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The reason this game is becoming less balanced is because everyone wants to be a carry...

Cryptocurrency··2 votes·1,557 views

Taken from reddit but I thinks it describes the situation and power creep pretty well: (continue of the title...)

> ...and Riot is pandering to it. > In the past the game functioned in a way which supported 2/3 dedicated carries on a team. > This was most commonly mid and ADC (plus or minus top lane). This made sense from a design stand point. You had a relatively safe solo lane in mid which provided gold and levels required to scale. You then had a duo lane bot with a support dedicated to helping an ADC get as much gold as possible, their main requirement to become strong. Then as I said, you had top lane. This was either a tank (which actually functioned as a tank, we'll return to this...) or a bruiser/carry which again took advantage of solo experience and gold. > Supports and junglers were relatively low economy and this lent itself to running utility based champions in those roles, who did not require huge amounts of gold/XP to function. > This was actually a really good state of affairs - you had different roles genuinely trying to fulfil different objectives to support their team in different ways. > This wasn't enough for people. EVERYONE should get to do MORE DAMAGE and have MORE GOLD and get MORE KILLS and CARRY HARDER. > Over the years, Riot have pretty drastically increased the amount of gold available to junglers and supports. They've also increased the XP available to junglers. This was required to an extent (the era of junglers being Alistar and only buying Oracles and clearing wards was the other end of the spectrum and equally bad) but it's gone way too far. > What this leads to is what people thought they wanted - every role to be a 'carry' role. > Supports get way more gold, and so the role allows champions like Zyra and Malzahar to function down their as secondary AP carries. They aren't mage supports, they are AP carries - they quite often top the damage charts. This might be 'fun' for the support player, but it's honestly just straight up bad for the game. > Junglers are champions like Kha'zix, Rengar and Graves not because these champions suddenly got massively better, but because the jungle now offers them comparable resources (gold and XP) to solo lanes without them having to do anything special to get it. Farming the jungle SHOULD NOT provide the level of resources farming a solo lane does, because it is just fundamentally 'easier' and safer. Previously these champions were risky, because they needed successful ganks to get the resources they needed to be useful. Now they don't. > Top lane became a problem due to the same underlying reason but in a different way. It wasn't enough for top lane carries to exist, people wanted to be able to KILL PEOPLE no matter what type of top laner they picked. Therefore you get damage creep on tanks because everyone should do DAMAGE right? > A tank's function should be to soak up damage and provide CC. It should be to lock up enemy carries, prevent them doing damage to meaningful targets and allow their own carries to output their own damage. > What it shouldn't be is to be fucking invincible whilst also doing a lot of damage. No, an ADC with 2 damage items shouldn't be able to melt a tank with 2 armour items in no time at all. But the tank also shouldn't have enough damage to just straight up shit on the ADC 1vs1. Frankly it should be a bit of a wet noodle fight in a 1 on 1 situation. > In my opinion, tanks which function in a healthy way in this game are champions like Leona and Braum. They provide consistent CC, support their carries and interact in a way which enables their team. Poppy, Maokai and Nautilus simply don't. They are one man fucking armies who do way too much damage for how tanky they are. Either take away a lot of their damage and actually make them tanks (honestly I don't care if this means they don't function well in top lane - opening up top lane to bruisers and shifting tanks elsewhere is perfectly fine in my opinion) or take away some of their tankiness and make them bruisers. > The reason AD carries feel so week at the moment is because of the above, not because they 'do no damage' or just suck compared to previous seasons. > Take a champion like Vayne as an example. Vayne still does a tonne of damage, that isn't her problem. In previous seasons, Vayne had to worry about the damage from probably 2 or 3 sources on the enemy team when getting in range to auto. Now, she can literally get blown up by pretty much anyone. In a standard game - without being massively fed - a support Zyra, a jungle Kha'Zix and even a fucking top lane tank Poppy will absolutely blow up a Vayne if they catch her. That's why she can't function, because supports, junglers and tanks get so many more resources and do so much more damage that standard AD carries simply can't get in range to fight when one miss-step results in them getting fucked by pretty much anyone on the enemy team. > ADC feels so weak because now everyone else gets so many more resources that they've been crowded out of their primary function (doing damage). > Doing damage might feel cool and fun, but honestly everyone doing a tonne of it just isn't good for the game. Giving everyone enough resources to be a 'carry' might feel fun for the Zyra who gets to oneshot the ADC and do the most damage in game, but it isn't good for the game. It just ends up feeling unfulfilling for everyone. > Things need taking back a step. Junglers and supports need to lose some resources so that lower econ champions function better there again (and high damage carries are actually a risk) and tanks need to lose some damage. > Let's go back to a time when: > Top lane brought actual tanks or bruisers to the party > Junglers supported and enabled their lanes/team > Mid laners provided the (generally burst) damage/high impact utility > AD carries brought the consistent damage and killed the tanks nobody else could burn through > Supports...well supports were actually supports with CC, utility, healing and abilities which enabled their carries > That shit^ was a million times better than everyone being a carry and oneshotting each other. > Or that's my 2 cents, anyway. > Edit: a LOT of replied are misunderstanding me to mean that only mid/ADC should be impactful or should be more impactful than other roles. Perhaps this is a result of my choice of title, but what I was actually trying to get at was that damage isn't and shouldn't be the only way to 'carry'. > People have pushed for all the roles to be high damage because they feel like that's more fun and makes them more impactful. > What I'm saying is it was better (IMO) when the so-called 'carry' roles were primarily defined by damage output, whilst other roles could have just as big an impact but in different ways. > ADCs feel like they've lost their place because their major role has always been damage output. When every role has huge damage output, they feel like they don't bring anything special. > I feel it was better when other roles more commonly had their impact in different ways, rather than every role just being about doing as much damage as possible. > EDIT2: Also since I'm getting the "Hurr durr moaning ADC main" thing a lot, I am not and have never been an ADC carry player. This meta also suits the champions I play. That doesn't make it good.

8 Comments

Big Lincoln3 votes

good

adc being the only champs to carry was stupid and Riot hasn't gone far enough

Speeedy1 votes

what?

Late game marksman rule the game but having them as almost non factors in the first 30 min needs to change (using the old crit build). Or you have lethality which is broken that makes them strong all game with no drawbacks. you have 2 extremes right now that dont work for the role.

Ralanr3 votes

Can we please stop thinking that every tank should work like Alistar, Braum, and Leona?

Not all tanks should be balanced around the support role. Especially since it crowds out enchanter supports.

MaeDoSan1 votes

The end game full build adc fantasy is dead Compared to Dota it was really hard to get to full build in LOL before Honestly that was fair because the adcs had to be shit all game to become gods in late game Its ok that mid laners remain demi-gods throughout the game But now talking about early late and mid game doesn't even matter as an adc because you will die no matter what

Inner Squid1 votes

I have to agree with the post, things need to be toned down quite a bit. And before anyone starts with the whole " boo hoo adc main" garbage, I'm not and have never been. I'm actually a support main and when I can zone and go 1v1 with bard against quite a few adc all i need is 1 or 2 assists in the first few minutes, it says alot. Bard should never be able to out duel an adc. And Tanks don't need to function as a support role, but the do need to bring more utility threat and less damage while maintaining a defensive build.

XtellusX1 votes

This is absolutely my thoughts and has been since season 2 or 3. I feel like the people that say that adc was OP? a role cannot be OP it was the whole idea that ADCs were the late game carries it was a definite role. Each role was much better defined back in season 2. It left the strategy part of the game much stronger team fights where a dance for each team to get the adc and protect their adc. Damage was way more predictable, compared to now team fights can end in 1 -2 seconds and its a big pile of AOE filling the whole screen coming from random directions. It is much less of a team based strategy.

Every character was much more characterized some had damage some had utility some had a 50% 50% some were close combat monsters some were long range and it was clear it had advantages and set backs. Fx. a lux back then was not a long ranged aoe Veigar. but she did decent damage but not to the degree of 1 shot unless really fed. This is the main problem the 1 shooting starts for most mids already at 1 item for mages. this used to be assasin only that had that ability and the fight would last longer than 1-2 seconds so essentially there was noone who could 1 shoot after 1 item.

Riot has in my opinion only made the game worse over time. LOL was at its peak in season 2 - 3 also with the highest amount of playtime back then simply because it was good. Then they came up with the idea they had to change everything up, you simply dont change what makes you succesfull.

The points that has made the game turn the wrong direction is the following in priority order in my opinion. +

  1. Higher amount of global gold. WHY? cause it makes junglers and supports too strong
  2. The the amount of gold the jungle gives and the time it takes to farm jungle camps.
  3. DAMAGE this has been changed way to many times and then been balanced out in other ways that as been unhealthy for the game. first the penetration and flat penetration changed, secondly cause that was too OP actually ALL old champions received a nerf on their ap ratios the same goes to some ad champions. 4.then creating keystone masteries creating unpredictable damage tables. All this amounts to mages being able to 1 shoot at 1 item, supports being able to solo adcs. tanks destroying adcs absolutely in 1 v1s.
  4. The attackspeed nerf and crit nerf on adcs in season 4.
  5. free trinkets, this made the game too easy to get vision and it was a result of the higher damage from everyone cause you can get deleted so fast by all champions. There was need for an extra slot for vision items so you didnt have to sacrifice an item slot late game for wards, but it shouldnt be free at the start of the game sacrificing gold for the ability to see the map was a strategic point.
  6. Too many new champions with global teleport mechanisms 2v3s become 5 v3s very fast. This is a personal opinion but its makes the game unpredictable.
  7. Towers becoming squishy and way easier to towerdive.

In short the game has become less of a strategic game and more of a big mash button feast. If somebody created a mod that would bring league back to season 2-3 I know I would never play the current version of lol again. Games has to have some part of predictability, and back in season 2-3 you as a player had a much greater impact on the outcome as knowledge and skill had a greater impact. Good players stood out much more, a good adc now gets 1 shot just as fast as a bad adc, so the difference is much less obvious. If you focused on not dying it was actually possible if you were good, now pro players can feed if the opposing team ganks up too much on their lane it doesnt matter if they are good.

As a jungler if you spent time out of the jungle and ganking you had to have succes or else you fell behind, and you did not have the amount of damage available now through mastery keystones and jungle items. this made ganks harder and more for a kill setup rather than actually just killing the laner.

I could ramble on and on, but to sum it all out, there is a general rule in creating a system or a game, that is if you add an arbitrary - which is a false random rule something not ideal, then you have to enter more arbitraries to balance it out winding up with a system containing only arbitraries. That is what RIot has done to LOL, forst start around season 3 and 4 with damage changes and ratio nerfs jungle changes and ITEMS that did too many weird things. So all in all it has become a too complex game that makes for a less complex games, cause a player can only predict a certain amount of stuff. Did we do the same to chess which is a game that does not need tweeking it would become too random and not skill based on the player behalf but more random. That is also why the best players in the pro scene does not have the big impact they use to have.

Thats my 10 cent on the matter

Jmman1 votes

I agree the damage has ruined skill. One damage item, rest tank items bruisers being able to 100% kill you in there stun lock is the result of it.

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