Legitimate question. If you build HP, you just get chunked for more damage. Armor and MR is obviously useless against true damage. Is there really any way to counter build someone who dishes out a ton of % HP true damage? Looking for serious answers
Edit: wasn't specifically referring to Vayne. Was more concerned with the % HP true damage they are handing out to top laners now
Narasimha34 votesCounterPLAY. You can't counter build it. But each of the champions given % true damage have actually been given fair ways to counter play them.
Fiora - Reliant on hitting targets that are visible to the opponent. Positioning is key here. You know where she wants to go. If it looks open to her, either bait her out or keep out of distance until it moves. If it looks hard for her (dead behind you, for example), use that time to go aggressive. She's not going to be able to get to your back easily.
Garen - Only has it on one target at a time, target is known to everyone, and Garen can't even apply it to his lane opponent anymore. Well, not unless they've killed other than Garen. Plus, he took a major hit to a lot of his stats in exchange.
Vayne - The most controversial. The trickiest to figure out. And as awkward as it sounds, the best thing to do is never 1v1 her. That is her realm, her power, her arena where she rules. If you're an assassin, burst her down. Otherwise, find a buddy. Most people don't know this, but if Vayne is forced to switch targets, all stacks of Silver Bolts are lost on the previous target. So force her to keep switching. Make her find a higher priority, and kill her while she does so. She can ONLY 1v1 people. She doesn't have the luxury of poking or hitting with AOE abilities. Either wear her down from a distance, or take her down in a swift blow.
Sire Hippington7 votesaditionally, ~80% of vaynes dmage in average still is physical, which means getting armor vs vayne is doing more than it does for example vs kogmaw, who only deals ~50% of his damage as physical...
MohawkBird2 votesQuite an odd comparison because you're still able to build MR and Armor on a team with Kog'Maw.
Sire Hippington4 votesyou still need to invest aditional gold and itemslots for that mr, and chances are that it's a full-ad team with like zed mid, darius top and J4 jungle.
The point is, if you feel like you die to fast vs a vayne, building armor helps you just as much if not more than vs most other ad-carrys despite her truedamage
MohawkBird2 votesWhat do you mean chances are it's on a full AD team? Any non-idiotic group of people know how to vary damage types to be effective.
". . . building armor helps you just as much if not more than vs most other ad-carrys despite her truedamage."
This is not me saying that building armor vs Vayne is pointless, because it does help, but it is in no way as effective, and sure as hell not more effective than building on other AD carries.
She is the only AD carry with true damage, on top of that being %Max HP based. Every other one with the exception of Kog and Corki are extremely, if not fully physical. Don't even try and say building armor vs a Tristana is just as effective (yet even trying to say more) because it isn't.
Again, I am not saying don't build armor against her, because you should. But the fact that you're trying to state it's just as effective, if not more, is blatantly wrong.
Sire Hippington2 votesWhat do you mean chances are it's on a full AD team? Any non-idiotic group of people know how to vary damage types to be effective.
lol-players have proven over and over again that they can and will pick full ad-comps, even in proplay. Especially in soloQ, with yasuo getting popular again...people rarly care about the teamcomp then they pick.
...and sure as hell not more effective than building on other AD carries. ....She is the only AD carry with true damage
How effecktive getting armor vs a champ is doesn't depend on wether or not it does truedamage, but oly on how much physical damage it does. Vayne does ~80% physical damage Ezreal does ~70% corki does 47% Missfortune does ~74% kog does ~49% the rest should be above 85% (numbers from champion.gg)
People complain about %truedamage because they can't counterbuilt it, saying it is impossible to counterbuilt a champ that uses %truedamage but forget that it usually is only a small part of that champions total damage, and they totally can itemize against the rest of the damage. It's far easier to itemize against a vayne than it is against a true magic/physic hybrid if isolated. In a balanced teamcomp, the fact that you need armor and mr anyway kinda takes away from that, which leads to the midgame spike of hybrids, beeing strong till tanks can afford armor and mr. However, it's not unusuall to have a corki or kog in a full ad comp, makeing it harder for the enemies to just stack armor.
All i'm saying is that people heavily overact on the %truedamage stuff, and there are many ad-focused champs that have less physical damage in their overall damage composition than vayne and co
Maximum Morde25 votesWith lubricant. It's the only way.
LICENSED HOOKER3 voteslubricant ___**and **___some occasional moans of DAMACIA and such,
TehNACHO5 votesBuild burst against Vayne.
Reset Fiora's passive when it faces her by backing off. When it resets, it faces away from her.
Get an ADC to kill Garen, and someone with hard CC to peel for the ADC in question.
Zielmann5 votesShields. Only way to truly mitigate it, really. The thornmail/frozen heart approach is more of a loose band-aid than anything.
IMO, exhaust should be the proper response for handling true damage. The tooltip would even lead you to believe it should reduce true damage:
Exhausts target enemy champion, reducing their Movement Speed and Attack Speed by 30%, their Armor and Magic Resist by 10, and their damage dealt by 40% for 2.5 seconds.
True damage is included in the damage they're dealing...
But for some reason Riot feels that true damage shouldn't be able to be reduced by such things.
Jbels3 votesShields. Only way to truly mitigate it, really. The thornmail/frozen heart approach is more of a loose band-aid than anything.
IMO, exhaust should be the proper response for handling true damage. The tooltip would even lead you to believe it should reduce true damage: True damage is included in the damage they're dealing...
But for some reason Riot feels that true damage shouldn't be able to be reduced by such things.
I agree with what you're saying. I don't understand why it's problematic for True Damage to be affected by Damage Reduction. It already ignores armor and MR, so what's the haarm in giving it that little bit of counterplay? The only other option would be to make it about avoiding the ma health true damage through gameplay counterplay, but you can't avoid autoattacks unless you're Jax, Fiora, Teemo, or Pantheon, and Autoattacks are the only real medium that MH True damage is applied through. So it feels like Riot is trying to say the main counterplay to it should be "Run like hell, don't get in range".
Just an FYI, that doesn't mean I think the true damage portion of Vayne's damage is broken, or even a little OP. People seem to forget that most of the amage from her comes from items come mid to late game.
The Yetii Rider4 votesHonestly, Garen and Fiora and Darius are all fine in terms of their true damage. There is legitimate counterplay to the way they deal it, and Darius's isn't even % so building health does help a little.
Vayne is just toxic. She has lower range, oh no. She's weak to burst, yes, because mages aren't completely obsolete at this point with the ridiculous mobility in the mid and jungle. She can get assassinated, but assassins have to input all their damage in a split second and Vayne becoming untargetable for that split second does make it much more difficult.
Vayne is a duelist. She is designed to kill anyone she 1v1s, but through safety and the ability to build stats other than raw AD rather than through just pure damage. That's why she's so fucking annoying.
Auryiel4 votesAD, AS, Crit, ArPen, AP, CDR, MPen
Kill it! Kill the source!
Mr Broken Wings4 votesIts a stat against you shouldnt be able to itemize against, thats the whole point of it.
stabby himiko1 votesIt's not meant to be easy to hit off like Fiora's passive though. Like. Oh my god it's so frigging op. 3% true DMG max HP at 0:00 in the game.
Morcleon3 votesIn general, building more HP actually does help against %HP true damage. Imagine two champions, one with 1000 HP and the other with 2000 HP. If each is hit by 50% max HP true damage, they end up at 500 and 1000 HP respectively. However, the second one now has more HP that can be used to survive against the other types of damage that they are inevitably taking. Also, as all of the champions who deal %HP true damage are physical damage-based, armor helps mitigate their other damage.
Specifically against Vayne, building Randuin's Omen or Frozen Heart (or both) will effectively reduce all of her %HP true damage by 15% (27.75% with both), as it's based on attack speed.
Specifically against Fiora, mobility and CC both help, as her %HP true damage is based on her ability to move around you and hit vitals. Also, if one of your vitals is facing a wall, you can just walk up to the wall and prevent her from ever getting on that side of you.
Specifically against Garen, staying away from him is the biggest concern, since everything he has that deals %HP true damage is melee range. If you're a ranged champion, just kite him and stay away. If you're melee, then don't engage until after his E has been used, since that's the biggest chunk of %HP true damage he has.
It Hertz When IP1 votesThe issue is that against %Max HP true damage, it is relatively cost-ineffective to defend against it. The armor is a good route though, tbh all scares aside I've always taken more damage from Vayne's AAs than from Silver bolts.
Morcleon1 votesYeah, it's not something you're going to want to specifically itemize against. Vayne usually only deals about 10% of her total damage as true damage, so it's mostly her mobility that's the issue. Fiora's true damage is a bigger part of her damage, but that's more of a positioning issue than anything.
Fiveofswords3 votesunless the majority of their damage actually comes in the form of this % health true damage, which currently doesnt happen on any champion, this is somewhat irrelevant. Since every champions damage is vastly magic or physical, you can still be tanky agaisnt them in the normal way.
JedenVojak3 votesMove speed. You build move speed.
If they can't hit you, they don't do damage.
IcyPepper2 votesMost %max hp true damage isn't intended to be counterbuilt, rather it's intended to be counterplayed. You can build against a specific champion's main damage type if you want to mitigate most of their damage, but you're really supposed to play around the true damage. Of course, champions like Fiora or Garen will land some hits on you, but that's just trades in a nutshell (after all, not every autoattack and spell in the game can be avoided forever, skillshot or not).
Generally champions either pay for their true damage (Vayne has lower range in terms of spells than other ADC's, so she's weak to burst mages or assassins. Her counterplay is flanking and focusing her, denying her safety with her peel and mobility), have to work for their true damage (even you see the vital against Fiora, and Darius needs bloodstacks before ulting unless you're really low. Vayne has to focus a specific target for three autos, she can't divide her attention), it's in small increments (Garen autos dealing 1% true damage doesn't hurt if you stay out of the spin, but is likely going to hurt like hell if you don't), or is conditional (Garen's villain).
Whether or not any of them are overpowered, you'll fare better with the knowledge of how their damage works so you can work around it instead of trying to bandage it with items. Thornmail is useful, though, but focus more on your play rather than your build when it comes to that type of damage.
BluePolarizer2 votesthat's the theory. In practice, a 2.0 attack speed Vayne is not outplayable except by Lux/Xerath/full crit Jinx/Kog/Cait behind a wall.
Sasogwa2 votesBuild more damage.
Kitten of Evil2 votesKilling the person who has % max HP health damage counters it
Sire Hippington2 votesit depends on the champion you face, you don't vounter it with items, but with how you play. Atleast thats the idea, but depending on the matchup, it's not always possible...
However, looking at raw numbers, %truedamage isn't as bad as most people make it up to be, if you play a squishy, no-truedamage often hurts far more. Gnar for example deals 50+14% with his W every 3 hits, compared to vaynes 60+8%, you need like 80 mr to break even, which is quite an investment on squishy champs like talon or ashe, especially vs a champ that deals mostly physical damage....
oeiole complain that they can't do shit vs %truedamage, but don't get the numbers are rather low. For vayne to kill you with W-damage allone, she'd need ~33 AAs(depending on the targets max health because og the flat damage part), now guess how much % of your health in physical damage would be...
Fiora isn't strong because of her %truedamage, she's strong because of her low cd Q+E, doing huge physical damage, applying lifesteal to all of it, beeing sticky and haveing 0.75sec of invulnerbilliy+cc-immunity...
ModAcademy Kayn2 votes2 people got it, and they stated they weren't going to be giving it out to anyone any time soon. So it's less like "Handing out" and more like gifting it for Christmas.
But on a serious answer, Health beats % Max HP damage, despite what people tell ya. Here is why:
10% max HP True damage against a 500 health opponent = 50 damage leaving you with 450 health
10% max HP True damage against a 1000 health opponent = 100 damage leaving you with 900 health
"But they're doing the same amount of damage no matter how much health" I hear you cry. But look at the amount of health that is left. By buying health you still have more health then if you didn't buy health, which means you are less squishy to the other damages an opponent does.
Also you don't counterbuild Max HP True Damage, you out play those who have Max HP True Damage.
4hui7vPIUC2 votesThe only way to counter % max HP is complaining in the forums until they nerf it.
JK they won't.
Bârd2 votesFiveofswords1 votesalso 4. longer range and higher movespeed
Bârd1 votestrue
Akesgeroth2 votesWhy does it need a counter?
g07h4xf002 votesUse shields.
Pop them right before you take the damage to mitigate it.
Mister Support2 votesFunny enough it's a stat often overlooked...but health regen can counter %hp true damage. What better way to deal with a lot of damage than to simply regenerate said damage as it's being dealt? Hence Mundo! 
Eedat1 votesActually Mundo gets dumped on by Darius, Olaf, Irelia, Garen, and Fiora
Mister Support1 votesActually Mundo gets dumped on by Darius, Olaf, Irelia, Garen, and Fiora
Early game, yeah. Mundo has a weak laning phase. Come late game he is (or at least was) far more difficult to kill when his ult was up.
Eedat1 votesNo, the problem with Mundo is that he's very weak to sustained damage so he has always been weak to AD teams and high damage executes. Mundo is also pretty hard countered by an 
or a 
kJs1 votesAbilities~~ like Alistar ultimate-like abilities,~~ where all forms of damage received is reduced by % amount, shields, Invincibility etc. Not a lot you can do, just hope the source of the damage and the way it is applied is balanced.
Abyssphere11 votesAbilities like Alistar ultimate-like abilities, where all forms of damage received is reduced by % amount, shields, Invincibility etc. Not a lot you can do, just hope the source of the damage and the way it is applied is balanced.
Ali's ult doesn't reduce true damage.
kJs2 votesOh.
Blade of Justic1 votesWell, the champs that have % hp true damage can't miss with it, so the only option is CC and burst or build 
.
Sorry, but that's all you can really do.
bobsenbob1 voteswhy with health regen of course
darkmatchwaldo1 voteskill it with fire
WolfBV1 votesFrozen heart, thorn mail, shields and more health. Armor counters ad, magic resist counters ap and health counters true damage, no matter the kind. Sure the % hp true damage does more to you, but you now have more health for any other type of damage they may be dealing. Say 10% hp per hit. 2000 health so that's 200 damage per hit. With 3000 health that's 300 per hit. Sure, the true damage does the same amount of your health, but now you have 1000 more of it for any other damage.
brad1 votesLegitimate question. If you build HP, you just get chunked for more damage.
you dont get "chunked for more damage" its a percentage, meaning it is the same no matter what
the counter is one of two things
not letting them proc it vayne, and fiora do this fairly well, garen is just kind of a "hope you arent the villain" deal
buying defense yes, you cant lower % health true damage, but you can lower their other damage
windwolf7771 votesKill the source
Nebuul1 votesHow to counter Vayne:
