So when are these champs getting their base damages nerfed?

WoonStruck·Feb 12, 2016·9 votes·427 views

Why can they all build defensive items and still outdamage the large majority of the cast while having powerful defensive mechanisms as well?

19 Comments

spavinedFeb 13, 20164 votes

Fiora passive 3% base -- maybe make it scale purely off of bonus ad or something? q base 105 -- if you consider this too much well i suppose they could do a vi excessive force dealio w 250 base -- OK not bad i would understand a small Nerf to this considering its utility uses e is a steroid so no base damage R 12% max hp-- i don't think i need to really mention this one

OrangesilkFeb 13, 20161 votes

Her passive scales purely off bonus AD, tanky Fiora is dealing like 35% HP to tanks AT BEST with her ult.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

passive 3% base -- maybe make it scale purely off of bonus ad or something? q base 105 -- if you consider this too much well i suppose they could do a vi excessive force dealio w 250 base -- OK not bad i would understand a small Nerf to this considering its utility uses e is a steroid so no base damage R 12% max hp-- i don't think i need to really mention this one

Fiora's kit revolves around procing her passive.

What you suggest is like ignoring Graves', Lucian, or anyone else's core damage passive.

Fiora's problem is that her damage is practically independent of items. You can increase it a small amount by going full AD, but the bases are high enough that tanky AD goes much farther since more procs>fewer more powerful procs. Its similar to Irelia. She has decent scalings, but since her W is completely independent of items and her bases are all decent, its much better to go 2 damage items and tank after.

I guess your point is that neither do good damage, though?

OrangesilkFeb 13, 20161 votes

What are you -smoking-? he just showed you her bases are actually really low, like, showed you actual numbers.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

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What are you -smoking-? he just showed you her bases are actually really low, like, showed you actual numbers.

What are you smoking. It doesn't take a genius to see that Fiora still does good damage when building rather tanky. Just like it doesn't take a genius to see that Irelia does damage despite building tanky.

Its not her active kit that has high numbers, its her passive's ability to constantly and easily be proc'd at its current value/CD while dealing % true damage. That combined with how Titanic Hydra, cleaver, and HP items interact pushes her to where she's at now.

If her passive had either a longer CD, lower base damage, or lower scaling, just by a little, she would be much more reasonable.

TyroneWatermelonFeb 12, 20162 votes

lower base damage+ little bit higher scaling damage would be wonderful. except graves and fiora,they should be deleted.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20162 votes

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lower base damage+ little bit higher scaling damage would be wonderful. except graves and fiora,they should be deleted.

None of them need higher scaling damage either. The point is to lower the damage, not have their damage be similar to what it was when they continue using the same build. It'd just make their laning a little less potent if you lower bases and raise scaling. Laning AND transition are huge issues on all of them, and the proof in that is that they have good early games and stellar mid-late games because they can build semi-tanky and still have exceptional damage.

OrangesilkFeb 13, 20162 votes

Actually Fioras base damages are kinda abysmal, and her scalings are very decent which is why she's forced to buy AD.

This 'tanky Fiora' that you keep having troubles against is terrible at tank-busting and can be easily defeated via peel.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Actually Fioras base damages are kinda abysmal, and her scalings are very decent which is why she's forced to buy AD.

This 'tanky Fiora' that you keep having troubles against is terrible at tank-busting and can be easily defeated via peel.

item 3071 item 3748 item 3065 item 3742 Is terrible though, eh? Are you saying that you know better than all of the diamond and challenger players?

Tank busting isn't what Fiora's about. She can tank bust potentially, but why would you want to prioritize focusing tanks?

OrangesilkFeb 13, 20161 votes

Because since she virtually has no lockdown (unlike all other bruisers) if you try to up and dive the backline, you'll get CCed by competent players and blown up before you can hurt a carry.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

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Because since she virtually has no lockdown (unlike all other bruisers) if you try to up and dive the backline, you'll get CCed by competent players and blown up before you can hurt a carry.

Yes, let's pretend that you go in first with the light fighters and ADCs. You definitely want to initiate 1v5 with them. That's what you're telling me?

None of those champions are initiators. Why are you diving their backline solo while their peel is still up?

OrangesilkFeb 13, 20161 votes

Welp, same goes for literally all bruisers in the game, Bruiser Fiora has the same counterplay as:

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Welp, same goes for literally all bruisers in the game, Bruiser Fiora has the same counterplay as:

Explain to me why Olaf, Voli, Yorick, and Aatrox all have such 'stellar' performance compared to the others, then.

None of the champions I listed can make it as true front-liners because they lack the CC. They are successful because their base stats/damage allow them to brute-force many wins.

I think you're missing something here.

OrangesilkFeb 13, 20161 votes

Olaf has seen plenty of pro-play actually, and Voli was broken for a while at the beginning of the season. Yorick has a slew of problems and Aatrox is terrible because if he stops AAing for a second he's dead.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Olaf has seen plenty of pro-play actually, and Voli was broken for a while at the beginning of the season. Yorick has a slew of problems and Aatrox is terrible because if he stops AAing for a second he's dead.

The point is that bruisers in general are not the biggest issue. Its the champions who were not intended to use their itemization that are issues. Once those outliers are put in line, then the itemization and the champions its intended for should be looked into and buffed/nerfed accordingly.

All of the champions I listed have issues with their kit that make them powerful despite what they build between tank/damage. What you're thinking of is the power that new itemization gives the champions you listed which can be overbearing against some champions and comps in general. There's a huge difference between the two, and if there are champions a cut above the rest, those champions should always be looked into first.

Nerfing itemization punishes everyone not just the over-tuned champions that utilize it, yet that's still how Riot wants to keep them in line. This would be fine if Riot made it so EVERY champion could be effective whether they built tanky or damage, but Riot is not active enough with their balance department, and its extremely apparent.

TyroneWatermelonFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

None of them need higher scaling damage either. The point is to lower the damage, not have their damage be similar to what it was when they continue using the same build. It'd just make their laning a little less potent if you lower bases and raise scaling. Laning AND transition are huge issues on all of them, and the proof in that is that they have good early games and stellar mid-late games because they can build semi-tanky and still have exceptional damage.

I think direct nerf would be too much as much as I hate them,what do you think about higher scaling per level(ex. 60/70/80/90/100% bonus as)

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think direct nerf would be too much as much as I hate them,what do you think about higher scaling per level(ex. 60/70/80/90/100% bonus as)

How would a direct nerf be too much? They're all over-bearing early game if given the slightest chance. They need direct nerfs, even if they're just small ones.

agbudarFeb 13, 20161 votes

its not them its these silly masteries we got going for em right now

yi with sated + fervor + his passive = death to anyone he attacks for more then 2 seconds remember that sated stacks fervor and his passive as well. not to mention that they both have absurd synergy with one another. i mean cmon 1stAA + 2ndAA sated proc + 3rdAA procs passive and procs sated again <<--- rinse and repeat.

WoonStruckFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

its not them its these silly masteries we got going for em right now

yi with sated + fervor + his passive = death to anyone he attacks for more then 2 seconds remember that sated stacks fervor and his passive as well. not to mention that they both have absurd synergy with one another. i mean cmon 1stAA + 2ndAA sated proc + 3rdAA procs passive and procs sated again <<--- rinse and repeat.

Let's not forget the on-hit true damage.

Yi would be a problem with the new itemization whether or not keystones existed.

Quinn's burst from the start of the game on is absurd. Masteries aren't what makes or breaks her.

Fiora and Graves are both considered huge problems, and they likely would be independent of masteries as well.

GP generally uses grasp of the undying. That pretty much only buffs his laning. He has other much larger problems than his laning.