Leblanc Zero Counterplay

Malak·Apr 23, 2018·13 votes·3,659 views

I always ban ekko because I don't like how he has zero counterplay all in potential with his ult.

Leblanc is 10 times worse. I don't mind burst, but the fact that she can all in without risk is just unfun to play against.

With Zed, you can punish his shadow cooldown and fight him if he follows his shadow, and you can use exhaust/zhonyas for his ult. With leblanc, theres nothing you can do. She keeps doing the same burst on a short cooldown. Not to mention leblanc is impossible to gank mid

Just gonna ban leblanc now every game, GL leblanc mains.

30 Comments

Fisher No ChainsApr 23, 20188 votes

Okay, let me see...

So, you faced a LB that ended the game with a final score of 15/5/9. Your midlaner, Zed, was 2/10/3 and dealt 6k damage in a 33 minutes long match.

Are you really sure that the problem there was LeBlanc? :thinking:

Lolman978Apr 23, 20184 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/256/183/9d5.png

Wyfdros Apr 23, 20186 votes

too bad for you lb right now has 47.01% win rate, 4th lowest mid laner win rate, so either all the lb you faced was a challenger smurf or it's just you

Colton147Apr 24, 20185 votes

Leblanc is an assassin. She is suppose to assassinate you.

If Talon , Zed , and others can 100-0 without counterplay then so can Leblanc .

Blu 1Apr 24, 20183 votes

Except you can dodge most of Zed 's damage. His only point and click spell (his ult) deals a relatively small amount of damage unless he hits you with other spells.

Michael SykesApr 24, 20182 votes

you can also dodge a lot of her damage since her q+r is pretty weak. It always needs a skillshot with a small hitbox. It is not too hard to stay at a distance, especially as karthus

SEKAIApr 25, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blu 1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YnTZxAEA,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-04-24T17:39:49.931+0000)

Except you can dodge most of 's damage. His only point and click spell (his ult) deals a relatively small amount of damage unless he hits you with other spells.

Yeah, try dodging Zed's spells at point blank when he ulti's you (which blinks Zed right next to you), especially when he could also just AA you 3 times after coming up your face and you'd still die from the explosion anyway. Nice one.

You can only dodge Zed if he isn't ulti'ing, which is a meaningless statement after lvl 6 because he will only come at you when he has ulti, to which you can't escape from unless you either out-tank it or have some sort of ways to mitigate the damage such as shield or Zhonya or whatever (which is not dodging, because you're tanking it), otherwise there is no way to dodge anything when he ulti's you; he's literally designed that way, where his ulti is meant to be a death sentence for the very most part of its usage, so let's not fool around.

MalakApr 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, try dodging Zed's spells at point blank when he ulti's you (which blinks Zed right next to you), especially when he could also just AA you 3 times after coming up your face and you'd still die from the explosion anyway. Nice one.

You can only dodge Zed if he isn't ulti'ing, which is a meaningless statement after lvl 6 because he will only come at you when he has ulti, to which you can't escape from unless you either out-tank it or have some sort of ways to mitigate the damage such as shield or Zhonya or whatever (which is not dodging, because you're tanking it), otherwise there is no way to dodge anything when he ulti's you; he's literally designed that way, where his ulti is meant to be a death sentence for the very most part of its usage, so let's not fool around.

With Zed you can build zhonya's or take exhaust and you nullify his damage. Another great thing about zed is that he's AD so when you build armor as in zhonyas, it helps against the ADC as well. His early laning phase isn't great, although you have to be careful with the shadow. There's really a lot of things about zed that make him fair, even if he does assassinate squishies quickly.

Leblanc is a lot more annoying. She can warp to you and poke, if she misses her skillshots, she instantly teleports back and waits for cooldowns. If she hits those chains you're probably dead. Then that forces you into buying MR which is fine, but you have to admit buying MR is less optimal than armor.

I don't mind her damage nor her mirror image, I just really dislike that she can instantly teleport to safety after unloading on you.

SEKAIApr 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

With Zed you can build zhonya's or take exhaust and you nullify his damage. Another great thing about zed is that he's AD so when you build armor as in zhonyas, it helps against the ADC as well. His early laning phase isn't great, although you have to be careful with the shadow. There's really a lot of things about zed that make him fair, even if he does assassinate squishies quickly.

Leblanc is a lot more annoying. She can warp to you and poke, if she misses her skillshots, she instantly teleports back and waits for cooldowns. If she hits those chains you're probably dead. Then that forces you into buying MR which is fine, but you have to admit buying MR is less optimal than armor.

I don't mind her damage nor her mirror image, I just really dislike that she can instantly teleport to safety after unloading on you.

Whatever works for Zed works exactly for LB, given them work on virtually the same mechanism; they both have extremely tricky mobility, and often burst you instantly in ways you can not dodge through conventional means beyond going into some kind of invulnerability or outright tanking it (or you have to flash away before anything happens, which is a pretty costy solution). Both of them can also jump back if their initial assassination attempt fail making catching them much harder (in fact Zed can do this up to 2 times at a single given time), and both do not have to properly land skillshots when going in for the kill either because they can't possibly miss them during their assassination seeing they're always casting spells direct at your face after warping right next to you or that they both of them have some kind of lock-on that mitigate the requirement anyway (LB still has her Q even if she misses everything for whatever reason, and Zed can just AA after R to get things done anyway).

So why are you completely okaying 1 and complaining about the other?

I'd at least understand if you hate both or love both at the same time, but why hate one and defend the other that's incredibly similar and have just about the exact same amount of player interaction as the other?

.......

MR as a stat also works identically as Armour, it's just that MR itemisation is not as diverse as Armour itemisation which is another issue entirely. But Hexdrinker/Maw of Malmortius is still baller as hell anyway so it's not like MR doesn't have super items of their own (and Abyssal Mask, if you're a Cass or Ryze or other DPS mana mage player where you can proceed to build this item intended for tanks and proceed to both out-damage and out-dps your opponent...).

Blu 1Apr 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'd at least understand if you hate both or love both at the same time, but why hate one and defend the other that's incredibly similar and have just about the exact same amount of player interaction as the other?

For me personally I think it's because the explosion of Zed's ult is back-loaded , giving you ample time to item 3157 item 2419 summoner 21 summoner 7 item 3040 etc. where LeBlanc's damage is mostly front-loaded.

MalakApr 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Whatever works for Zed works exactly for LB, given them work on virtually the same mechanism; they both have extremely tricky mobility, and often burst you instantly in ways you can not dodge through conventional means beyond going into some kind of invulnerability or outright tanking it (or you have to flash away before anything happens, which is a pretty costy solution). Both of them can also jump back if their initial assassination attempt fail making catching them much harder (in fact Zed can do this up to 2 times at a single given time), and both do not have to properly land skillshots when going in for the kill either because they can't possibly miss them during their assassination seeing they're always casting spells direct at your face after warping right next to you or that they both of them have some kind of lock-on that mitigate the requirement anyway (LB still has her Q even if she misses everything for whatever reason, and Zed can just AA after R to get things done anyway).

So why are you completely okaying 1 and complaining about the other?

I'd at least understand if you hate both or love both at the same time, but why hate one and defend the other that's incredibly similar and have just about the exact same amount of player interaction as the other?

.......

MR as a stat also works identically as Armour, it's just that MR itemisation is not as diverse as Armour itemisation which is another issue entirely. But Hexdrinker/Maw of Malmortius is still baller as hell anyway so it's not like MR doesn't have super items of their own (and Abyssal Mask, if you're a Cass or Ryze or other DPS mana mage player where you can proceed to build this item intended for tanks and proceed to both out-damage and out-dps your opponent...).

Blu 1 responded with what I was going to say. Zed and Leblanc seem similar on paper but they're completely different when you're actually playing against them mid. Zed will never kill you before you can see him. His ult also has about a second of downtime giving you PLENTY of time to think about how you're going to approach the engage.

TrashballApr 24, 20183 votes

I would argue the real issue with Leblanc right now is that the lockout-time on her return-blink is so low, and so instantaneous that it leaves many champions without any reasonably sized window to fight back against her. unless you cast your skillshot RIGHT as she dashes in, she can be gone before a projectile has the time to TRAVEL TO HER. and let's not forget that if you combine her e and w they have a collective range of about 1200 units, so good luck staying out of range of that one. and if you try to retaliate she just warps back, wastes your mana, and she waits a little bit to try again.

Jeanne fan clubApr 24, 20183 votes

I sure do enjoy having instanuke mark and proc abilities on single target abilities. having lb w forward for an instant q r poke combo taking more than half of your hp sure is a fun way to play the game considering you cant even retaliate on most champions. The only real counterplay for a mage or something is to shove the wave so she has to use her abilities on the minions, but its clear to see that riot wants to take that saving grace away.

Elkington VIApr 24, 20183 votes

Try playing something besides glass cannon champions once in a while, especially ones with no hard CC.

MalakApr 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elkington VI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YnTZxAEA,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-04-24T04:42:35.256+0000)

Try playing something besides glass cannon champions once in a while, especially ones with no hard CC.

Karthus builds health items so I wouldn't consider him a glasscannon at all.

Namely rod of ages, morell, liandry

Elkington VIApr 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Karthus builds health items so I wouldn't consider him a glasscannon at all.

Namely rod of ages, morell, liandry

You need resistances to avoid getting shredded by %hp damage. He's also an immobile mage, so there's only so much he can do against an assassin. Ryze and Annie get away with it since they can build tankier and have shields.

MalakApr 25, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elkington VI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YnTZxAEA,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T23:37:35.039+0000)

You need resistances to avoid getting shredded by %hp damage. He's also an immobile mage, so there's only so much he can do against an assassin. Ryze and Annie get away with it since they can build tankier and have shields.

This thread is about leblanc...and what I play is really none of your business nor relevant

Elkington VIApr 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

This thread is about leblanc...and what I play is really none of your business nor relevant

Using that logic, you might as well have not bothered making a thread at all. Trying to discuss a champion's faults without comparative analysis is pointless, otherwise the topic just devolves into salty whining.

archerno1Apr 23, 20182 votes

What do you mean Ekko has 0 counterplay with his ulti? He cant ulti if u CC him.

M00ndanc3Apr 24, 20181 votes

i know the feeling

When ever I save my life saver move till right before I die but get cced and die anyways

LBmyBBApr 23, 20182 votes

It's easy to say theres no counterplay when you have no evidence. Just build a fucking ROA if your a midlaner and your fine. Obviously you don't know how the champ works. Especially if you get hit by everything.

Big LincolnApr 23, 20182 votes

you can interrupt her dash

M00ndanc3Apr 24, 20182 votes

yeah I played her for the first time yesterday and kept bouncing between 200 and 2000 ping and still was like 12/4 at the end of the game.

Dope SoloApr 24, 20182 votes

Don't get close. Remember that the new Repertoir-style counterplay involves sitting out of lane and getting your cs at 25-50% efficiency of the champs Riot favors.

ZT XperimentorApr 24, 20182 votes

Rather fight her than ekko, at least she can't build like a tank and still telefrag squishies.

TegashApr 24, 20181 votes

You want to counter ekko, play vlad.

He brings more to a team and can outsustain ekko big time. Take barrier and have a lovely mid.

Or you can just go diana and stomp him out of lane.

PS: Heimerdinger and many other control mages (such as Lux and Viktor) do really well against LB, so try them out if you want to lane against her.

Automated RivenApr 24, 20181 votes

Honestly just dodge the chains. She cannot kill you without them if your outside of dash range. And they lessened the range of them from her pre pre reworked state. Not to mention that her burst is all behind procking her rq. QR does like 30% of your hp in lane unless it gets followed up with w or e. If she hits you with w you mispositioned and if she hits you with her slow ass e she deserves it. She is ok but she is a shadow of what she was before. (that being said I really hope they don't buff her. But she doesn't need a nerf).

MalakApr 24, 20181 votes

Thanks for the "tips" gentlemen but as a control mage (Karthus) I am not going to deal with that bullshit. Permabanned for now.

As someone else already said, She can warp to you and warp back instantly making it impossible to punish the aggression.

Chains are difficult to dodge because she warps to you then uses chains at close range. Also ungankable.

I don't know if she's overpowered, but that kind of zero-interaction gameplay just doesn't belong in today's league.