also changed the 20 flat armour penetration into a physical damage into true damage conversion, this is not bonus damage since your damage is still equal to 100% total, but whether it is a physical damage spell or basic attack it will convert a % of that value into true damage, so it is like a better flat armour penetration for the late game!

Phantom Friends (Ranged Only) (3800g): Recipe: B.F. Sword (1250g) + Pickaxe (875g) + Pickaxe (875g) + 800g

Statistics: +100 Magic Damage On-Hit +UNIQUE Passive - Animal Friend: Permanently summon a phantom wolf, a phantom hawk, and a phantom fox that follow you around everywhere you go! Each animal friend will do something with your main basic attack, but only one per basic attack and which animal does something is at random:

Wolf: Copies your on-hit effects for its attack, but at 75% effectiveness. Hawk: Shreds 20% magic resistance from its target for 2 seconds, stacks up to 2 times for 40%. Fox: Steals 4% of its target's maximum health as true damage and heal yourself for the damage dealt (max 300 against monsters).

EDIT: Phantom Friends: Recipe change to B.F. Sword + Pickaxe + Pickaxe On-hit magic damage up to 100 from 80 40% attack speed removed to 0% Hawk: Value reduced to 20% from 25%, now stacks up to 2 times for 40% magic resist shred Fox: Now steals 4% max health as true damage from 5% max health as magic damage

32 Comments

Sasogwa2 votes

Your version of zeal is pretty broken. Avarice blade is kinda broken too. 45% crit on phantom? 25% crit on zephyr. Basically ADC's will have an easy access to high %crit builds, 100%crit is very easy to obtain. I don't think u quite see how a 100 % crit build is strong, especially post nerf of thornmail. Crit adcs will melt anybody ! Also crit will be overpowered compared to on-hit builds. Frost bow: Though the idea is interesting, I don't know, is it worth getting Ashe's passive on every champion. That might actually make some people literally uncatchable and that might be more unhealthy than you think. IE is op Ghostblade is pretty broken but it's so expensive it's not worth compared to the other items. Ghostblade right now is used mainly as a power boost item and it has great synergy with botrk due to the arpen and attack speed active. I like the ideas overall (especially the on-hit for mages etc.) but the numbers are WAY TOO BIG.

In the current state of how tanky a full tank champion is, those will get melted in 2-3 seconds by someone with a smart build including some of your items, and also get kited to death with frostbow. That's mostly a straight buff to AD carries, which are in an extremely strong spot right now compared to other seasons, due to: higher base stats early game, supps having more gold -> being stronger at peeling, having better itemization, having received several buffs individually on some champions, like their attack speed/level, and other factors.

Stacona1 votes

You didn't read the full post ... because crit damage went down significantly the crit chance can go up as well ... all in all it makes crit system sustain damage rather than bursty luck, and 100% crit chance being easier to achieve is intended, it is kind of like how 40% cdr is easy to achieve

Frozen Mallet is in the game, but the Frost Bow is entirely for that attack speed and utility item

Ghostblade and Blade can be in the same build still since that is health sustain and high damage so you just thought of a new item path marksmen can take right there, BAM item diversity! what is not viable is getting more than 1 high damage item at a time (far too expensive)

The Blood Egg is the same stat efficiency as ruined king; the item is for AP Marksmen specifically, opening up a new class of champions in the bottom lane

crits lost 50% damage and crit chance went up roughly 50%--- this is a massive difference in power--- as well as on-hit marksmen i tried to introduce which do not have crit only straight DPS and AP marksmen which again will not crit

i feel like you have not read everything since you missed crucial important information since you are stating the "OP crit chances", because if you saw the crit damage went down you should think differently and know the values are balanced

again Frost Bow is a utility low damage item, shiv and PD are for high damage, and Zephyr is for movespeed and defense of tenacity

Sasogwa2 votes

woops, missed the crit damage part

Thief of Time1 votes

Last set off the items are extremely op, Imagine Garen with Yomu, or darius or riv

Stacona1 votes

i do some number value with the conversion - true damage conversion still functions like armour penetration

my summoning on-hit multiplier item i will also adjust the passive a bit

Lord Dusteon1 votes

Not going to comment on why I don't think the entire critical strike chance needs a rehaul.

For the items though, why does Essence Reaver have less effective lifesteal? Why does League need an item tailor made for Kayle? Why is Youmuu's being made into a godlike item at all times. Max AD? 20% CDR? 30% of your physical damage is now true? This is basically a "GET YER AD ASSASSIN AND RIVEN ITEM HERE". Why is a "Ranged Only" item changing AD into magic damage on hit (People building AD do not want all of it suddenly changed into a damage type they cannot build for instead of AD, which helps their skills and critical strike much more). Why is this item also have massive RNG that is completely overpowered? (do you want Sated Devourer? Frozen Mallet? Kog'Maw's W? All of this in one item!).

And finally, why does League need a perma slow item that is attractive to buy for rangeds? Does anyone actually want Kalista's attacks permanently slowing while she jumps around, or Tristana/Vayne jumping around everywhere while nothing can escape or get to them?

Stacona1 votes

The summoning item is cause it is for on-hit builds, the point is to shake up the marksmen role with on-hit builds and AP marksmen, like a different variation of AP TF, Kog, Varus, Teemo, Kayle, etc etc down in the bottom lane - as well as just straight on-hit builds can develop - Kayle does not benefit from a life sustain item for magic on-hits cause she already has a heal, this for for AP Varus and such can have a life steal item

The slow item is for options to have a utility item rather than hard damage like statikk shiv and phantom dancer, so if you prefer kiting with slows or movement speed fields then this item is better, but if you want or need hard damage you get shiv or PD; and Zephyr is there for movement speed and tenacity and is more the defensive choice

but what I did for crit overall was make the crit damage less bursty and more sustain damage focused, so less damage means more crit chance can be added, the crit system is not overhauled, just change to favour and make sense for sustain damage class types

I do some item tuning however

EDIT: Essence Reaver I did changes so mana return passive procs on physical damage instead of basic attacks only - this is a net buff plus 10% more CDR, it ends up being a lot more marksmen caster focused (even melee casters too) --- especially with the Life Steal being changed to procing based on physical damage instead of just basic attacks which is why the 6-12% range is given rather than a flat 10% because it is fundamentally better now overall

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Bunch of problems with this item set, most specifically Youmuu's, but I think Riot could sort through what's bad and what's not. Also not sure if you took into account prices of stats, but again, Riot could sort through that.

Stacona1 votes

Everything is gold to stat balanced for the most part - unique effects have to come down to real play testing since it is too hard to decide on paper

The ghostblade change with the true damage conversion is good on a glass cannon build type build or close to, something a marksmen or a squish assassin would do, but mostly for higher armour targets, since low armour targets is much much better having actual flat armour pen-- so these change specifically is a better against tanks and worse against squishies having 20% of your physical damage (% conversion is not set in stone) be true damage instead of flat armour penetration--- but the job of the marksman is for tank busting and tower taking, so the change to the item better reflects that role rather than an assassin esq item

but my ghostblade change is because the item feels more like a big damage item than a complimentary item which is what it is now

Going with 20% true damage conversion version 20 flat pen example: Deal 200 physical damage to a 60 armour target, be 160 physical 40 true with the conversion Deal 200 physical damage to a 60 armour target, be 200 physical but the 20 armour pen is like having 33% true damage so it is like dealing 133 physical and 67 true with 20 armour pen

so basically my passive over 20 flat pen favours attacking high armour targets over low armour targets and makes the item less favoured for assassins (which they might still buy the item since Infinity Edge would be even more favoured for marksmen, but still)--- for bruisers and tanks would not get the item since you are paying a lot of gold for pure offense and bruisers and tanks needs defense on their items to function in teamfights

Stacona1 votes

Remind everyone that numbers are tentative and are in place to give an idea of the direction I am going for; numbers are the easiest things to adjust and change whether too low or too high

Decrit1 votes

I upvote for the effort, but frankly i don' t see why this could be better beyond changing the crit damage: less bursty, more consistent, easier to apply on crit effect... yes is still the crappy RNG thing but is better.

But the item section looks... pretty much of fantasy, beyond those items that were simply ported over the new scaling? Don' t get offended but pretty much follow a logic like " let' s have changes tuff for the sake of it", and that might even be cool if considered as a design exercise of fantasy... but wasn' t the topic about crit? I can understand tackling also adc itemization but why overhaul it whole and add stuff like PD or touch the brutalizer, that is picked only from carries that acd ad-caster like? Or why consider them adc items at all and not items for assassins and bruisers too? And why do items that add magic damage on hit for a carry, if they use crit too? Unless you want to expand the field of items that you wanted to consider, that is good, but then brings the context all over the place!

It' s a good but hella messy thread/breed of different threads into one @_@

Critical Strike Damage Multiplier: Reduced to 150% from 200%; Infinity Edge will still grant +50% crit damage, so 200% instead of 250%

This is all i wanted to know from this post, basically.

Stacona1 votes

I want to add two new classes of marksmen as well as change the standard ad crit marksmen - the two classes being on-hit types and AP marksmen (i.e. AP Varus, Teemo, different TF build, etc) where as on-hits can go with like Kennen, Vayne, Twitch, Kog'Maw, etc it can diversify marksmen total builds rather than being forced into a crit build can do something completely different which i think would be cool to see this level of diversifying

but pretty much it is addressing to portions of changing the crit values and adding marksmen item diversity hence the " / " I just figured both functions can be in the same post since they are somewhat related

big changes to items like pd and ghostblade i did to standardize items into categories and price points and have a selection for each area you need; if you want that attack speed item you have choices between what you want / need for that game rather than picking what is the best stats there is no longer the best stats and you pick your item based on its utility like pd vs shiv, shiv for more AoE damage some magic damage and bursty attributes, whereas pd will be for dealing with that one high health tank for the extra damage over time thanks to bonus AD you deal; both are good for more damage but it depends what you want or need for the game rather than what is better stats since they are perfectly stat equal and then infinity edge and ghostblade will be IE for high health targets cause it gives more damage to crits where as ghostblade be better against high resistance tanks because a portion of your damage becomes true damage but does not actually increase your damage further

so these are just some scenarios to buying items based on decision making rather than what is necessarily the best stats since the items will be relatively equal to each other-- and then there are oddball items like health sustain for ap marksmen and an on-hit build multiplier which are entirely there for overall diversifying builds to see more than always defaulting to ad crit marksmen and we can move away and abolish the term "ad or adc" and call the role marksmen since it will be a lot more broad and diverse since on-hit/attack speed, ad-crit, and ap marksmen can be within that realm down in the duo-lane bottom lane

Also yea, making the crit system sustain damage base rather than luck bursty based, i did not want to remove the RNG element entirely, just make it more reliable and less overwhelming when crits do happen-- which started this whole post since i also think seeing more item diversity and more marksmen branches will be good for the role overall

Decrit1 votes

{quoted}

I want to add two new classes of marksmen as well as change the standard ad crit marksmen - the two classes being on-hit types and AP marksmen (i.e. AP Varus, Teemo, different TF build, etc) where as on-hits can go with like Kennen, Vayne, Twitch, Kog'Maw, etc it can diversify marksmen total builds rather than being forced into a crit build can do something completely different which i think would be cool to see this level of diversifying

but pretty much it is addressing to portions of changing the crit values and adding marksmen item diversity hence the " / " I just figured both functions can be in the same post since they are somewhat related

big changes to items like pd and ghostblade i did to standardize items into categories and price points and have a selection for each area you need; if you want that attack speed item you have choices between what you want / need for that game rather than picking what is the best stats there is no longer the best stats and you pick your item based on its utility like pd vs shiv, shiv for more AoE damage some magic damage and bursty attributes, whereas pd will be for dealing with that one high health tank for the extra damage over time thanks to bonus AD you deal; both are good for more damage but it depends what you want or need for the game rather than what is better stats since they are perfectly stat equal and then infinity edge and ghostblade will be IE for high health targets cause it gives more damage to crits where as ghostblade be better against high resistance tanks because a portion of your damage becomes true damage but does not actually increase your damage further

so these are just some scenarios to buying items based on decision making rather than what is necessarily the best stats since the items will be relatively equal to each other-- and then there are oddball items like health sustain for ap marksmen and an on-hit build multiplier which are entirely there for overall diversifying builds to see more than always defaulting to ad crit marksmen and we can move away and abolish the term "ad or adc" and call the role marksmen since it will be a lot more broad and diverse since on-hit/attack speed, ad-crit, and ap marksmen can be within that realm down in the duo-lane bottom lane

Also yea, making the crit system sustain damage base rather than luck bursty based, i did not want to remove the RNG element entirely, just make it more reliable and less overwhelming when crits do happen-- which started this whole post since i also think seeing more item diversity and more marksmen branches will be good for the role overall

...alright. But please, next time can i ask you to do separate threads? i know it might sound hard... but is even harder to contextualize a topic imho :P

Stacona1 votes

hmm... it felt like it still belonged together, not like I went from crit to tank items in the same post

Stacona1 votes

This really needs to be implemented, because the more I play the more I hate how BS crits are at the moment with their extreme damage- its not the crit system, just how extreme the damage amp is when they happen

Stacona1 votes

@meddler

Stacona1 votes

@morrello

Stacona1 votes

,

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