i am convinced riots balance team is trolling at this point.

lolipopevelynn·Aug 8, 2018·114 votes·19,776 views

a 100% bonus AD damage increase on yas R. 2 straight buffs to lee before the dust even settles on his first MASSIVE buff. Hecarim buffs despite him being perfectly fine and appropriately strong in the jungle atm and a orianna nerf out of fucking nowhere. unbelievable.

but hey, since zoe is finally getting deleted from mid lane next patch, instead of actually fixing her kit through mechanic changes rather than number tweaking, people might overlook and excuse these changes right?. what a joke of a company.

74 Comments

SugeMinPikkAug 8, 201837 votes

They know everyone will flip shit to any Yasuo buff, so there's probably something else they don't want people noticing

######btw with 5 items and level 18 the buff is only about 230 damage on an ult

BlakiepugAug 8, 20187 votes

{quoted}

They know everyone will flip shit to any Yasuo buff, so there's probably something else they don't want people noticing

######btw with 5 items and level 18 the buff is only about 230 damage on an ult

Probably trying to cover up that their tank "buffs" are actually tank nerfs. :/

Seriously, why are two of my favorite champions (Naut and Tahm) being nerfed when they are already struggling and have been for so long? I hate that Riot comes out and tells the community "dw dw we're buffing tanks" but then nerfs them and hopes the community doesn't notice. >:(

WeenswAug 9, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Probably trying to cover up that their tank "buffs" are actually tank nerfs. :/

Seriously, why are two of my favorite champions (Naut and Tahm) being nerfed when they are already struggling and have been for so long? I hate that Riot comes out and tells the community "dw dw we're buffing tanks" but then nerfs them and hopes the community doesn't notice. >:(

Haven't you have their mentality figured out by now?

Offense = good. Defense = bad. Big damage numbers = cool and entertaining to play. Hard to kill = Toxic. One shot = celebrity status. Never die = boring.

Rathar DashingAug 9, 20182 votes

How are the changes to Leona, Amumu or Rammus possibly considered nerfs? They are strictly buffs from any way I look at it.

DracocrashAug 9, 20183 votes

The leona changes are hard NERFS. Idk how you could possibly think they are buffs.

Rammus and amumu are buffs, ill give you that.

Rathar DashingAug 9, 20181 votes

Leona on the PBE: Eclipse (W) Cooldown changed from [14 at all ranks] to [14/13/12/11/10]

How is that a nerf, exactly? What, is she gonna run out of mana faster?

Sion, too, strictly gains more HP from his passive.

giantZorgAug 9, 20182 votes

They forgot to remove the reduced damage on W from the first iteration before the last PBE update, which would be considered a nerf. And at least during laning phase, you do need to watch out for your mana when you have to engage more than once using all your spells.

BlakiepugAug 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YO3t9JAh,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2018-08-09T05:38:44.842+0000)

How are the changes to Leona, Amumu or Rammus possibly considered nerfs? They are strictly buffs from any way I look at it.

I was mainly talking about Tahm Kench and Nautilus as noted in my post. I haven't looked at the other tank changes much myself but I have heard from others on the Boards that Leona's changes are concerning to say the least.

TempName54846Aug 8, 201811 votes

btw with 5 items and level 18 the buff is only about 230 damage on an ult

just wait for a new yasuo build, something along the lines of stormrazor duskblade for 1 shoots instead of dps.

TehNACHOAug 9, 20181 votes

Can't help but feel like that would be messy, or at least overkill.

If someone else sets up his knock up for him, and let's say it's a single squishy target, well it really wouldn't matter what (viable) build he's using. Or on the other hand if it's multiple targets, due to how his Q and his R placement functions, he's not exactly looking at a clear shot at hitting any particular target he would like.

As for 1v1 scenarios, he doesn't have a kit like Wukong or Quinn which would allow him to fly out of nowhere and smash someone.

At best it would be a gimmick build, +100% AD on his ult or otherwise.

TempName54846Aug 9, 20181 votes

it would be a split push build much like tryndamere, he already split pushes but now you would just get deleted by walking in range rather than having a chance of fighting him.

KoKobotoAug 9, 20187 votes

"Only 230 damage on an ult"

The steam lifeAug 10, 20181 votes

At the very most though?

WeenswAug 9, 20183 votes

{quoted}

They know everyone will flip shit to any Yasuo buff, so there's probably something else they don't want people noticing

######btw with 5 items and level 18 the buff is only about 230 damage on an ult

His ult is AOE.

RanmaruAug 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

They know everyone will flip shit to any Yasuo buff, so there's probably something else they don't want people noticing

######btw with 5 items and level 18 the buff is only about 230 damage on an ult

Why dont we just do that to every balanced champ? its only 230 damage! Lets give teemo +50 range its only 50 range! Lets give lux 100 extra mana level 1 its just mana lol!!

The steam lifeAug 10, 20181 votes

You do realize though that before that at level 6 it’ll be like an 8 damage buff right.

RanmaruAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The steam life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YO3t9JAh,comment-id=000200050000,timestamp=2018-08-10T05:46:28.943+0000)

You do realize though that before that at level 6 it’ll be like an 8 damage buff right.

At level 6, The thing is its a scaling buff.

The steam lifeAug 14, 20181 votes

Yeah I understand this but considering he has a 47% wr right now and its a buff that does literally nothing until like 15 minutes into the game its really not wild

PooWhoAug 8, 201837 votes

I just can't believe people go to their 805 job to BALANCE A VIDEO GAME, and this is what they come up with. I can't wrap my head behind how someone can sit there for 8 hours a day, thinking of the BEST balance decisions, and this meta is created. The artists at Riot Games are great though.

BlakiepugAug 8, 201824 votes

{quoted}

I just can't believe people go to their 805 job to BALANCE A VIDEO GAME, and this is what they come up with. I can't wrap my head behind how someone can sit there for 8 hours a day, thinking of the BEST balance decisions, and this meta is created. The artists at Riot Games are great though.

Yeah I feel bad for the rest or the people who work at Riot Games because I earnestly believe that the balance team is single-handedly killing this game while all the others who work there in different departments are doing their absolute best.

lolipopevelynnAug 8, 20189 votes

{quoted}

I just can't believe people go to their 805 job to BALANCE A VIDEO GAME, and this is what they come up with. I can't wrap my head behind how someone can sit there for 8 hours a day, thinking of the BEST balance decisions, and this meta is created. The artists at Riot Games are great though.

awhile ago riot had a intern program for gameplay team and those interns played the game casually. idk if its still in effect, but im guessing those interns are now full timers. for the last few seasons now rank play has been one giant experiment for them that end up as a failure. i cant think of a single NEW gameplay change that they implemented that has actually been good for the game.

not only that but the changes they make completely contradicted previous changes they have made. for example they made a HUGE deal about global passives, but later on they add the elemental dragons where you get a global 12% damage increase passive... as if that is ok and not completely hypocritical to their past philosophy on global passives... "durr well tf and janna passive wasnt ok cuz it uh... it uh... umm... it affected everyone! but fire and wind dragon are ok because it err... well... it... it affects everyone! yea thats it."

its like they dont take notes when they make changes. or they simply lack standards. or both.

Nea104Aug 8, 20182 votes

It's August. Have you seen any improvement in this game since November? :D

SMOKE THISAug 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It's August. Have you seen any improvement in this game since ~~November~~ Season 4? :D

ftfy

BoulderoxAug 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I just can't believe people go to their 805 job to BALANCE A VIDEO GAME, and this is what they come up with. I can't wrap my head behind how someone can sit there for 8 hours a day, thinking of the BEST balance decisions, and this meta is created. The artists at Riot Games are great though.

when your get payed by someone else, you have to do what you are TOLD...

PooWhoAug 9, 20183 votes

They are being TOLD, and PAID to balance the game. I doubt they're being told to make every balance patch even worse than the one before. If so though, they are succeeding.

BoulderoxAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They are being TOLD, and PAID to balance the game. I doubt they're being told to make every balance patch even worse than the one before. If so though, they are succeeding.

They can also be TOLD to make LCS fun and exciting to watch, and in doing so give buffs to FLASHY champs like LeeSin and Yasuo now... Around worlds patch, all the top dogs usually get a courtesy buff of some sort. Strong champions sells skins, popular champs sell skins, mix them together, make them meta, and you have a mix for printing money if the skin is worth it.

I want to be wrong here, but i do feel that there is bad motives here and it isn't riots fault entirely.

In the game industry, there is fewer and fewer companys that have full control over the game, and have to force random junk that ruins the game ALA destiny, ANY EA GAME and so on. fun or balanced =/= money in some cases, and it is sad when balance is thrown to the wayside.

SMOKE THISAug 9, 20183 votes

The art used to be better back around season 2. Much more "artful" and calming, with a vibe that better fit the game. Look at the second annie classic vs the current splash. It was so much better. Not to mention now we have the Chinese skins that took over what used to be there and they are 90% rubbish or anime /sadrumbleplayer.

LeetriAug 9, 20182 votes

How the hell was the art better in S2? Back then every single splash art was just the in-game model painted over in MS Paint.

SMOKE THISAug 9, 20182 votes

No man that was the 2009 splashes when the game released. Check out Annie's second splash. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/d7/Annie_OriginalSkin_old2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160127025724

ParoeAug 9, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I just can't believe people go to their 805 job to BALANCE A VIDEO GAME, and this is what they come up with. I can't wrap my head behind how someone can sit there for 8 hours a day, thinking of the BEST balance decisions, and this meta is created. The artists at Riot Games are great though.

Prolly been said but i can tell you exactly how this happens: Yes culture.

Yes culture happens when theres little or no accountability or oversight in decision making, and you have a group who has worked together for a long time. Any idea is a good idea, and the echo chamber of "work friends" amplifies the "yes thats a good idea" to the point of confidence. Its disgusting and it means riots internal systems are absolute garbage.

Nea104Aug 8, 201818 votes

They've already proved that they aren't gonna make their own game any better. It's August :D And, to the problems everyone pointed out back in November (bad new Runes, crazy damage...), they've just kept adding other problems.

This Yasuo's absurd buff is just another incredibly bad idea, PBE or not. But it's evident they are intentionally keeping their own game in this current awful state.

Raven is AliceAug 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

They've already proved that they aren't gonna make their own game any better. It's August :D And, to the problems everyone pointed out back in November (bad new Runes, crazy damage...), they've just kept adding other problems.

This Yasuo's absurd buff is just another incredibly bad idea, PBE or not. But it's evident they are intentionally keeping their own game in this current awful state.

They've already proved they're aware of those issues though and have already stated they plan on addressing them in the preseason, they can't make drastic rune changes or do anything they could cause a large meta shift or change of flow to the game this close to worlds.

Nea104Aug 9, 20184 votes

Pre-Season was in November, and ended 8 months ago or so; it's a HUGE lapse of time. Many of the present issues were perfectly known, and still they've ignored basically all of them for months. They only moved the main problem from ADCs to assassins, which is even worse, and then partially to bruisers. And they are still intentionally buffing the overall damage :D Look at "change" to support items, making botlane even more a spam/nuke/burst fiesta.

New pre-season is in 3 months. No way a professional company can keep messing up for a whole year. Well, actually it can, and the result is the current state of the game :D

BestPudgeNAAug 8, 201814 votes

{quoted}

Hecarim buffs despite him being perfectly fine and appropriately strong in the jungle atm

WUT

TheKingOfBichesAug 8, 20189 votes

I'm confused tho,isn't hecarim dogshit right now? Haven't even seen a hec in litteraly 3 months and I've been playing regularly.

Horse GrenadesAug 8, 20185 votes

Yes

ModCaliCoastReplayAug 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I'm confused tho,isn't hecarim dogshit right now? Haven't even seen a hec in litteraly 3 months and I've been playing regularly.

Hecarim was certainly playable in at least one circumstance even before the buffs, and that was as a counterpick to Graves who is arguably the top jungler of the season.

Hecarim genuinely smashes Graves a lot of the time, as Graves needs to do his patented short-range kite-and-dash bit to deal his sustained damage, and in response Hecarim just charges in, closes the gap immediately and completely and denies favorable trades.

I can't say whether or not the buffs were necessary, but Riot may be trying to give some counterplay to the summer of Graves , balance-wise.

rtbf221651412Aug 8, 201811 votes

That Orianna nerf tho.

TheGreatNinxAug 8, 20187 votes

Report riot for trolling. Ff at 15mins.

MasterDCloneAug 9, 20186 votes

a 100% bonus AD damage increase on yas R.

this change was reverted and was confirmed to just test a powershift in his kit, nerfs were coming after to compensate but they removed the idea before it hits live.

2 straight buffs to lee before the dust even settles on his first MASSIVE buff.

I don't currently see any buffs to lee sin on pbe so i'm going to assume they've been removed.

Hecarim buffs despite him being perfectly fine and appropriately strong in the jungle atm

Hecs winrate is decent atm and i agree this looks weird at first look, but when you realize that this buff is simply to compensate with the nerf to celerity, it makes sense to keep his winrate stable (although i think it is a little overtuned)

a orianna nerf out of fucking nowhere.

I can't explain the reasoning for this one but then again it is 4 mr we're talking about not something too drastic.

but hey, since zoe is finally getting deleted from mid lane next patch, instead of actually fixing her kit through mechanic changes rather than number tweaking, people might overlook and excuse these changes right?.

zoe isn't getting deleted from mid, she will still be decent if you are good with her which is the point of these nerfs, what was happening was people were getting killed without getting hit by a single ability of hers, so now people actually have to land their shit to do damage.

Nobody is excusing anything, it is mentioned everywhere that the changes made on pbe aren't guaranteed to make it to live so jumping the gun on changes you see won't accomplish anything except get a handfull of upvotes from some idiots. I'm calling it that the orianna nerf won't hit live.

The PBE is a testing grounds for new, tentative, & experimental changes.

EXPERIMENTAL CHANGES, check the definition.

elo trashAug 8, 20185 votes

games staying dead? cool... ill just stay on BDO. atleast they listen when i spend money :)

rawiazam1Aug 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=elo trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YO3t9JAh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-08T16:29:27.184+0000)

games staying dead? cool... ill just stay on BDO. atleast they listen when i spend money :)

bdo?

RekSai CoffeeCoAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

bdo?

Black Desert Online

LeonerdoAug 9, 20185 votes

TL;DR: The balance team is struggling (mainly because of low-skill vs. high-skill differences, and Play-offs/Worlds is coming soon), not trolling.

Several of the changes are aimed at pro-play. And most of them make some sense.

The buff to Yasuo's ult is decent because ult-related changes tend to be more impactful in pro play (because people don't fight as much without their ults). Although, of course, Yasuo is already busted below Plat, so they can't go through with any straight buffs. And would you look at that, it was reverted on the PBE. Edit: I just noticed Yasuo also lost a bunch of power from the 8.15 changes. He's actually a tiny bit weak overall. Those buffs will probably come back at some point...

The orianna nerf is because Riot doesn't want Orianna to be the #1 "safe" mid-laner for the millionth time in Worlds.

And the buff to Lee Sin was definitely overkill. I'm fine with complaining about that one. They reverted it already, though.

The Hecarim buff is just a compensation for the Celerity nerf (not related to Worlds this time). I am 100% certain about that. And it's focused on his sustain damage, rather than his burst, which I think is appropriate.

Zoe nerfs are necessary of course. They can't go any further than they did, because they don't want to make drastic (mechanics-level) changes before Worlds. And they probably don't want to change her mechanics anyways, because they're unique and interesting ("fun" is up for debate). Whatever, she'll be in the same spot as Azir pretty soon. It's a tough situation. There is no winning situation anymore. Maybe if she wasn't released with so much bullshit, it would be easier to cut some of it down without "destroying her playstyle/identity".

So yeah, there's some bad decisions in there that are already reverted, and Zoe is a problem without a "good" decision available. But most of the changes make sense in some way, if you think about it. So I wouldn't say the balance team is trolling, just that they're struggling.

Maybe one of these days they'll get over their "same game, same rule" policy, and make a pro-specific version of the game.