About the Malzahar rework:

Shinjusuke··22 votes·11,682 views

Originally, this was a post in the feedback thread for the new champion reworks as a response to a Rioter seemingly focused on Voidlings as being one of the most important parts of Malzahar's gameplay, but I felt it should receive of more viewership because I heavily disagree.

There's one single thing that is absolutely core to Malzahar, and is a huge reason I started playing him as one of my first champions and loved him so much (even if the meta has made him an unfavorable option nowadays). He fulfills this fantasy now, and if you guys fuck it up just to make him your perception of "unique" (when he already is in a helluva lotta ways), it will outright be Cassiopeia-level failure on understanding why people enjoy the champion (I think we can all agree Cass players are still outraged by what happened to her). I'm just saying. Don't fuck it up because you don't care about his fans, because I think it's a fair thing to say that most Malz fans might be unhappy about his power level as an immobile mage, but not the gameplay feel.

I'm referring to his feeling of "power" and inevitability. Considering he's a "prophet" of what might be considered an apocalypse-level event (the invasion of the void), I've always felt his kit shined for this.

The fact is, if Malzahar isn't super behind and he gets to do his whole rotation to a single person, chances are they will die, whether they're a squishy or a tank. This is something that I've always felt was an incredibly fitting theme for him and his character in particular.

The fact that he has to put himself in a vulnerable position to DO that full rotation, and the fact that he pretty much (unless super fed) is only going to decimate one person and maybe hurt some others (unlike, say, a fed annie or fed talon or something) has always kept him reasonably balanced and made his counter-play options apparent and easily understood. Not to mention the fact that almost his entire burst is restricted by time and most of it can be avoided or interrupted.

As such, I really consider it to a truly core aspect of his character, backstory, personality, and playstyle that he's an embodiment of outright inevitable doom, and he needs to stay that way. He needs to be able to just plain no-ifs-ands-or-buts KILL someone, anyone, that suffers his full rotation when executed correctly. That's who he is. "The void is coming. Oblivion awaits" paints a pretty damn clear picture.


There are 3 things in his kit that I think already really sell this fantasy, and changing them just because you don't appreciate or understand the character would be a blatant mistake:

  1. His target-agnostic damage. If he pulls off his entire combo on a tank and gets the full duration of all his abilities, he will kill the tank. That's how it should be. Again, inevitability and doom. That's who he is. Just because you put on some pretty armor doesn't mean the void isn't going to consume you.

  2. His emphasis on DoTs, or DoT-like effects. Once again, inevitability and encroaching doom. This is probably the best way for his damage output to sell that feel. If he just, say, 100-0'd people instantly, sure he'd feel like "encroaching doom" when he's walking toward you, but it wouldn't be right, because he'd only deliver on his fantasy when he could instantly kill someone. With DoTs, the feeling of "they will die" is maintained even if they don't right then, because it's still a feeling of "they will die... eventually", and feels like an inevitable outcome (thus, selling the "encroaching doom" fantasy).

  3. His ultimate. If there's one thing that needs to stay pretty damn close to how it is, or if anything just be made more powerful (besides space AIDS of course), it's his ultimate. He is a prophet who sees a nightmarescape and tells people it's coming. Few things can deliver on that fantasy more than him just completely crippling someone with fear just by showing them the unavoidable apocalypse that's coming. His ultimate is the most "Malzahar"-y thing about his kit. If it doesn't do something very similar to what it does right now, if it becomes a non-DoT or a non-Suppress, I'm wholly convinced it's going to not feel like Malzahar, no matter how proud of yourselves you'd be if you felt it was a success. His ultimate is who he is, and with a lack of significant lore behind him anymore, that's the thing that sells Malzahar as being Malzahar the hardest. It might need some tweaking, but a major overhaul would be failure.


Lastly, the voidlings are super cool. They are. I love them. BUT, they are NOT as core to his theme as the three things I stated. If you detract from those 3 things in order to try to turn him into some kind of poke'mon trainer,* as cool as that theme is* (Might fit for a Yorick Rework maybe..), you will be hurting the character. You will. Period. End of story. Don't fuckin' do it. If there's a way to play up the Voidlings as a secondary aspect behind the core aspects, please do, because I think everyone loves the voidling mechanic. Just do not use them as some kind of lame-ass excuse to ruin the character, his feel, and his playstyle just because you want a poke'mon trainer. And you can't even pretend you haven't done that to characters before. Riot has, more than once, completely changed a champion into something not remotely like the original because you guys took too long to figure out "oh, this should just be a different champion, not a rework", and then insisted it was "better" while the people who loved that champion get ignored cuz you're too busy patting yourselves on the back. Please for the love of god actually mean it when you say you're here for fans input and don't fuck us over just because you're too goddamn bullheaded to admit mistakes.

I'm begging you to not do that to Malzahar. If you want a new character, make a new character. No more fuckin' up old characters because it takes too long to figure out you want a new, different one. I and many others in this thread are doing our best to help you guys deliver on the best iteration you can. You just have to get past your egos when you make mistakes with them and listen, because chances are there are going to be mistakes and Riot has a garbage track record when it comes to listening to the fans of non-Lee-Sin champions.

I'm sure there's some Malzahar players that might disagree. I'm simply stating that little skittering bugs are nowhere near as crucial to who Malzahar is as a character or as a playstyle as the other core aspects. That's not really a debatable topic to anyone whose actually bothered to learn about the character in full. If his whole kit from the start had been built around summoning bigger and bigger void creatures, maybe it'd work. But reworking him into something like that destroys who he is. Voidlings are not worth completely decimating him for. We don't need any more "re-imaginings" of beloved characters just because Riot's rework latched onto some gimmick and threw out everything else. Every rework that's been like that has been a failure, at least as far as fans of the actual original character have been concerned, with the exception of Sion I believe (he's the only one not still getting complained about by old mains).

21 Comments

lightdragoon889 votes

Malzahar is my favorite champ too and I too don't care for his Voidlings.

Heck, ever since item 3512 came in, everyone can be the "prophet" and summon their own voildings.

KaimT2 votes

I main also malzahar but he is the only "prophet" of the void. But them with the zz is it so at wenn malzahar it had is he the king of the void and other gays from other ways of the void are slaves of the void

Luffy Rynda8 votes

I main Malzahar since season 1 - and this rework is only make him worse. Its like u take half of his power and minions are completely useless at the moment... Bring back the old Malzahar !!!

Wizzun6 votes

Feel You bro. Malzahar is my favourite champion. Well - it's only champion I really like. And when I see changes that they do to him, I'm really pissed. Is reworked Malzahar strong? Sure! Does he have same feel and playstyle that old Malza? Nope. Nope to the point, I either stop playing LoL at all, or ask for refund for champ and skin, to invest in some other toon (Ziggs maybe? I don't know yet).

ScarletSurgeon6 votes

Now the damage is done. They would never change him back to something similar. He will now stay the pokemontrainer champ, and will not be a Void-Mage anymore.

Onkel Malte5 votes

And here I find this thread that sums up everythin I wanted for Malz, and I think they fucked him up. He's not inevitable he's just an annoying pick now. He's not a prophet and Mage, he's now a floating Zz'rot Portal with a suppression spell.

But you wrote that down more elaborately than I ever could.

Noctras3 votes

Same here -_-

Rebonack3 votes

Long time AD Malz player here. Spearheaded the build over on Dominion back in Season 2.

Here's how I look at it.

AP Malz is like playing the encroaching, inevitable doom of the coming Void apocalypse.

AD Malz is like playing the aftermath of the Void apocalypse, with skittering horrors everywhere flaying soul and mind and flesh.

Both play-styles have their place, which is why I like how compartmentalized they are since they're drastically different.

Shinjusuke8 votes

Oh for sure, and I enjoy playing AD Malz on occassion too.

HOWEVER

The sheer fact is AD Malz is a gimmick that was never intended. I'm not in any way saying it should be deleted unless it absolutely needs to be, what I'm saying is that if SOMETHING needs to move over to make way for a better Malzahar, it needs to be his Voidling's current functionality and, by extension, AD Malzahar, over the AP "encroaching doom" fantasy that he's been intended from his very conceptual stages to be.

I'm not saying I want that to be the case, but I am saying Riot will have colossally fucked up another rework if they damage AP Malzahar and the core identity of the character just for the sake of "teehee voidlings are fun". It's not like Ezreal, where, since the beginning, the versatility and hybridization has been a core aspect of the character. AD Malzahar is a completely separate case of some creative players latching onto a fun little gimmick and making a playstyle out of it, and Malzahar as a character was never designed for it and nothing about his character implies it.

So if something needs to be fundamentally changed during his rework, it sure as fuck needs to be AD Malz's gimmick over, say, the "incoming void apocalypse" aspects of his kit, because that's beyond debate who the character is, in kit, intended playstyle, and lore. It just is.

They definitely each have their place, and I'd love to see AD Malz just as fun (and benefitted if possible) by the rework. I hate seeing alternative playstyles removed. I'm just pointing out that if Riot fucks over AP Malzahar, the way he's "supposed" to play and feel, just for the sake of keeping a 1-trick pony gimmick, I'm gonna be pissed off. His kit sells his core fantasy very, VERY well at the moment compared to the overwhelming majority of the champion roster and it'd be a colossal mistake to ruin it just because people are attached to some minute thing that was never intended to be what he's about.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

Oh for sure, and I enjoy playing AD Malz on occassion too.

I get where you're coming from. No one wants to see their main compromised for the sake of a gimmick in the kit they don't see as core to the champion's identity. I've already had to go through Kog going from the artillery platform marksmen to an immobile machine gun turret with no real attrition potential.

Unfortunately...

Everything I've seen Riot say so far acknowledges that Malz has a really well defined niche, but they want to change him because he lacks significant 'interactivity'.

EG, super mobile divers can't dance around his Ult, and that just won't do.

Baring being able to convince them to just leave Malz alone, I'm worried they're going to mess up what you value as the core aspect of Malz. And I'm worried they'll bugger up my favorite aspect, too. Because if they do make the Voidlings a meaningful damage source for AP builds, you know he's going to be losing damage from elsewhere in his kit.

RoscoeJones1 votes

Hi. Principal Vagina-- The name's real, possibly Scandinavian.

That's what I thought as I read your first line. Rick And Morty ftw.

But yes, good point.

Water Poro3 votes

I agree this is my favorite/main and really only champ PLZ PLZ PLZ DONT!!!

RoscoeJones2 votes

If they drastically change Malzahar I might just stop playing, not out of spite, but because he's been my favorite champion for years. It'll just be downheartening to try and learn a different Malzahar without all the things I love about him. They took away my Karma and my Poppy, don't take away Malzahar too.

Rebonack3 votes

{quoted}

If they drastically change Malzahar I might just stop playing, not out of spite, but because he's been my favorite champion for years. It'll just be downheartening to try and learn a different Malzahar without all the things I love about him. They took away my Karma and my Poppy, don't take away Malzahar too.

From everything I've read thus far, it looks like Riot is planning on reducing the power of Malz' Ult and investing some power in his Voidlings such that AP Malz can take advantage of them, too.

On the one hand, I can think of ways that can be neat. On the other, I don't want to see AP Malz take a lead pipe to his spells so he can cash in on AD Malz' gimmick. They're both fun, distinctive champions. Homogenizing them would be a shame.

I AM BRUCE VAYNE2 votes

Malzahar is an extremely unique and fun champion to play. He has several weaknesses that offset some big strengths. I wish and ask RIOT plz do not re-work Malz! He is fine the way he is. He just needs a visual update. I used to main affliction warlock in world of warcraft and Malz is the closest thing to that in a champion in League. He is immobile and is punished very hard for being out of place. He also is very good at punishing others from being out of good position. Most of time the opponents I face will build QSS and its gg for Malz as he really needs to land his full rotation to be effective. After he exhausts his spells he is useless. Please riot for the love of god please to not mess with Malz. He is extremely fun and fulfills my fantasy of playing as a powerful dark mage!

UtsukushiiSempai2 votes

I agree with that.Malzahar is strong, yes, and many says that his utl need to be nerf or change, but it needs to stay like it is. Before changing his ult that can be countered only with a Banshee’s Veil and item 3111, riot should look at Warwick ’s ult. His ult scale with 200% bonus AD and also activate 5 times all on-hit effect. So he deals 5x 60 magic damage from item 3931, 5x 40 magic damage from item 3091, 5x 6% of target current health from item 3153, he activates 5x his passive and, like Malzahar, he suppresses for the duration of the ult. It can deal either magic or physical damage.

I’m not saying that they should change Warwick’s ult because i like him to, but if they want to change Malzahar’s ult, they should check it because those ult are similar and I think Warwick’s ult is also more broken than Malz’s ult.

xembrace2 votes

They should undo the whole rework becaus its the biggest fail i ever saw in my whole life about lol. The guy who did this rework had absolute no clue about Malzahar and what made him fun to play. The core fun things of why to play Malzahar are gone now..and yeah..having creeps wich are dumb as hell and attack whatever they want and can only be tamed buy a short duration dot..Well..in wich World is this fun? Even besides the Malazahar facts... And at least he feels so clunky to play. Like this is an Alphaversion.

Weathered1 votes

The post you are referring to was stating that the voidlings were the core of AD Malzahar. You might also want to make a TL:DR, that's 1273 words.

Shinjusuke1 votes

Sure, they were, but it was brought up multiple times in the thread, and it doesn't matter if it was about AD or AP Malzahar if Riot changes him to overemphasize it. It's very clearly stated that AD Malzahar relies on voidlings, as does Malz Jungle, and the Rioter in question acknowledges the playstyle and says they'd like to emphasize voidlings much more.

And, frankly, that kind of slippery slope crap is EXACTLY how stuff like Cassipeia's conversion from a poisonous snake mage into an almost-braindead E masher happened. "Wouldn't it be cool if we played up her Twin Fangs some more?" Bam. Ruined champ. So I'm a bit paranoid cuz Riot's history is pretty bad when it comes to "preserving a champion and playstyle through a rework" when that rework is anything larger than Shen's.

And TL:DRs are excuses for people to mindlessly up/downvote without actually caring about the content, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a large part of the reason Riot doesn't listen to the boards: It's a bunch of circlejerking instead of discussion, because people just read a TL:DR and say "yes I agree" or "no I don't" and vote based on that (Which makes the thread essentially useless to any rioter who spots it on the hot page).

The Voids Call1 votes

While the voidlings might not be core thematically to his kit, they already said they were very unlikely to go away. Also they are one of the most unique play styles in the game. There is literally no other minion controlling based champion. Yorick's ghouls are uncontrolled and Azir's are basically just auto attack range.

Again they might not be needed to define the champion how you see him thematically, but mechanically they are very unique and core to malzahar as a champion.

LordGrayKnight1 votes

while i like the new move set a little more than the current one his new passive is shit. it should have a charge time for it to null any ability or move likeitem 3140 or item 3102 every 60 or 80 and at half charge any ability or move are 50 weaker.

the new voidling spawner will make wave clearing easier but it will also give your opponent more gold if the maximum voidling count has no limit.

also that jg Malzahar will be funny to see.

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