Why does everyone hate Camille's ult so much?

Eternal791·Mar 17, 2017·5 votes·2,817 views

Its not even the most annoying or even best ult in the game. That title (at least for most annoying) belongs to champions like Yasuo, Tryndamere, Ekko, Amumu, Teemo, and probably several others.

Camille's ult just reinforces the fact that she's a 1v1 champ that you shouldn't pick a fight with unless you're with at least one ally (with the exception of a few champs). Right now the only thing the ult is really useful for is keeping lone targets from running away. Its pretty much useless in team fights, and only stays up for 1 second after she dies; thus making it useless for punishing tower dives (which it should still do as its only useful for one thing right now).

Camille as a whole isn't even that annoying really. I'd rather fight a Camille than a Yasuo no matter what champion I'm playing.

72 Comments

RalanrMar 17, 20175 votes

People hate it because it has little to no counterplay (depending on the champion) in a 1v1 fight.

Honestly if she becomes a real big issue in the future, she might get it reworked.

AptestMar 17, 20172 votes

people hate it because they like doing the "me out play me out play me outplay you are shit you have no options" and her ult puts them at the receiving end of this

Eternal791Mar 17, 20172 votes

I get where you're going but I think that was the intention. You're not supposed to 1v1 Camille if you want to live. 1v1's are her domain and unless you're someone like Fiora, you don't come into Camille's domain.

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

And you still don't see the problem with that?

Eternal791Mar 17, 20172 votes

There is no problem. Just don't fight her unless you have backup. If you keep that in mind while against a Camille, she most likely won't get fed and won't be able to do a whole lot in team fights (which are hard for her even if she is fed). Camille's strength's are all in 1v1's and her weaknesses are in team fights. Thinking about it, people probably hate Camille because she's different than everyone else in that aspect. Instead of having strengths and weaknesses in one area, she has strengths in one area and weaknesses in another.

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

She's not unique in those aspects. The thing that makes her "unique" is that she's the only one who literally prevents you from escaping. Outside of that, others that are like her:

MasterYi Fiora Yasuo XinZhao Riven and (when played a certain way) LeeSin .

Notice how most of them have some small amount of CC (not all of them), but you can actually try to escape them? THAT is the problem. Just saying "There is no problem" only tells me that you either have a lot of bias toward her because you like playing her, or that you can't recognize a gameplay problem when it's in front of you.

MissingKayoMar 17, 20171 votes

Yeah, because Camille's ultimate suppresses you. Or, you know, you could just run around and make her chase you and waste time.

HäßlichMar 18, 20171 votes

It doesn't have to be a suppress to prevent you from escaping. When did anyone even mention suppression? We didn't. What you are doing is a fallacious argument.

"Just run around" doesn't help when she can kill you easily anyway. This is possibly the worst comment I've seen regarding Camille in a balance thread.

MissingKayoMar 18, 20171 votes

Camille is melee range, surprise. If she doesn't ult next to some wall or hookable object, she doesn't have any gapclosers. W is broadcasted and delayed and avoidable.

But I guess her ultimate just magically gives her 9000 range autoattacks that deal 100% max health true damage each. And I guess it isn't your fault and you don't deserve to die for being out of position like an idiot.

The circlejerk has reached a whole new level, lul.

HäßlichMar 18, 20171 votes

Still relying on fallacy to make your case? Thanks for the laugh, I guess.

MissingKayoMar 18, 20171 votes

lul when ignorant players try to talk back

Warlord ScrapMar 17, 20174 votes

High 90% pick ban rate in the lcs with an ability to effectively be in three roles and an overloaded kit i feel the should remove some thinga from her or shes just gonna be nerfed into the ground

abca98Mar 17, 20171 votes

I have seen her top/ jungle/mid and even went to support once just for the ridiculous amount of utility that ulti has.

Warlord ScrapMar 17, 20172 votes

havent seen her mid i was referring to top jungle sup so i guess that makes 4. My suggestions are mainly to her e completely remove the stun and allow it to be minion blocked. Cause right now she way too overloaded and they would either have to nerf her till shes pathetically week or rework her from the ground up.

Eternal791Mar 17, 20172 votes

Removing the stun and/or making it minion blocked would make it so she can't do anything. She actually heavily relies on that stun, especially early game.

Warlord ScrapMar 17, 20171 votes

but it would allow a lot more counter play and not it allow it to be saved cause she messed up

MissingKayoMar 17, 20171 votes

What are you even talking about? You don't even know what you're talking about.

Eternal791Mar 17, 20171 votes

It would make it straight up useless. It has plenty of counter play how it is right now. She can be cc'd while flying through the air and it's really not that hard to dodge.

Warlord ScrapMar 18, 20171 votes

not if shes using it to escape and not every champ has hard cc actually alot of top laners dont

Eternal791Mar 18, 20171 votes

She actually quite heavily relies on the stun of her E to be able to fight properly (especially early game). If her E has no stun and can be minion blocked, she'll have a really hard time getting close enough to her target and having enough time to get both or even one of her Q's off.

JbelsMar 17, 20173 votes

It's most likely the removal of being able to control where you go despite being able to move. Camille's kit fights you on a psychological level, and her VO adds to it. It almost seems like everything she says is meant to tilt you. She actively insults you or questions your ability to do things as she is does her things to you. Her ult is no exception. "You will leave when I permit it" . "Where do you think you're going?". "Who said you could leave?" . It almost feels like Camille was designed around trying to make people more likely to tilt and make bad decisions by constantly spouting dialogue designed to piss people off

Eternal791Mar 17, 20172 votes

I never really thought of it that way, but you're probably right. That's also probably why I like playing her so much. Though on the restricting where you go thing, doesn't Jarvan's ult do the same thing? In fact Camille's ult is almost a complete copy of Jarvan's.

RexSaurMar 17, 20173 votes

Because her ult is not a 1v1 tool, its a "i kill you for free" tool.

Basically she waits her jungle to come top side, Es from fog of war and presses R, and now you cannot do anything about her and her jungler beating you up for 4 seconds, basically you're dead.

And her kit is still massively overloaded, her design is so atroucious that it makes kalista look like a healthy champion.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20172 votes

Or your toplane just walks up and helps…?

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

No, he's assuming you are playing Camille top, and wait for your jungler to gank. Then you ult, and it's free kill because there's nothing to counter the ult.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20172 votes

So then the enemy top just walks up. Unless you're Soraka or some shit like that, you have no reason to be instadeleted before your top can walk the 3 feet it takes.

HäßlichMar 18, 20171 votes

You ARE the top. What? Are you doing duo top lanes now? Wtf are you even talking about?

Camille (top) + enemy jungle vs you = free kill, because you can't escape Camille's ult.

Not sure why you would wait for "your top" (aka, YOU), or why that would make a difference. The only way you're surviving that is if your jungler just happens to already be there--not walking to you, not about to gank, ALREADY THERE. Even that only makes it a 2v2, and your survival is not guaranteed.

D3m37r1Mar 17, 20173 votes

Something something adcs should be able to wander off on their own. Same reason people hate assassins basically.

Taliyah RocksMar 17, 20173 votes

I'm one of the few that find Camille not annoying, i don't play her. But her ult combined with her mobility leaves no counterplay unless you can actualy survive or outtrade her.

Flash should allow you to get out at the very least. Using a 140-90 sec cooldown ult (and that's without CDR which you'll likely take) to force the enemy to burn their 300 sec CD Flash should be a fair enough trade.

She feels like a more balanced Fiora, but with an unbalanced ult.

Eternal791Mar 17, 20172 votes

I think it would be okay if you could flash out once the ult is up but not while she's flying through the air, or vice versa. Though currently any champion with a decent knock back can counter her ult pretty easily by knocking her out of it.

Part of why I don't find Camille annoying might just be because I play her a lot and know what to do and what not to do against her, while not many people play her so they don't know these things as well.

HäßlichMar 17, 20171 votes

It's because most champions don't have tools to deal with this particular ult.

KaiokoMar 17, 20172 votes

A great Camille is definitely noticeable. The ult is annoying because the fact that there is absolutely no room to counter play. Combine that with the fact that she can combo it with one of the greatest gap closers in the game and you're not going anywhere and will be caught even if you kept your distance.

Yasuo's ult can be dodged, tryn's ult only affects him as does Ekko's, amumu ult is strong but it's his entire kit, Teemo ult is annoying but the chance of you getting bursted by it is low.

Eternal791Mar 17, 20174 votes

The thing with Camille's ult is I usually see its victims just walk toward one wall and stop moving which is bad. You need to keep moving around to make it harder to be hit. That's your counter play right there. It may not be much but there's several champs that make Camille's ult useless: like Tryndamere with his ult.

Btw the reason I said Tryndamere's ult is annoying is because it makes it so you can't do anything against this big lumbering guy who can two-shot you (depending on who you are). Ekko's ult just erases some of the damage you dealt to him while damaging you.

BeatzBoyFTWMar 17, 20172 votes

Cz why the fuck do I deserved to get punished simply because Camille just points-&-clicks me with her ult?

Avoid fighting her? Good luck even trying to escape with that long-ass ranged dash of her, for whatever reason Riot's thinking of giving her that bullshit.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20172 votes

It's called either CCing her, or just outlasting her ult. She's a toplane champion, so, theoretically, you should be playing a tank against her. If not, most toplane non-tanks have some ability to survive: Teemo can blind her, and turn her own arena into a trap…for her; Aatrox has his sustain; Ekko has his ult; Gangplank has oranges and barrels; Kled can just be Kled and survive…you get the point?

Yaśuo MainMar 17, 20171 votes

What if I dive her, and before she is killed by me, she ults me and I die to the tower because counterplay?

The Sword SaintMar 17, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YZQXAVBG,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2017-03-17T19:15:26.483+0000)

What if I dive her, and before she is killed by me, she ults me and I die to the tower because counterplay?

That's you making a bad play. You always have to respect spells of the enemy you want to dive. Would you dive an ammumu or something if they had ult up too? No you wouldn't, not if you would die from tower shots. Same deal here.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20172 votes

I'm not sure if that's sarcasm. If it isn't, then you're an idiot for diving her. It's like diving Lux , Morgana , Teemo , or anyone else with a stun or strong slow. Would you dive a Nasus with a rank 5 W, no matter how low health he is? No.

MissingKayoMar 17, 20172 votes

If she dies, the cage goes down. Your fault.

Yaśuo MainMar 18, 20171 votes

The cage stays up even if she dies I believe.

MissingKayoMar 18, 20171 votes

That was changed extremely quickly.

Yaśuo MainMar 18, 20171 votes

Well thanks for telling me that, it was really the only reason I hated Camille. This changes everything for me.

MissingKayoMar 18, 20171 votes

No problem!

DrCyanideMar 17, 20172 votes

I play a lot of immobile mages, particularly Xerath . What's immobile mage 101 for when someone jumps on your face? Stun them, if your spells are fast fire them, then run away as fast as you can.

Camille's ult makes her untargetable while she's starting it, which is usually right at the "ok, this person is too close for comfort, stun them" point, meaning the stun wiffs. That's something that can be overcome with practice in the matchup, but it's annoying none the less.

Then there's the fact that you can't runaway (part 2 of immobile mage 101). You saved your summoner spells to be able to get away when things went from bad to worse, but Camille's ult negates that possibility. Flashing to the other side of her isn't helpful, you're still in melee range with every spell you have on cooldown.

"But Positioning! Where are your teammates!"

I'm Xerath , I'm on the far back line so I can get my ult off. My teammates are on the front line or just behind the front line. Me being in position is me also being out of position as far as Camille is concerned.

Xerath's stun is 0.5 seconds at point blank range, which is basically worthless when I've got to survive a 4 second cage fight. Even if I zhonyas after the stun wears off I've still got a second left for this Camille to tear my face off, during which time she's going to have a magic damage shield up. Should I survive that cage fight, there's a good chance she'll have her slow+movement speed boost up shortly or she'll have her hookshot+stun available. Depending on how the rest of the fight went, my teammates are either chasing down kills on the rest of the team or retreating with their tails between their leg.

So... yeah. Camille's just miserable to play against for someone in my position. That's how she's designed. Yes, divers are counters to immobile mages, but Camille feels particularly oppressive, even by diver standards.

The Sword SaintMar 17, 20172 votes

You shouldn't be using your ult in a teamfight as xerath, it's for sieges and sniping fleeing enemies just like caitlin. You're supposed to be with your team throwing out your spells on cooldown and only slightly behind your frontline so that they can easily see and turn on someone like camille if they dive the backline.

That goes for most mages in general, especially the immobile artillery type.

DrCyanideMar 17, 20172 votes

It depends on how the team fight starts and where you at that time. You see similar decision making with Jhin players in the LCS, sometimes they're autoing up close the whole fight, other times they're in the back line ulting for almost the whole fight.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20172 votes

Because people can't, for some reason, pick Akali and press W. 8 seconds invisibility>4 second arena.

Also, people seem to have this allergy to being a team and taking a tank. They can't realize that sustain or armor is enough to survive her. Treat her leg-sweep like a Darius Q (either get the fuck out of it entirely, or run right up to her to take basically no damage), and you've got your lane made for you more than a Nasus against Yorick.

Alesya369Mar 17, 20172 votes

Zhonya will give her only 1,5 seconds of ult and any APC can buy it.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20172 votes

That, too. But I was mostly referencing invisibility. Zhonya's would do (almost) just as well. As would fighting back. Or actually running in circles to avoid her.

Eternal791Mar 17, 20172 votes

This. I've had someone run in circles and waste my ult. I've also had an Akali go invisible inside my ult.

When it comes down to it, Camille simply counters a lot of champs but at the same time, has plenty of champs that counter her. She can't even 1v1 a Fiora at any stage of the game unless that Fiora completely sucks; and even then the Fiora should still out damage and out sustain Camille. Yasuo is pretty good against her early game, though she'll kick his butt later if she's not too terribly behind. Poppy can counter her pretty hard, and so can Nasus and Illaoi. Teemo is near invincible to Camille thanks to his blind. And like I've said several times before, any champ with a knockback or throw (Poppy, Vayne, Tristana, Janna, Lee Sin, SInged, Volibear, etc.) can cancel Camille's ult.