But that happens when one class is the best at sieging, tank killing and objective taking, has access to items that negate most of their weaknesses, and on the top of that have entire class, dedicated entirely to negate the rest of them.
Mordepool37 votesIf they made a Marksman free game mode I'd be in heaven
Bronze Demon12 votesIf they made a Marksman free game mode I'd be in heaven
True. Then you start to see a game with better diversity and multiple meta.
ModAcademy Kayn43 votesNo, then you'd see the next safest thing become meta.
HeimerLmao4 votesNah, that means tanks are actually tanky, asssasins can actually oneshot a squishy without getting clicked to death, supports help somebody other than adc, so juggernauts bot can be a thing (Darius adc from Rubik-sama, Morde adc from people playing Morde adc). Lifesteal is not broken because nobody does THAT much BPS (burst per second) as adcs. Heaven.
skyskee0081 votesNah, that means tanks are actually tanky, asssasins can actually oneshot a squishy without getting clicked to death, supports help somebody other than adc, so juggernauts bot can be a thing (Darius adc from Rubik-sama, Morde adc from people playing Morde adc). Lifesteal is not broken because nobody does THAT much BPS (burst per second) as adcs. Heaven.
Assassins still suck because league is now 5 tanks cause why not no1 can kill them.
Melledoneus19 votesMages.
ModAcademy Kayn10 votesPersonally I'd say Tanks, since they no longer have to fear about Ranged ADCs killing 'em, as Melee fighters are much easier to peel against and CC/focus. Most mages can't one shot 'em, and combined with Supports, they get to stick around a lot longer.
Melledoneus7 votesTanks may be harder to get blown up with, but they sure as hell are far from safe. They literally serve their bodies to you on a silver platter just to CC you.
AleksaTeemo1 votesThey deal massive amount of dmg though.
Melledoneus12 votesIf it deals a massive amount of damage, it isn't a tank. The terms for those are bruisers, fighters, and juggernauts.
ThoticusSlayeris3 votes
begs to differ
Melledoneus5 votesCho'gath to me is NOT a tank. Sure, he has CC, but it's mostly offensive and selfish.
He's more of a horrendous mix of a mage and a juggernaut.
RainXBlade3 votesCC, high utility, durability and damage are four things that should never be simultaneously present in any champion and Cho'Gath's an offender to that.
At least with someone like Yasuo, he has high damage and conditional utility and CC but lacks a lot of durability and is very easy to catch out.
It Hertz When IP5 votesThey did. Hunt of the Blood Moon.
Mordepool3 votesAsassin only isn't the same as. Simply no Marksman
Chaos Milk Tea2 votesHeaven sure does have a lot of tanks then.
FilDaFunk2 votesI'd just go Ad Janna. Self-peel, heal, shield with ad boost, movement speed. Who needs an adc?
It Hertz When IP11 votesMarksmen have been "mandatory" for so long, because marksmen's inherent strengths (ranged sustained DPS) makes them uniquely suited to taking objectives, pretty sure intentionally so. And believe it or not, League of Legends is an objective-based game, not Team Deathmatch.
Teridax6825 votesLeague of Legends is a MOBA, though, and the MOBA genre as a whole has a much larger compositional diversity, where many marksman-type champions exist in all games, but aren't mandatory, even though objectives are just as essential to winning, if not more in certain circumstances. Just within League, marksmen are not the only class specializing in sustained DPS, as that is meant to be a core strength of fighters as well, yet marksmen are mandatory while fighters are not. It really is an issue with marksmen as they have been balanced in League, rather than with how the MOBA genre works.
Sasu OwO3 votesI mean it's probably intentional that league wants marksmen to essentially be mandatory. Perhaps it's what separates league from other MOBA's.
And I mean if people are really that mad about it why don't they try another MOBA.
Teridax685 votesStanding out just for the sake of standing out is not a good thing in itself, though. League is already the most popular MOBA out there, so it doesn't need to make marksmen mandatory to feel unique, and even back when it was a lot smaller, its unique features were its rune and mastery systems. Even as League dominates the MOBA market, I feel it's actually squandering part of its immense potential precisely because a lot of players have been turned off by a compositional meta that has remained stagnant for years, an issue no other competitor has had to the same extent. Some players go to HotS or Dota 2 because the meta in League is so rigid and marksman-centric, and that isn't a move that needs to happen. Even though marksmen have been the centerpiece of each team for years now, it's not really a core defining feature of League as a game, so challenging that wouldn't really harm its identity in any way, quite the contrary.
korg0231 votesWhere one of main objectives is killing people so you can get gold,level and other objectives faster and safer. So it is much closer to team deathmatch than you think.
Kanzler9 votesCrying on the forums about x class has also been mandatory forever :)
i cant move wtf7 votesThe boards actually won't be happy until URF Garen becomes regular Garen.
AirKingNeo6 votesWhy is having a frontline champion mandatory?
Why is having a burst champion mandatory?
Why is having a support champion mandatory?
Dezell5 votesThere was a period during I believe S2 where marksmen were useless and you were better off running a full team of bruisers.
It actually wasn't fun at all, imo
PB4UAME16 votesNever happened.
In season two and three you had the ADC trifecta.
Yeah, there was also metagolem, but with Runnic Bulwark and the super difficult jungle, only about a dozen or so champs could jungle, and outside of WW and Fid, they basically all played like a second support, and usually were a tank like Rammus, or Amumu who would rush Bulwark, and then aura buff/debuff items like Shurelliya's, SS, Randuin's, FH, or Stark's Fervor.
These types of champions either wanted to go in as part of an AoE wombo combo with an ADC like MF, Twitch, Ashe, EZ or Graves, or they would just be butt buddies with the ADC along with the support, and then keep the OP ADC alive long enough to kill whomever comes at you.
Dezell3 votesNever happened.
In season two and three you had the ADC trifecta.
Yeah, there was also metagolem, but with Runnic Bulwark and the super difficult jungle, only about a dozen or so champs could jungle, and outside of WW and Fid, they basically all played like a second support, and usually were a tank like Rammus, or Amumu who would rush Bulwark, and then aura buff/debuff items like Shurelliya's, SS, Randuin's, FH, or Stark's Fervor.
These types of champions either wanted to go in as part of an AoE wombo combo with an ADC like MF, Twitch, Ashe, EZ or Graves, or they would just be butt buddies with the ADC along with the support, and then keep the OP ADC alive long enough to kill whomever comes at you.
You and I remember that very differently then, because I distinctly remember teams with an ADC basically being an auto-lose. And I hated it.
I actually want to say it wasn't the metagolem meta, but I can't remember the timing well enough to be sure.
Edit: I do remember the ADC trifecta though, so maybe we are talking about the same time. I think it may have been the preseason because that meta didn't survive to pro play.
LankPants4 votesThere was a point in time where Black Cleaver was so absurd that playing any squishy who couldn't utilise it was a terrible idea. I think this might be what you're talking about but this still doesn't mean there were no ADCs and it lasted for 1 patch in preseason 3.
The ADC meta shifted but ADCs were still prominent. It just became a matter of which ADCs could abuse tBC. Out of your trifecta of Ez/Corki/Graves both Corki and Graves could make use of tBC since at the time Corki's E was phys damage and stacked it very quickly. Ez fell out of the meta and MF rose up to replace him as the best ADC abuser of the broken Black Cleaver.
The real victims of this patch were not ADCs, they took a hit sure, but they were still playable. Mages on the other hand were dead. You could not play not only mages but most magic damage dealers in general. Mages were completely replaced by assassins and AD caster mids like Talon, Zed, Riven, Lee Sin and J4.
PB4UAME1 votesWas just going to say, after reading his comment I immediately thought of the dreaded League of Cleaver, first preseason patch of Season 3, just after Metagolem got its first nerfs. Damn, boots + 5 cleaver Talon and Zed. . . I still have quiescent cancer cells from those dark days floating around in me somewhere, I'm sure.
EDIT: Also want to point out, not only did Corki stack BC in under a second with his E, his E was also used to shred armor as well, so with armor pen runes (which were VERY common that patch) he could be hitting for close to true damage on most characters.
Secondly, if you could auto attack or had AD ratios, you built cleaver. Even in other game modes, you built cleaver. I fucking saw 5 cleaver KARTHUS. The character who for the longest time, had one of the worst AAs ever, and who had an ability designed with the intention of replacing his auto attacks, who also has nothing to do with anything related to physical damage in his kit? But wait, someone realized that his wall was reducing up to 40 armor and magic resist. This might seem kinda random, but it actually made AD Karthus OP on this patch for the sole reason that it was the largest source of armor reduction in the game, and for those of you who might not know why that's important, reductions can go below zero, and everyone was already getting their armor shredded and then penetrated into oblivion, so Karthus effectively made squishes -40 armor if he could wall them.
Velzard of Koz5 votesYeah, I know exactly what class you are talking about.... the nobles... We need more Marx.
LankPants5 votesADCs are just too damn good at trivialising their intended weaknesses.
ADCs have an answer to every single weakness you could conceive for them. This is why they'll never be a balanced class in League.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesDon't forget that they're supposed to be immobile; but between essence reaver and phantom dancer, they'll outrun most anyone lacking a sudden gap-closer.
Riot's blatant pampering of this class, has been ruining the game balance for years, steadily getting worse.
skyskee0081 votes[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtGo0JFm,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2017-08-26T16:53:24.663+0000)
Don't forget that they're supposed to be immobile; but between essence reaver and phantom dancer, they'll outrun most anyone lacking a sudden gap-closer.
Riot's blatant pampering of this class, has been ruining the game balance for years, steadily getting worse.
Who said they were supposed to be immobile??? Juggernauts are supposed to be immobile not ADCs.
If they were meant to be immobile then Vayne/Lucian/Old Graves/Tristana wouldn't have dashes/jumps
ZT Xperimentor1 votesAnd who said glass cannons can fly like a ferrari?
I don't mind some mobility ability, as long as it's not spam-able or massively unfair. For example I'm fine with draven's being used whenever he likes and is a noticable improvement to catches and escapes; same with jinx's, though it's more conditional, it can still be decide a fight. Kalista's can be quite oppressive with her inifi-hops, dodging anything short of a point & click if she's skilled; vayne's wouldn't be so bad if her ult didn't let her go invisible every other second, which cannot be countered any longer with a pink/red ward.
Some in the middle however are debatable for reasons other than their mobility, like ezreal being able to abuse any on-hit item practically from vision range, new graves being a ranged bruiser due to defense steroids, ext.
DariusDemiurge4 votesComplain about human history too. Never was there a hugely successful military without ranged units.
SSShutTheDuckUp7 votesNever was there a mountain going towards a fox, that sent a blow kiss, yet Ahri can charm Malphite. Why are you even trying to compare human warfare with League?
Wildlife14 votesWhen people go full retard they cant be saved, dont even try to explain it to the guys that compared league with warfare
LankPants3 votesRome would beg to differ.
One of the most fearsome militaries in history relied primarily on men armed with shields and short swords.
The entirety of Classical Eastern Europe massively deprioritised archery, preferring shields, spears and short swords. The Spartans were the extreme example of this, fighting entire wars without firing a single arrow, yet they were the most successful army in ancient Greece.
Your entire argument just seems to ignore classical Europe, and people must have been rather successful considering the allusions to ancient Greece and Rome that still exist in Western culture today.
Bârd4 votesADC's are a thing because glass cannon crit/AS builds are the single most efficient way to do DPS.
Any team based game of this general type needs DPS.
There are two reasons you don't see Melees picked for that role in most games.
PhDs Nuts3 votesYou really think getting rid of "marksmen" would eliminate the problem? Something else would take the place as mandatory. Ziggs would just be played bot again. Kill lanes might be meta, which snowball completely out of control. Other ranged champs might just take the place and build AD instead. Twisted Fate, Kennen, Jayce, Lulu could take over.
If you want to get rid of marksmen, ask for a mode without turrets.
Skorch3 votesThat is because they are designed for where they are. If there is one thing about ADCs its their reliability. No matter what you can pick any ADC build Crit be semi-bad early, and good late. Every ADC is designed the exact same. With the same weaknesses and strengths. Every other role is much more diverse.
So lack of diversity for reliability? It depends on what you think of that...
DunkinNoobs3 votesYou can easily win games without an adc. People just aren't willing to actually do it because playing something other than a ranged carry bot lane is likely to get you raged at even if it's something that's proven successful such as Bot Mordekaiser. This is true except for, ironically, in very high elo where you'd expect people to follow meta the most but it's also the place you're most likely to see a non-adc bot lane.
P0IS0N IVY2 votesI wonder what would happen if Riot allowed abilities to damage turrets.
4th3t0s8 votesVeigar would be permaban
LankPants3 votesI'm pretty sure you'd ban champs like 
, 
, 
and 
over Veigar. Special mention to 
, who would probably be the most cancerous thing ever with this change.
Outranging a tower and poking it down would be more reliable than trying to burst it.
SSShutTheDuckUp6 votes
But can they move turrets?
Votable Jester2 votes
I like this idea.
korg0231 votesThis is how things work in HoTs and its fun and adds much diversity. Also one note , since we have such strong abilities in the game they need to add some ability resistance to turrets first since some champions would be able to just oneshot turrets.
