No more Evelynn changes?

Bears Dont Care·Apr 28, 2015·17 votes·1,383 views

I thought it was universally agreed upon that the W change was a flat out nerf that completely nullified the Q base damage buff? Could we have Evelynn looked over again or at least have the W change reverted?

16 Comments

LissamaApr 28, 20154 votes

Bring back old W!

Rew711Apr 28, 20151 votes

but with the revert, please keep the added stuff to make it easier on players playing as evelynn. or is that a bad idea? if it is please explain.

LissamaApr 28, 20151 votes

IDC about new W passive, just want to get it back:

Passive: Evelynn's spell hits on enemy champions grant her 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20 bonus movement speed for 3 seconds, stacking up to 4 times.

KingKong2350Apr 28, 20151 votes

The new W is awesome. With 40% CDR the CD is 9 seconds. 3 of those seconds you are turbo. You only need to land 6 spells in 3 seconds for it to be up again. Perma turbo

itsCHANCEyoApr 28, 20151 votes

and old Q! no movement speed boost makes it impossible to chase anyone down or run away when u inevitably don't kill them with your initial burst because her dmg is too low anyway. >_< doh!

eve i love you, but dayum someone help dis b1tch out.

BlackEyesBlueApr 28, 20151 votes

I posted something about buffing her ult a little while back, and for some reason it got down voted like crazy! :P

I've been doing great with Eve lately!; I'd like to see her under powered ult buffed, even with just a CD reduction...

Come on Riot help my girl out!

Phuc Dat BichApr 28, 20151 votes

The only thing eve need is better base stats (Armor/MR/BASE HP/HP PER LVL/MS) if riot actually buff this stats eve would be good!!

because EVE atm she dosent even hit the 2k hp at lvl 18 when she is a champion who need to be in melee range all the time to deal damage...with her Q or E

And t hen you have ziggs/lux and other champs who have better stats and they deal damage from 900 range..

Yeah that what eve need better base stats

Eve have the stats of an assasin because of the old days but eve is way far from being an assasin after all this damage nerfs and change to her E damage from magic to physical!

Widder88Apr 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=GG WP EZ GAME,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YnIdyJN1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-28T15:54:36.436+0000) Eve have the stats of an assasin because of the old days but eve is way far from being an assasin after all this damage nerfs and change to her E damage from magic to physical!

Which nerfs do you mean?

Q Damage was changed from 120 (+45% AP) to 90 (+55% AP), and then it was changed to 100 (+55% AP). This means you do more damage if you buy more than 200 AP, and you do less damage if you buy less than 200 AP. Buff for Assasin Eve, Nerf for Tank Eve!

E Damage was changed to physical, but it now applys on hit effects. This means the AP ratio was increased from 100% to 110% because of the mastery Arcane Blade, and if you buy Lich bane E has a 160% AP ratio now.

Tank Eve feels so weak compared to Assasin Eve, i really don't get what you are saying.

Bears Dont CareApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Which nerfs do you mean?

Q Damage was changed from 120 (+45% AP) to 90 (+55% AP), and then it was changed to 100 (+55% AP). This means you do more damage if you buy more than 200 AP, and you do less damage if you buy less than 200 AP. Buff for Assasin Eve, Nerf for Tank Eve!

E Damage was changed to physical, but it now applys on hit effects. This means the AP ratio was increased from 100% to 110% because of the mastery Arcane Blade, and if you buy Lich bane E has a 160% AP ratio now.

Tank Eve feels so weak compared to Assasin Eve, i really don't get what you are saying.

The reason you feel that way is because you are probably getting snowballed early. Evelynn does not gain the strength towards hatespike until you have 200+AP, during which you deal less damage than you would have in the past. Her early game damage is rather poor, and the physical nature of Ravage makes penetration building awkward.

Q is magical sustain. E is physical damage burst. R is current health magic based.

You pretty much need both LW and Voidstaff if you want either of her tools to remain relevant later in the game which hurts her build flexibility.

Widder88Apr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The reason you feel that way is because you are probably getting snowballed early. Evelynn does not gain the strength towards hatespike until you have 200+AP, during which you deal less damage than you would have in the past.

Yes, but the difference is not big. The 5.7 buff helped a lot.

And Tank Eve is not better than Assasin Eve when you fall behind. When you fall behind in the early game but build full damage, you will still have the ability to find picks in the mid game and to come back, while Tanky Eve will still die in a bad situation, but without pick potential in good situations. If you are behind in the late game, it gets more difficult to find picks, because the enemys will group more and more, but it is still the best chance to come back.

Her early game damage is rather poor, and the physical nature of Ravage makes penetration building awkward.

Q is magical sustain. E is physical damage burst. R is current health magic based.

You pretty much need both LW and Voidstaff if you want either of her tools to remain relevant later in the game which hurts her build flexibility.

I build none of both.

The AP scaling of Q is one of the best in the game. 55% compared to 100 base damage. If you know an other ability with a scaling like this, tell me. This means building flat AP is very efficient. E is almost the same case.

LW and Voidstaff are good against tanks but not necessary to kill squshys. Squshys are Eves primary target.

While LW and Voidstaff are good items on other champions, Eve can build other good items: Rabadons outdamages every other item. Lich bane outdamages every other item except Rabadons (and maybe Nashors Tooth), Zhonyas Hourglass and Mercurial Scimitar provide really great utility, Abysall scepter provides magic penetration AND magic resist. With these items Evelynns late game is good. She can burst squshys and has the DPS to kill tanks afterwards. She just can not burst tanks while tanking the damage of the squishys.

Bears Dont CareApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but the difference is not big. The 5.7 buff helped a lot.

And Tank Eve is not better than Assasin Eve when you fall behind. When you fall behind in the early game but build full damage, you will still have the ability to find picks in the mid game and to come back, while Tanky Eve will still die in a bad situation, but without pick potential in good situations. If you are behind in the late game, it gets more difficult to find picks, because the enemys will group more and more, but it is still the best chance to come back.

That isn't true, assassin eve relies almost entirely on dueling capability because her team fightning capbility is weak. Good teamplay favors a bruiser type Evelynn because picking becomes harder and harder to do in the game since teamfights become more important.

Hence why I build early damage until mid game in which case, I go bruiser type.

I build none of both.

The AP scaling of Q is one of the best in the game. 55% compared to 100 base damage. If you know an other ability with a scaling like this, tell me. This means building flat AP is very efficient. E is almost the same case.

Malzahar Call of the void: 300 damage (80% AP). THere are many mages and assassins, who have far stronger base and scalings than Evelynn does. Evelynn's is low because of the low CD< but you must consider she needs to be very close due to the missile decay speed.

E is 100% AD/AP in terms of ratio and is her burstiest ability, but it is physical and armor is built over time in game.

LW and Voidstaff are good against tanks but not necessary to kill squshys. Squshys are Eves primary target.

Um...yes...yes they are. Last Whisper and Voidstaff are both very effcient against even the squishiest of champions.

While LW and Voidstaff are good items on other champions, Eve can build other good items: Rabadons outdamages every other item. Lich bane outdamages every other item except Rabadons (and maybe Nashors Tooth), Zhonyas Hourglass and Mercurial Scimitar provide really great utility, Abysall scepter provides magic penetration AND magic resist. With these items Evelynns late game is good. She can burst squshys and has the DPS to kill tanks afterwards. She just can not burst tanks while tanking the damage of the squishys.

Lichbane has an ICD of 1.5s. Hydra/Botrk do NOT have an ICD on their proc effect. A quadruple proc from hydra is extremely deadly.

If you are not building penetration items as an assassin, then you aren't taking advantage of her kit as well as you could be. Personally, I build an AD version of Evelynn.

Warrior/Magus + LW + botrk/hydra. + 2 tanky items.

Assassinates squishies extremely easily and can tank on tanks with ease.

Widder88Apr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That isn't true, assassin eve relies almost entirely on dueling capability because her team fightning capbility is weak. Good teamplay favors a bruiser type Evelynn because picking becomes harder and harder to do in the game since teamfights become more important.

Hence why I build early damage until mid game in which case, I go bruiser type.

Bruiser Eve is maybe better for teamfighting than Assasin Eve, but Bruiser Eve doesn't get as much money as Assasin Eve, because she gets less picks. When the enemy team starts to group as 5, it is still better to be an Assasin Eve with 5-6 items than an Bruiser Eve with only 4-5 items, even if a 5-6 item Bruiser Eve would be better. AP Bruiser Eve does not make as much sence as AD Bruiser, this means you have to decide early, which way you want to go, but going for AD-Brusier hurts the pick potential too much imo.

Malzahar Call of the void: 300 damage (80% AP). THere are many mages and assassins, who have far stronger base and scalings than Evelynn does.

300 base damage - 80% AP, this scaling is really bad compared to Eve Q. You need 375 AP to double the base damage, and 750 AP to triple it. Eve triples her Q-damage with 375 AP and quintuples her Q-damage with 750 AP. This means she doesn't need a Voidstaff to increase her Q damage as much as Malzahar for example.

E is 100% AD/AP in terms of ratio and is her burstiest ability, but it is physical and armor is built over time in game.

110% AP, because it applys Arcane blade. And it applys Lich bane, and Nashors tooth. So with Full build it has a 190% AP ratio and does almost 50% magic damage.

Um...yes...yes they are. Last Whisper and Voidstaff are both very effcient against even the squishiest of champions.

LW is ok against squishys because even squshys have high base armor, but LW is not an option for AP Eve, because only 25%-33% is physical damage, and even the E damage is increased more by Lich bane for example.

And Void staff is not that good against squshys. An Abysall scepter does more damage against targets with 0-57 mr than Void staff. And an Abysall scepter is still better for dueling mages than Voidstaff until 150 mr. I am not even sure if I would prefer Void staff over Abysall if E would deal magic damage.

If you are not building penetration items as an assassin, then you aren't taking advantage of her kit as well as you could be.

Rabadons will do more damage than Void staff in every situation. Magus/Nashors Tooth will do more damage than Void staff because of CDR, and is necessary for jungling. Ludicity boots will do more damage than Sorcerer shoes. Lich bane will do more damage than Void staff, until E does magic damage too, for what Lich bane is needed. Abysall is a penetration item. Admittedly Void staff would do more damage than Zhonyas in many situations, but i just prefer the utility/defence.

I think LW is even worse for AD Evelynn than Void staff for AP Evelynn. When i play AD Evelynn i do 50% magic damage. But i think the new Black Cleaver would be good for AD Evelynn. 20% CDR, 400 Health, movement speed and 30% armor reduction for you AND your teammates after a few seconds. It is just way better than LW imo.

Liandries and Youmus is not worth talking about. Eve needs flat AP/AD.

Personally, I build an AD version of Evelynn.

Warrior/Magus + LW + botrk/hydra. + 2 tanky items.

Assassinates squishies extremely easily and can tank on tanks with ease.

Botrk is almost as good as AP-items for assasinating squshys, but it doesn't do much AoE (Q, AAs) in teamfights. If you go full AD afterwards, you will be squishyer than AP Eve, but you will need more time to kill targets, so this doesn't make sence. If you go tanky afterwards, you will have almost no AoE for teamfights. Atm i think Hydra is better because of that. Maybe tanky plus full AoE would be a decent AD Eve build: Cinderhulk+Black Cleaver+Hydra+Iceborn Gauntlet+Mercurys+Randuins. But i would only try it against a full AD team. Building MR and armor is just not worth if I could build full AP instead.

Bears Dont CareApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Bruiser Eve is maybe better for teamfighting than Assasin Eve, but Bruiser Eve doesn't get as much money as Assasin Eve, because she gets less picks. When the enemy team starts to group as 5, it is still better to be an Assasin Eve with 5-6 items than an Bruiser Eve with only 4-5 items, even if a 5-6 item Bruiser Eve would be better. AP Bruiser Eve does not make as much sence as AD Bruiser, this means you have to decide early, which way you want to go, but going for AD-Brusier hurts the pick potential too much imo.

Except that again, Evelynn lacks the tools to be a very effective picker like other popular assasssins such as Leblanc and Zed. SHe has no escape due to the way her tool are designed. Her ultimate is a bruiser type ultimate, and only an initiation tool since it completely lacks a minimum damage component. If you have 5 items as bruiser Evelynn, you can initiate a fight and still kill a squishy easily. AP evelynn cannot initiate a fight, she has no escape and will die very quickly.

300 base damage - 80% AP, this scaling is really bad compared to Eve Q. You need 375 AP to double the base damage, and 750 AP to triple it. Eve triples her Q-damage with 375 AP and quintuples her Q-damage with 750 AP. This means she doesn't need a Voidstaff to increase her Q damage as much as Malzahar for example.

Erm...not quite? Yes, Evelynn's Q damage will double/triple/quadruple itself more quickly than Malzahar, but this is because the damage it has is low! Naturally it will take less AP to double the damage of an ability. AP abilities scale linearly. Her damage slope is always going to be less and have a lower base than Malzahar's. Of course this is not considering the CD.

110% AP, because it applys Arcane blade. And it applys Lich bane, and Nashors tooth. So with Full build it has a 190% AP ratio and does almost 50% magic damage.

Mmkay, you completely ignored what I stated but its fine. Let us assume you have Lichbane + Nashor's + Magus. So that is about 210 AP. 190 lichbane proc + 92 (nashor double proc).

512 damage proc damage considering the base thats 722 damage.

We'll compare it to Hydra + botrk + Warrior

135 bonus AD Hydra on hit + proc ability= 235 proc damage Botrk assuming 1150 hp foe = 299 proc damage from full health 534 proc damage possible

BUT, let us not forget that Evelynn's auto's are much stronger with AD than with full AP and benefits more effectvely from increased attack speed and botrk scales with the game. Ap based procs do not without massive amounts of AP.

LW is ok against squishys because even squshys have high base armor, but LW is not an option for AP Eve, because only 25%-33% is physical damage, and even the E damage is increased more by Lich bane for example.

And Void staff is not that good against squshys. An Abysall scepter does more damage against targets with 0-57 mr than Void staff. And an Abysall scepter is still better for dueling mages than Voidstaff until 150 mr. I am not even sure if I would prefer Void staff over Abysall if E would deal magic damage.

Abyssal sceptor is superior to it yes, but void staff itself actually is pretty good against squishies. Almost all ADC's will build at least a QSS or banshee's veiil, and while abyssal sceptor may provide more damage, Void staff affords you the ability of dealing with tanky champions such as Maokai or Sion or Shyvana who build all tank.

Rabadons will do more damage than Void staff in every situation. Magus/Nashors Tooth will do more damage than Void staff because of CDR, and is necessary for jungling. Ludicity boots will do more damage than Sorcerer shoes. Lich bane will do more damage than Void staff, until E does magic damage too, for what Lich bane is needed. Abysall is a penetration item. Admittedly Void staff would do more damage than Zhonyas in many situations, but i just prefer the utility/defence.

I think LW is even worse for AD Evelynn than Void staff for AP Evelynn. When i play AD Evelynn i do 50% magic damage. But i think the new Black Cleaver would be good for AD Evelynn. 20% CDR, 400 Health, movement speed and 30% armor reduction for you AND your teammates after a few seconds. It is just way better than LW imo.

Right, I forgot black cleaver recently got an update in which case, it would be superior to LW significantly.

Liandries and Youmus is not worth talking about. Eve needs flat AP/AD.

Botrk is almost as good as AP-items for assasinating squshys, but it doesn't do much AoE (Q, AAs) in teamfights. If you go full AD afterwards, you will be squishyer than AP Eve, but you will need more time to kill targets, so this doesn't make sence. If you go tanky afterwards, you will have almost no AoE for teamfights. Atm i think Hydra is better because of that. Maybe tanky plus full AoE would be a decent AD Eve build: Cinderhulk+Black Cleaver+Hydra+Iceborn Gauntlet+Mercurys+Randuins. But i would only try it against a full AD team. Building MR and armor is just not worth if I could build full AP instead.

Sure it is, because AD bruiser evelynn can be used in ALL situations. She can initiate a team fight and kill a squishy with ease. Look above, consider the proc damage, the difference is not significant enough to warrant going full AP just to kill a squishy, not with the on hit capability you can abuse through ravage.

AP evelynn can kill a squishy target faster yes, but AD evelynn can tank a team, initiate a fight, can still pick, and can kill tanks through botrk+BC. Her options are a lot more flexible and she can more easily itemize for penetration than AP evelynn could.

Widder88May 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except that again, Evelynn lacks the tools to be a very effective picker like other popular assasssins such as Leblanc and Zed. SHe has no escape due to the way her tool are designed.

My experience is just completely different. For me Eves passive works as the best picking tool in the game. And W is not that bad for escaping. I have far better result with AP Eve than with other assasins, and better result than with Bruiser Eve.

Erm...not quite? Yes, Evelynn's Q damage will double/triple/quadruple itself more quickly than Malzahar, but this is because the damage it has is low! Naturally it will take less AP to double the damage of an ability. AP abilities scale linearly. Her damage slope is always going to be less and have a lower base than Malzahar's. Of course this is not considering the CD.

How easy it is to duplicate the damage, says something about how to build a champion. In her case: Less tankyness, less penetration, more flat AP/AD. In Malzahars case: More tankyness, more penetration, less flat AP.

And comparing Eve and Malzahars damage output with Q, Eves Q has a 1,5 s CD, while Malzahars having a 9 s CD. This means Eve can do more much more DPS than Malzahar with her Q.

Mmkay, you completely ignored what I stated but its fine. Let us assume you have Lichbane + Nashor's + Magus. So that is about 210 AP. 190 lichbane proc + 92 (nashor double proc).

512 damage proc damage considering the base thats 722 damage.

We'll compare it to Hydra + botrk + Warrior

135 bonus AD Hydra on hit + proc ability= 235 proc damage Botrk assuming 1150 hp foe = 299 proc damage from full health 534 proc damage possible

Nashors Tooth is for me a replacement for Magus as last item. Lets compare Magus+Rabadons+Lich bane with Warrior+Hydra+Botrk

E does 230 base damage.

Magus+Rabadons+Lich bane = 364 AP Lich bane does 113x0,75 = 85 base damage at Level 18 E AP scaling is 160% in this case E does 230 + 85 + 364x1,6 = 897 damage

Warrior+Hydra+Botrk = 140 Bonus AD Lets say the opponent has 2000 max health but only 1000 current health. Botrk does 2x0,08x1000 = 160 damage. Hydras on hit effect does only damage things around the primary target afaik. E does 230 + 160 + 140x1 = 530 damage

BUT, let us not forget that Evelynn's auto's are much stronger with AD than with full AP and benefits more effectvely from increased attack speed and botrk scales with the game.

Yes but opponents will try to kite you, and it is much easier to prevent Eve from hitting AAs than from hitting Qs.

With 364 AP Eves Q does 300 damage. With 140 Bonus-AD Q does only 198 damage. And Magus gives 10% more CDR than Warrior.

Ap based procs do not without massive amounts of AP.

Yes, because of that i buy Rabadons before Lich bane, and Nashors Tooth only as last item replacement for Magus, or if i go mid i just buy a Fiendish codex, sit on it, get 40% CDR early from runes and boots, and get my Nashors Tooth in the late game while selling my CDR-boots for Ludens Echo.

Abyssal sceptor is superior to it yes, but void staff itself actually is pretty good against squishies. Almost all ADC's will build at least a QSS or banshee's veiil, and while abyssal sceptor may provide more damage, Void staff affords you the ability of dealing with tanky champions such as Maokai or Sion or Shyvana who build all tank.

I'm not sure. Shyvana for example will hurt so much without +50 MR. I just want to survive the Shyvana and kill the squishys.

QSS and Banshees are not good against Eve. Eve does some physical damage and banshees can be easily proced by a single Q and QSS active is next to useless. GA is the best defence item against Eve. It has both resistances and just prevents the pick.

Right, I forgot black cleaver recently got an update in which case, it would be superior to LW significantly.

Sure it is, because AD bruiser evelynn can be used in ALL situations. She can initiate a team fight and kill a squishy with ease.

Last time i tried it, i killed a enemy jungle Fizz in my own jungle at Level 3, had a good start but went tanky, while he went AP and deleted my later in the game, because he got much more picks, while i bought armor against a Zed.

Some months ago I played Bruiser Eve against a Full AD team, I could 1vs2 Talon and Riven in the mid game with Frozen Heart and Botrk and Exhaust. In the late game i tried to 1vs1 Talon but he had all armor pen items and the enemy Corki came to help and killed my with his magic damage.

Seriously defensive itemization sucks (except Zhonyas). You have to do everything coordinated with your own team, but Eves passive has so much more potential.

Nameless VoiceApr 28, 20151 votes

I find myself doing quite well with her at the moment, despite the nerfs. I don't think she's that far off from being in a good spot, she just need a tiny bit of love.

At the moment, though, I'm afraid that the top-lane smite trend is going to end up with item 3715 being nerfed hard, which will be a huge blow to jungle Eve (at least the way I play her).

KingKong2350Apr 29, 20151 votes

I like how the guy just down voted everyone who didnt agree with the OP with no reasoning. Eve is in a great spot right now, stop bringing attention to her before they nerf her