@Meddler Can we get some context on Darius nerfs?

2DunksFromHell·Jan 15, 2017·5 votes·12,179 views

Got alot of context on buffs/nerfs/changes so can we talk about why is being changed so suddenly and what are the future plans?

38 Comments

RiotMeddlerJan 15, 201710 votes

Darius has been on our watchlist for a while having been pretty dominant top lane since the pre-season. We initially wondered if it was just Courage of the Colossus being overtuned and whether we should avoid making any changes to him until that had been nerfed. Grasp of the Undying builds seem to be performing just as well on him however, so we concluded we did need to take some power out of Darius himself.

WeatheredJan 15, 20171 votes

Oh shit waddup it's dat within-half-hour response.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to some stuff <3

TheSingularityJan 15, 20171 votes

Hey meddler. What's your opinion on stormraiders, ghost/tp, flash darius? Even with TP instead of ghost this combo of mobility perks seems to nullify his intended weakness (immobility) resulting in an extremely oppressive lane where the opponent is helpless if they aren't one of the select few counters. (granted that's his job, but this takes it to the extreme)

2DunksFromHellJan 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Hey meddler. What's your opinion on stormraiders, ghost/tp, flash darius? Even with TP instead of ghost this combo of mobility perks seems to nullify his intended weakness (immobility) resulting in an extremely oppressive lane where the opponent is helpless if they aren't one of the select few counters. (granted that's his job, but this takes it to the extreme)

Havent stop playing stormraider for months now on darius definetly best keystone

TheSingularityJan 15, 20171 votes

you just can't escape. Flash and he's on you while preserving his own. Run, lel. Commit sepuku, he chases you to hell

5 Stacks GGJan 15, 20177 votes

Have you also thought about when you made ranged minions have less hp it actually buffed his waveclear, making him able to oneshot the ranged caster minions at lvl 9 with little AD it made him stronger for sure too.

also are you confident with the way you are nerfing him on PBE or you feel he'll need more changes?

SlythionJan 15, 20174 votes

any changes planned for Jayce Hecarim or the other champions that have been much more oppressive and have seen more success than Darius lately?

What about Riven's ability to be immune to cc? That bug has been around for awhile but you guys disable Teemo for being able to disappear to fast?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you guys got some changes in that were necessary. Poppy's nerfs and Lucian's buffs were definitely needed, it just seems like you guys have priorities in the wrong places for some things.

McFatalJan 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

any changes planned for or the other champions that have been much more oppressive and have seen more success than Darius lately?

What about Riven's ability to be immune to cc? That bug has been around for awhile but you guys disable Teemo for being able to disappear to fast?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you guys got some changes in that were necessary. Poppy's nerfs and Lucian's buffs were definitely needed, it just seems like you guys have priorities in the wrong places for some things.

poppys nerfs were shit and jayce is untouched for god knows how long and god knows why

RiotMeddlerJan 15, 20179 votes

Vi - We've got some nerfs prepared for Vi, we want to see how the jungle and CotC changes affect her before shipping them though since she'll be one of the most affected.

Hecarim - Similar to Vi, though we haven't prepared a changelist yet (more confident state of the jungle and CotC is what's making him out of line).

Jayce - Jungle/CotC changes shouldn't impact him meaningfully (possibly slightly buff him if anything given some other top laners will end up a bit weaker). Will be assessed again at the start of the 7.3 planning process.

Hello I am BirdJan 15, 20173 votes

Wait you're buffing jayce?

RiotMeddlerJan 15, 20179 votes

Nerfing CotC and jungle XP is probably a small indirect buff to Jayce and other champs who lane against CotC users.

RexSaurJan 15, 201716 votes

{quoted}

Nerfing CotC and jungle XP is probably a small indirect buff to Jayce and other champs who lane against CotC users.

That and the lethality buffs are also another buff for Jayce.

His early game/laning is way too strong atm, and its only going to get worse to play against it next patch, so jayce nerfs should have been shipped with those changes.

Also, more camille nerfs? She still has by far the highest win rate of top lane and her kit is still incredibly overpowered.

Edge of DaybreakJan 15, 20172 votes

I just have a question. Why isn't ahri being touched because she is like a mid lane darius.

Hello I am BirdJan 15, 20173 votes

Ohhh I thought you were giving him a numbers buff and I was about to question your mental sanity.

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 15, 20171 votes

Is Blitz being looked at for some Adjustments? His Kit is unreliable, but when it is, you seem to just destroy. He has the highest ban-rate as support, (Minus Ivern but he's not a bot lane support).

Photos of GhostsJan 15, 20172 votes

Sorry to hijack, but I think if the game has to " last for generations", it probably should start focusing on keeping its new players. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/V4cYsgda-ok-rito-hear-me-out

Illâoi Evê SiônJan 15, 20171 votes

Can you reduce the Zyra Plant Health at level 1 from 4.4 to 4 so we at least have the option of fighting back in early trades? Please, thanks!

SyakamaruJan 15, 20171 votes

I have a question and I could never seem to find the answer on any wiki or whatever, but is darius's bleed passive supposed to proc the movespeed massive on black cleaver? After all, black cleaver's rage passive says that it activates when you deal physical damage, and the bleed is physical. At the moment it doesn't apply it and he is playing fine, just wondering if that was intended or was an oversight.

Photos of GhostsJan 15, 20171 votes

It is supposed to, it's the reason why it was changed to physical

DCYOUNG888Jan 16, 20171 votes

Are there any jungle champions that are struggling right now in the new jungle? I do realize right now that most junglers are controlling the early game a little too much right now, though the problem may have changed with patch 7.1 adjustments.

ReZisT LustJan 15, 20171 votes

Teemo doesnt just go invis he gains a decent attack speed buff so thats alot more dps

ReshiKillimJan 15, 20171 votes

Teemo was disabled for being able to autoattack while stealthed if the bug triggered

DetrisJan 15, 20176 votes

I don't think you realize that no high ELO Darius main takes Grasp anymore. The builds you are looking at are most likely from lower ELO players, and we all know that low ELO players do not know how to play against Darius. Please reconsider nerfing Darius as he is already pretty weak against co-ordinated teams.

PowerOfDrainAgeJan 15, 20171 votes

@Meddler, I believe that yea darius is way strong to fight 1v1 during the early game because of the bonus AD being high but if you go through the current changes for Darius, you should also pull back the Decimate nerf during 5.20 patch (Decimate - Blade width reduced to 220 from 270.), don't you think? That way newer players get to learn to play darius easier but also u dont make darius being broken with his high dmg. It's sometimes pretty difficult to even hit the blade because it's too small and champions with the least mobility available in their kit (yasuo, riven, fizz or any other champion with a gapcloser) can rly avoid it so easily - and I already feel that handle is like doing 0 dmg.

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 15, 20171 votes

Darius is very simple to learn anyways. Sure Darius can struggle against high-mobility top laners, but any enemy who doesn't have 2+ dashes in their kit can struggle against him immensely. Heck even Quinn, the bitch of the sky I've seen struggle against somewhat competent Darius's.

Lukadas1ckMartaJan 15, 20171 votes

Waiting for Lord Dunk to comment on this. Also Darius main here 830k I'm done. I also won't mention Darius W bug on Yorick's cage.

BlackwindyJan 15, 20173 votes

Scientific method - change one variable at a time for maximum precision.

Considering he is sitting a 51.9% winrate now in plat+ and you are nerfing Coc and ghost(the reasons for the spike in his winrate) in the next patch, how about you don't nerf the champion? Especially the stage where he is supposed to shine (early-mid game).

Big LincolnJan 15, 20172 votes

would you consider buffing Darius's late game if you're gonna make his early worse? atm he falls off pretty hard vs coordinated teams, would be nice to be more relevant later on

DormidonJan 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Darius has been on our watchlist for a while having been pretty dominant top lane since the pre-season. We initially wondered if it was just Courage of the Colossus being overtuned and whether we should avoid making any changes to him until that had been nerfed. Grasp of the Undying builds seem to be performing just as well on him however, so we concluded we did need to take some power out of Darius himself.

Well his early game got hit but why would it hit middle game? -10 damage on every level untill 14th. Seriously may be just handicap him a little untill level 9? Or at least 11?

SpideraxeJan 15, 20171 votes

Hi Andrei, just wanted to say hi

DormidonJan 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Darius has been on our watchlist for a while having been pretty dominant top lane since the pre-season. We initially wondered if it was just Courage of the Colossus being overtuned and whether we should avoid making any changes to him until that had been nerfed. Grasp of the Undying builds seem to be performing just as well on him however, so we concluded we did need to take some power out of Darius himself.

You could at least wait a little after CotC nerf! Seriously this would solve the problem. By the way Darius has really low playrate with Grasp of Undying during current patch.

Eskimo503Jan 17, 20171 votes

You are right that Darius needed small nerfs, but as a Darius player its super frustrating to see other strong top lane champions like Riven Jayce Pantheon not get nerfed as well. I'm not sure what we are waiting for with the Jayce nerfs, its been a few months since hes been undeniably too strong in most stages of the game. I really don't mean to flame you because I know the balance job is really hard, just want your thoughts

DHBGrimReaperJan 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Darius has been on our watchlist for a while having been pretty dominant top lane since the pre-season. We initially wondered if it was just Courage of the Colossus being overtuned and whether we should avoid making any changes to him until that had been nerfed. Grasp of the Undying builds seem to be performing just as well on him however, so we concluded we did need to take some power out of Darius himself.

https://gyazo.com/038b9300423ed0a4c44e4e6da27345e6

Grasp winrate is 50.5% compared to collossus 53.92%. Stop catering to silvers, please.

Sound VoltexJan 15, 20174 votes

Darius..is getting nerfed? Welp, once again it's been proven that low elo on balance team surely affects balance negatively. Meddlers initiation post is pure cancer, literally upvoted by silver surfers

Lord DunkJan 15, 20172 votes

I'm absolutely glad you're nerfing him. Don't get me wrong though, the nerf you're pulling out right now? Yeah, these changes are so insignificant that you might've not as well done them- BUT! What you've done is made the lives of actual Darius players so much easier. Even the smallest drop in Darius popularity because "hey, he got nerfed, right?" is a blessing for us all, since now people that can actually see past cleaver+grasp of the undying will have more opportunities to pick the champion up. Well done.

2DunksFromHellJan 15, 20171 votes

Yea thanks alot for responding!