@Riot, Please just remove voidlings from AP malzahar's kit

deadlychuck·Aug 25, 2018·18 votes·9,759 views

Just remove the scaling. It's unwanted, even y'all said you wanted to move his kit budget back to his other abilities, revert the damage to physical, and make them decently bulky again considering that they're not going to cause crazy issues with them being removed from support malzahar's kit or jungling if you trade the number of voidlings for that aforementioned bulk.

While you're at it, why don't you just remove his spell shield too, put his null zone back on W and his voidlings back on his passive. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/782/935/ce2.png

31 Comments

RebonackAug 25, 20183 votes

I'm in the camp of a FULL revert and then start changing him again from there. The Mage Update was an absolute failure for him. It succeeded at none of the stated objectives and served only to piss off most of Malz' player base in addition to making him busted.

LegitBusinessmanAug 25, 20181 votes

He's the least fun mid matchup in the game hands down. Permashove with voidlings and space aids that takes hardly any mana. Bleh.

deadlychuckAug 25, 20188 votes

Really, he's the worst mid lane to play too.

The person playing malzahar has literally no control over the champion besides his movement, and maybe missing his Q, let alone the matchup. He hands you the tempo control of the match by simply existing as he is. If you don't want to die from him, you don't, and if you don't want him to farm, he doesn't, and there's nothing that the malzahar player can do himself to stop you.

His spell rotation is non-negotiable, else you fail to have any kill potential at all, and his voidlings are nothing more than complementary damage to his E. They accomplish nothing most of the time and they're completely unreliable as anything, including farming tools.

Leto GTAug 25, 20182 votes

He's S tier but the "worst mid lane to play too" cough.

54% winrate in challenger 53% winrate in master 51,44% winrate in diamond+ 52,18% in platinium+ 52,93% in gold+ etc...

https://u.gg/lol/champions/malzahar/build/?rank=challenger&role=middle

Killer of Night9Aug 25, 20181 votes

Not Always winrate = Fun. Ryze has 44-46% win rate but he still more fun than malzahar. Even brand mid that has an average of 49-50% winrate on opgg look way more fun than malzhar despite being a dot mage

TempName54846Aug 25, 20182 votes

plot twist: if you don't find something fun you don't have to play it

deadlychuckAug 25, 20184 votes

Plot Twist: The point is that they removed the gameplay that was fun, for this trash of a rework.

My Waifu VanillaAug 25, 20181 votes

Opinions.

deadlychuckAug 25, 20181 votes

Fine

Plot Twist: The point is that they removed the gameplay ~~that was fun,~~ for this ~~trash of a~~ rework.

TempName54846Aug 25, 20181 votes

plot twist: you never found the gameplay fun you just enjoyed one shooting people with no counterplay, he still plays pretty much exactly the same as before except he can't delete everyone.

deadlychuckAug 25, 20182 votes

No i really didn't, I spent most of my time playing AD malzahar. Even got a smurf that I quit playing to specifically ladder with him, and I don't even ladder on my main account!

I'm not gonna waste my time explaining to you why I found it fun, just know it was the antithesis of

one shooting people with no counterplay

Yeah, I'd play him AP sometimes, but if he was that strong and easy, then that doesn't explain his complete absence in LCS since season 1

TempName54846Aug 26, 20181 votes

I spent most of my time playing AD malzahar

so you pressed buttons and afk showed down lanes like the aids malza was, and is currently, just a tad weaker.

Yeah, I'd play him AP sometimes, but if he was that strong and easy, then that doesn't explain his complete absence in LCS since season 1

being able to delete people 1v1 with no counterplay doesn't mean a champion is strong it just means that his aids.

deadlychuckAug 26, 20181 votes

You're just completely clueless it would seem, so I'm just gonna let you act like an ignorant idiot in another thread.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

TempName54846Aug 26, 20181 votes

when someone that has failed to climb any elo for 4 years lacks any real argument so he decides to calls you ignorant and spam emojis like a teenage girl instead

deadlychuckAug 27, 20182 votes

Awe yes, now start trying to point at my indifference towards ranked as some kind of evidence that what I'm saying is wrong. News flash, the game isn't climbing the ranked ladder, it's that inconvenience after you get through the loading screen.

Look, I'm calling you ignorant because your description of AD malzahar is simplistic and even then inaccurate, and the apparent cognitive dissonance of claiming that he had no counterplay 1v1 item 3140 and yet also that he wasn't strong makes for a waste of time to even discuss the topic if you're going to enter it with a claim from bad faith.

spam emojis

Posted 1 sticker (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TempName54846Aug 27, 20181 votes

Awe yes, now start trying to point at my indifference towards ranked as some kind of evidence that what I'm saying is wrong

i'm pointing at your lack of skill and knowledge not your interest towards ranked.

Look, I'm calling you ignorant because your description of AD malzahar is simplistic and even then inaccurate, and the apparent cognitive dissonance of claiming that he had no counterplay 1v1 and yet also that he wasn't strong makes for a waste of time to even discuss the topic if you're going to enter it with a claim from bad faith.

claiming that malzahar had counterplay in 1v1 because of QSS is like claiming that zed would have counterplay 1v1 if zhonyas was removed just because "just build randuins 4head", its a completely shit item for mages that you shouldn't be forced into building.

Posted 1 sticker (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ¯_(ツ)_/¯ [slayer-jinx-catface]

are you under the age of 16 or over the age of 40?

deadlychuckAug 27, 20181 votes

i'm pointing at your lack of skill and knowledge not your interest towards ranked.

Really now? How are you differentiating between my lacking of skill & knowledge and my disinterest? I'm very curious how much data you based that conclusion on.

claiming that malzahar had counterplay in 1v1 because of QSS is like claiming that zed would have counterplay 1v1 if zhonyas was removed just because "just build randuins 4head", its a completely shit item for mages that you shouldn't be forced into building.

And yet riot has a double standard on this issue as well. It's not that I think he had counterplay in this regard, rather I think that QSS just acted as a crutch for any player who's incapable of adequately playing around him, it's that by riot's working definition QSS functioned as "counterplay".

are you under the age of 16 or over the age of 40?

Neither, but I'm pretty convinced that you're just a babbling idiot despite what age you might be.

Especially considering that both of these statements were made in this thread, yet you're completely oblivious to the glaringly obvious explanation for my low rank other than "hE's BaD aNd UnSkIlLeD"...

"... I don't even ladder on my main account!" "... indifference towards ranked as some kind of evidence"

TempName54846Aug 28, 20181 votes

its very hard for someone to stay silver over a 100 ranked games if they are good at the game, unless of course you want to claim that you care so little that you purposefully play bad in ranked, also your match history shows you as a silver - gold player as well.

"bu-but I never try in normal games either and purposefully play badly in both ranked and normals" i mean sure keep using the oldest excuse in the book.

Neither, but I'm pretty convinced that you're just a babbling idiot despite what age you might be.

i mean that's a cute opinion, assuming that everyone that doesn't agree with you to be ignorant and a babbling idiot will get you far in life.

ParoeAug 25, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=wG Got2Cool,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YEf18cPo,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-25T04:07:41.339+0000)

He's S tier but the "worst mid lane to play too" cough.

54% winrate in challenger 53% winrate in master 51,44% winrate in diamond+ 52,18% in platinium+ 52,93% in gold+ etc...

https://u.gg/lol/champions/malzahar/build/?rank=challenger&role=middle

Malzahar is anti-snowball in a snowball meta. He stops mid laners in their tracks; thats why he has a decent win rate.

@thread Before anything malzahar needs his base stat nerfs reverted. After that his voidlings need to be reverted to pre-tether, and then he needs a new passive entirely.

The problem with malzahar current is that they nerfed him as a support and made him into a very weak, very immobile champion who lacks the range and consistence to feel good to play. Imagine lux with half the range.

Leto GTAug 25, 20181 votes

He's no weak. Ppl need to stop thinking malzahar is easy to play first. Ppl tend to think that because his E and R are point and click but completely ignores his lane interaction, positioning and decision making that have to be made.

He's only easy when your only plan is to permapush with him, which is not something you're allowed nor should do in a lot of matchups. Alike most of control mages, he doesn't have a frontal directional threat which gives him the feeling that he's weak - I mean Anivia Q, Ahri A and E which are skillshots in line starting from the champion up onto the target. His pool was actually some kind of barrier that you could place to zone and that could fill that job. That's why ppl tend to think he's very much vulnerable - I'm not saying he's not but he still has tools. Now he has voidlings instead which can block spells along with your shield. In that regard, the fun comes along playing in accordance to your enemy kit and using your kit properly. It takes time and practice despite ppl opinion based on previous malza iteration.

The second thing ppl need to understand is that he scales really hard but can feel weak up until lvl3-4. At lvl4, malzahar does ridiculous amount of damage as he scales hard assuming you hit your combo and use his kit properly. However, at lvl1 you can poke with your E and at lvl2 you can drop ppl already down to 50-60% with a single E Q combo if you refresh the E properly. Yes his range is short and that's something I mentionned in an post a few month ago, but that's why you need to play around your kit.

The last issue with ppl is that they tend to not take in account runes properly which are important on malzahar since he's all about playing around opponents. It's perfectly fine to play domination tree to get the regen if you're not used to the champion and the trades. It's only perfectly fine to start corrupting potions and whatever from the inspiration tree.

deadlychuckAug 25, 20182 votes

I've literally played new malz with zero complications through ever iteration of his voidlings, with a single macro on my mouse for everything but my ult, which followed this exact pattern every time I pressed it.

W - pause - E - pause 3.25sec - Q

That's the extent of the depth of gameplay for the new malz and if you don't follow that exact cast pattern, your damage drops to next to nothing. Not that you voidlings actually make it to the target most of the time anyway.

SuperNova0079Aug 25, 20181 votes

Voidlings shouldn't be his passive. His spell shield is what pressures people around him. His voidlings should remain at 1 hit kills. BUT they get all of there old abilities back. Speed boost, replication, spawning more voidlings when a voidling kills a minion, double attack speed if there are more than 7 of them. used to be 3 for double attack speed.

That is all riot needed to do to get him out of support lane. THAT SIMPLE SO STOP NERFING HIM TO HELL RIOT.

deadlychuckAug 25, 20182 votes

Hahaha, hell no.

That was the entire problem with the champion on release. The "swarm" mechanic is a massive balancing nightmare even just at the conceptual level, let alone trying to find any kind of decent numbers. Having 2-3 voidlings that can actually accomplish something feels way better than having 6-9 that will never make it to the target unless you're ulting them.

PsyrixAug 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Voidlings shouldn't be his passive. His spell shield is what pressures people around him. His voidlings should remain at 1 hit kills. BUT they get all of there old abilities back. Speed boost, replication, spawning more voidlings when a voidling kills a minion, double attack speed if there are more than 7 of them. used to be 3 for double attack speed.

That is all riot needed to do to get him out of support lane. THAT SIMPLE SO STOP NERFING HIM TO HELL RIOT.

... This change will make him cancerous to play against midlane... and would still have him being a support pick. Him being weak isn’t the real reason he’s played support... how often do u use the voidlings and malefic visions to help ur adc last hit? It’s more used to poke the enemy. Ur rework makes him even less manageable because the shield passive is still there and the voidlings could spawn a huge amount making him even more of a push bully but also making him even less interactive... the entire reason why he’s unfun to play against and play as is his uninterectivity...

SuperNova0079Aug 25, 20181 votes

there is a game I play in an arcade mode of another game. It is a moba and there are heroes that can summon 20 minnions that have 500% movement speed when a certain ability is cast on them. They also drain movement speed on the target each attack. He is one of the worst tanks in that game.

There is another hero that can throw eggs from a decent range and than they hatch into zombie marines. He can have like 10 of them at max level. But there is a catch. They move really slow, they are ranged, have 50% spell resist default, and deal double damage when under the effects of an ultimate that is the same as nether grasp. EXCEPT IT LASTS 4 SECONDS, drains life and energy from the target. But the beam thing takes time to reach it's target so the enemy has a chance to react and stun him before the beam hits him. The infected soldiers deal 8+10% of your intelligence (ability power equivalent) damage. have 80+20 health per level. Yes getting hit with this heroes beam while his pets are close means quick death for you. But it is hard to reach that point.

What I like about this hero is that you have to be good at placing your eggs correctly for the situation. If the enemy has a lot of AoE, Spread out your eggs. If the enemy likes to waste abilities on them, then place a few down, bait his ability than deploy the rest. That is how Malzahar should be. You can place portals at a decent range. They are ranged, move slowly have 50% AoE damage reduction, and deal double damage to someone under nether grasp and last 21 seconds, and every 7 seconds they get more powerful. (like the very first voidlings) Malefic visions should be replaced with a bomb that when it hits the ground creates that null zone and puts malefic visions on anything inside of it, in addition to taking the null zone damage and it would stack slow on targets in side. Make Nether grasp have a 0.619 second cast delay and increase the damage and scaling by 150% Then replace the shield with where you leave a trail of slowing energy on the ground where you walk, enemies in the trail lose 35% movement speed.

This way Malzahar will take skill to use. U must micro you and your voidlings correctly, throw them ahead of you while getting chased so by the time you get to them they are more powerful and start barraging your pursuer. Circle your opponent with the voidlings to trap them then ult them and watch your voidilings make quick work of your prey. That would be fun and THAT would make me play this game for about 5 more years.[vlad-salute]

Killer of Night9Aug 25, 20181 votes

Ahri had something like 53-50% winrate but they changed her just because player fell unsatisfied for her W. Rengar and leblanc had the same story. They just changed fizz kit because he can't assasin someone without his ult. I think they should do that on malzahar too. I'm not having fun watching my enemy taking item 3140 item 3155 and beat me in every single 1v1 trade. Also old malzahar was really nice as anti tank/anti assassin. The current one is just a "Safe" champs with only waweclear.