Anyone else notice that Sion is really strong right now?

TaoistMaster·Jan 31, 2015·6 votes·1,758 views

I think is very strong right now. I have been spamming him in ranked and done incredibly well.

My success with him boils down to 2 strengths:

With tele and his ult I can pretty much always be in top lane farming, defending, or pushing. I can always get the gold i need to be a relevant team fighter because if i get pushed out of lane i can easily come right back.
Does sion lose a teamfight? Joking aside, he is an AMAZING team fighter. Lock down the adc with your chain CC combo from your ult, E, and Q. CC multiple enemies, aoe shield blast does decent damage and his passive contributes to a strong all in team fight.

If you are looking for a top laner that can just take over in teamfights start playing some

47 Comments

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20153 votes

I don't think it has caught on in NA yet.

It will.

then there will be QQ.

then nerfs.

then we won't hear of sion for a long time.

hopefully i am wrong he is a blast to play right now.

Only Play DariusJan 31, 20153 votes

Sion is not that easy to use. His Q is very hard to land. His E requires him to kick a minion to get the full benefit. His W requires you to be right next to the enemy, and if the shield gets depleted then you can't pop it for damage. And his ult can be pretty hard to land on certain champions, not to mention the slightest bit of lag makes his ult the most unresponsive ability in the game by far (RIP east coast Sion's). He takes much more skill to play than people think, but he has infinite stacking health potential and a 36sec ult cooldown at max rank, so if you can get to late game he can be downright scary. He is also very fun to play as, too.

manliestdinoJan 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YW7pcJZe,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-01-31T15:58:00.888+0000)

Sion is not that easy to use. His Q is very hard to land. His E requires him to kick a minion to get the full benefit. His W requires you to be right next to the enemy, and if the shield gets depleted then you can't pop it for damage. And his ult can be pretty hard to land on certain champions, not to mention the slightest bit of lag makes his ult the most unresponsive ability in the game by far (RIP east coast Sion's). He takes much more skill to play than people think, but he has infinite stacking health potential and a 36sec ult cooldown at max rank, so if you can get to late game he can be downright scary. He is also very fun to play as, too.

You can e by itself, shorter rage, but it gives a better slow and let's you land q. You can also release q earlier for some damage. Your q can also zone creeps (against Nasus). W health shield could use it like when it pops by not activating or gets depleted it pops. Super tanky with items and w.

Pvt Yong TaiFeb 1, 20151 votes

E Slow is same, but gives extra 20% armor reduction, which is great for marking enemies in teamfights for your ADC.

Knight SoIaire Jan 31, 20152 votes

sion was always good post his relaunch

RazorTSJan 31, 20152 votes

his kit is strong, but hes buggy as hell, he gets stuck everywhere, his q buggs out and is enemy team dependant situationaly strong skill, his base hp is very very low so if you get denied top you are toast and if you go jungle you will lose half stack you would have before jungle change pretty horrible >_

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

his kit is strong, but hes buggy as hell, he gets stuck everywhere, his q buggs out and is enemy team dependant situationaly strong skill, his base hp is very very low so if you get denied top you are toast and if you go jungle you will lose half stack you would have before jungle change pretty horrible >_

i use %hp quints. makes his W passive much more noticeable.

RazorTSJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i use %hp quints. makes his W passive much more noticeable.

I use %hp runes and masteries on him and any other HP reliant champ, extra 12% hp is nice, but still below what you get on other champs. For me he was always a champ i can get free hp from his passive, now he needs his passive to cover his 300-400 hp deficit on most toplaners and junglers

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I use %hp runes and masteries on him and any other HP reliant champ, extra 12% hp is nice, but still below what you get on other champs. For me he was always a champ i can get free hp from his passive, now he needs his passive to cover his 300-400 hp deficit on most toplaners and junglers

to be fair, he does have a better shield than all the other top laners and junglers.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20152 votes

he shouldnt get a passive that gives hp, a shield that scales with hp, AND as good base hp as the other champs.

he has to have a tradeoffs.

Only Play DariusJan 31, 20151 votes

His tradeoff is that he is squishier than jinx early game. No joke, her base health is higher than Sion's, go check if you want to.

Sion has to be at the very frontline in order to contribute to fights, and without defensive items he is SQUISHY AS HELL.

I repeat, and yes you heard right, the undead juggernaut is SQUISHY. Either he needs to buy defensive items or stack like crazy, because his built-in defense is barely any better than that of non-tanky champs like Fiora and Malzahar.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YW7pcJZe,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-01-31T16:39:17.714+0000)

His tradeoff is that he is squishier than jinx early game. No joke, her base health is higher than Sion's, go check if you want to.

Sion has to be at the very frontline in order to contribute to fights, and without defensive items he is SQUISHY AS HELL.

I repeat, and yes you heard right, the undead juggernaut is SQUISHY. Either he needs to buy defensive items or stack like crazy, because his built-in defense is barely any better than that of non-tanky champs like Fiora and Malzahar.

well, good thing he scales well with HP items right?

and good thing he gets a shield to help those low base stats out right?

but yes, you are right.

he would be too op if he wasnt though

SEKAIJan 31, 20151 votes

People do realise, at least on OCE for the most part 1 out of 5 spectate live games, there is a Sion in it.

Hasztalan2Jan 31, 20151 votes

He is useless as hell. It's just ppl overreact shit allways.

Cenobite AzazielJan 31, 20151 votes

He can deal decent damage with e and w being tanky as hell. He can be countered in lane. Try him as a suport. His poke works really good. Aside from that his ult can be stopped by the enemy team front line and will deal no damage. Sion can be kited to death if he is ignored in tfs. You are seeing a lot of him because of gnar.

Only Play DariusJan 31, 20151 votes

Sion counter's gnar?

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YW7pcJZe,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-01-31T15:58:42.658+0000)

Sion counter's gnar?

in my experience... yes

sion's ability combos wreck mini gnar. and its easy for sion to keep mega gnar off him.

and sion's teamfight is better than gnars. even though gnars is pretty damn good.

it is ultimately a skill match up. think it favors sion though.

Only Play DariusJan 31, 20153 votes

Never would have thought that Sion of all champs would be able to stand against Gnar , the kiting kancer of top lane.

You know what, Sion has the lowest base HP in the game, and Gnar relies a lot on that bullshit %HP damage that was crammed into his kit, so the magic damage Sion takes is reduced, as i'm pretty sure Sion's built-in MR is still equal to or greater than that of most other champions.

Or am I just an idiot?

kitcat300Jan 31, 20152 votes

Sion's base health at level 1 is 542. The real lowest is Anivia with 467.

However, he does have the 4th lowest health per level, 73. the lowest being 70 per level. Also Anivia

At level 18, with 1784, and 2 health per minion, it only takes about 100 minion kills just to break even with most other fighters, and that's not counting that he gets 10 health from large enemies and champions.

Pvt Yong TaiFeb 1, 20151 votes

It's mostly because of his E harass being longer than Gnar's harass. He can also CS like that as well, and if things go especially favorably, he can even zone Gnar out of lane entirely. All with just his E. Crazy, huh?

qetzelJan 31, 20152 votes

I like that you didn't write "off of". Thank you for making me happy.

NarasimhaJan 31, 20152 votes

Mini Gnar can play with Sion for days. but Sion is actually one of the few champions who can go toe-to-toe with Mega gnar.

FeathermaneJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Mini Gnar can play with Sion for days. but Sion is actually one of the few champions who can go toe-to-toe with Mega gnar.

And that's the problem, he's like a permanent Mega Gnar, spamming AOE knockups and no combination of two abilites can even break through his shield. The sooner he revisits the grave, the better.

NarasimhaJan 31, 20152 votes

Well the knockup is heavily telegraphed. And the shield is incredibly lackluster early game. Sion's is supposed to shine in team fights, and thats exactly what he does. He doesn't tend to win a lot of duels simply because, unless his opponent stands and waits for his Q, his damage isn't that great. But his constant AOE damage and high cc make him a high threat in team fights.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

And that's the problem, he's like a permanent Mega Gnar, spamming AOE knockups and no combination of two abilites can even break through his shield. The sooner he revisits the grave, the better.

problem?!

thats the fun part about sion!

if you want to be mega gnar the whole game you can play sion.

want to be mini gnar the whole game?

then go worship satan Teemo

Only Play DariusJan 31, 20152 votes

Sion is squishy early game because of his extremely low base HP, walking away from his shield or popping it will prevent it from damaging you, and if you are unable to dodge his Q in the laning phase, then you might need to reconsider your style of play. However if you can't dodge his Q because he kicked a minion in your face, then i'm sorry but he deserves to land a full channel on that Q because you just got outplayed. Landing a minion hit on an opponent with Sion's E is one of the hardest skills to land in the game and he deserves to be rewarded for doing so.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YW7pcJZe,comment-id=00050000000100000002,timestamp=2015-01-31T16:57:59.685+0000)

Sion is squishy early game because of his extremely low base HP, walking away from his shield or popping it will prevent it from damaging you, and if you are unable to dodge his Q in the laning phase, then you might need to reconsider your style of play. However if you can't dodge his Q because he kicked a minion in your face, then i'm sorry but he deserves to land a full channel on that Q because you just got outplayed. Landing a minion hit on an opponent with Sion's E is one of the hardest skills to land in the game and he deserves to be rewarded for doing so.

and when you land him E.. the Q does more damage because of the armor shred :)

his kit is strong and has counterplay. makes it a lot of cancer free fun :)

Only Play DariusJan 31, 20151 votes

Ok maybe the armor shred is a little too high, but honestly with smart positioning, you can make it so Sion literally never lands a single minion on you, so you get a reduced slow and avoid the armor shred altogether. Sion's armor shred is not easy to land armor shred like it is with XinZhao

Cenobite AzazielJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Mini Gnar can play with Sion for days. but Sion is actually one of the few champions who can go toe-to-toe with Mega gnar.

Not at all. E poke hurts gnar way too much. Sion has the upper hand in farming during lane phase.

Silents429Jan 31, 20151 votes

Wait Mega Gnar was suppose to be threatening enough where you say "Few champions can go toe to toe" Who the hell can't fight him? He gains a little health and loses is mobility, whenever a Mega Gnar comes out, they are fucked because now he can't hop away from me.

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20151 votes

He gains a little health

He also gains AD, MR, and armor. There are very few champions that can go in a full fight against Mega Gnar. I'd be happy to help you if you'd care to name any that you think beat him though.

Silents429Feb 1, 20151 votes

Off the top of my head, Garen, Yorick, Trundle and Volibear.

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20151 votes

Garen and Trundle, yes. Garen's silence hurts Sion a lot, and Trundle is an anti-tank.

Yorick is a no, since Sion can farm his ghouls for extra health. Yorick wins early as he does with almost everyone, but he falls off too hard by the end of the laning phase, especially if Sion grabs armor. Voli is a bit more of a skill match up, but it generally tilts toward Sion. Voli has to play very aggressively, and Sion is usually able to counterattack afterwards since Voli has no way of interrupting his skills. Plus, Sion's shield is a direct counter to Voli's execute bite.

Silents429Feb 1, 20151 votes

Aye lad, talkin about Mega Gnar not Sion :P

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20151 votes

...I totally knew that >.> .>

Well not much changes, honestly.

Garen's silence still stops Mega Gnar. And while Mega's AAs do hurt, his abilities are the main source of his strength Trundle is naturally still strong, his ult being a direct counter to Mega Gnar.

Yorick wins early, but after a few levels is still unable to compete. Mega Gnar's AOE + hard cc abilities means he can usually kill Yorick's ghouls while also hitting Yorick at the same time. This hurts Yorick's playstyle badly.

Voli vs Mega still favors Mega. Voli lacks the damage to kill Mega, unless he goes for a very offensive build, which is rare. Assuming they both build normally, Mega can usually beat Voli until late game, where Voli can outlast Mega's duration.

doubleguacJan 31, 20151 votes

As someone who plays both Gnar and Sion, I think this is a pretty easy lane for Sion to at least go even in.

Mini gnar is crazy squishy at early levels, and has no sustain. If you're good at landing your E, you can easily harass him out of lane.

Meanwhile, you're too tanky for him to burst in Mega Gnar. He's also incredibly easy to land your chain CC on, if your jungler comes to gank.

Eventually, once you both have built some tank items, it just becomes a farm lane. You can pop him up with a Q if he commits too hard to auto attack harass, or just scream at him with your E and walk away. You both have piles of wave clear (at least when he's in mega form), so you'll probably both just be instaclearing waves then backing off. Neither party has much kill potential past the ten minute mark.

Unless he rushes a big offensive item like BotRK, in which case you can keep harassing him out of lane by screaming minions into his face.

DWT12345Jan 31, 20151 votes

unless you build him in a specific way, item 3257 item 3022 item 3071 his passive is usually useless. It gives the enemy a good time to get away during the transformation, and pretty much any cc at all completely counters him. His Q is actually pretty strong, and can easily be chained with other abilities. His W is absolutely wrecking, since it gains damage every time you stack your passive. His e is an unusual poke ability that is great for ganks or chasing down the enemy. His ultimate dosent deal much damage, but its mostly the utility that makes it so great. Knock up, plus a shit ton of mobility.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

unless you build him in a specific way, his passive is usually useless. It gives the enemy a good time to get away during the transformation, and pretty much any cc at all completely counters him. His Q is actually pretty strong, and can easily be chained with other abilities. His W is absolutely wrecking, since it gains damage every time you stack your passive. His e is an unusual poke ability that is great for ganks or chasing down the enemy. His ultimate dosent deal much damage, but its mostly the utility that makes it so great. Knock up, plus a shit ton of mobility.

he doesnt need Pen boots for his passive.

i've discovered item 3025 and having HP stacked to work the best. you get an IBG proc with your passive. it is better than mallet because the mallet is a pain to build.

always build a black cleaver on sion.

mainly for what he says in game after you buy it ;) (no, it is also core on him for obvious reasons)

kitcat300Jan 31, 20151 votes

item 3057 Is especially good on Sion. Next to Cho'gath and Skarner, he has one of the highest base AD stats in the game.

doubleguacJan 31, 20151 votes

I've been playing him a ton recently. Sion is strong as hell right now, and really fun.

He's a bit buggy though. His E in particular is really unreliable. Sometimes minions will, for no reason that I can discern, fly half the distance they are supposed to. The hit box also seems really wonky. Sometimes I will nail someone with a minion and they wont take damage. Sometimes it will appear that I have missed a champion, but they will still take the damage and get slowed.

Given that I level E first in lane, and it's my main source of power, this unreliability can be pretty annoying.

I think his biggest problem right now, though, is how easy he is to counterpick. Hyper mobile champions like Zed, Kalista, and Leblanc are all incredibly difficult to land anything on. A lot of popular supports make his life hell (thresh can flay your Q non-stop, blitz has three skills that cancel your Q, etc.). He's pretty easy to counterpick in lane too. He has no dueling or trading power against high sustain bruisers like Irelia or Rek'Sai. He's basically a poke champion in lane, so people who can sustain through his poke give him a ton of trouble.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I've been playing him a ton recently. Sion is strong as hell right now, and really fun.

He's a bit buggy though. His E in particular is really unreliable. Sometimes minions will, for no reason that I can discern, fly half the distance they are supposed to. The hit box also seems really wonky. Sometimes I will nail someone with a minion and they wont take damage. Sometimes it will appear that I have missed a champion, but they will still take the damage and get slowed.

Given that I level E first in lane, and it's my main source of power, this unreliability can be pretty annoying.

I think his biggest problem right now, though, is how easy he is to counterpick. Hyper mobile champions like Zed, Kalista, and Leblanc are all incredibly difficult to land anything on. A lot of popular supports make his life hell (thresh can flay your Q non-stop, blitz has three skills that cancel your Q, etc.). He's pretty easy to counterpick in lane too. He has no dueling or trading power against high sustain bruisers like Irelia or Rek'Sai. He's basically a poke champion in lane, so people who can sustain through his poke give him a ton of trouble.

try maxing Q first.

doubleguacJan 31, 20151 votes

I think E is the best skill to max initially. It costs half as much mana as Q. It gives him just as much if not more wave clear. It's a spammable long range poke. And the slow scales really well with level, which makes it easier to follow up with a Q or R.

It's just so much more versatile and reliable than Q. Sure, a fully charged level 5 Q is going to deal a ton of damage to a level 9 opponent. But I'd rather be able to reliably poke them out of lane then dump all my early power into a skill that's so easy to dodge and cancel.

With the 50% bonus, his E deals 315 base damage and costs 35 mana, all from a massive range. His Q deals about 200 (+1.2 AD) with a 1 second charge, and costs 65 mana. So, for almost double the mana cost, you'll do about the same damage after charging for a full second. If you want to deal more damage than the E, you are going to have to charge for a long time, which is, again, incredibly unreliable.

Leveling Q first definitely gives him better all-in though. If you land a long range R on someone, and chain it into a highly charged Q, you are going to annihilate their health bar in the early/mid game.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Leveling Q first definitely gives him better all-in though. If you land a long range R on someone, and chain it into a highly charged Q, you are going to annihilate their health bar in the early/mid game.

exactly

DrukyulJan 31, 20151 votes

I've never seen a Sion do well against opponents that put even half a thought into dodging his abilities, unless his team is already so far ahead that it doesn't matter either way.

TaoistMasterJan 31, 20151 votes

slow them with E, have W already charging, and get off Q as long as you can while they are slowed. Pop W when you can.

rinse and repeat.