Reminder that Ivern has had a 55%+ win rate for 10 patches now

Eedat·Apr 12, 2017·34 votes·2,381 views

With the majority of those being 57%-58% win rate

48 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20175 votes

hmm such a high win rate but I don't ever see him picked nor banned

shrugs

Professor WardApr 12, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-12T21:43:52.438+0000)

hmm such a high win rate but I don't ever see him picked nor banned

shrugs

I'm guessing youre not gold+ as hes played heavily there.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20173 votes

but if he is such an issue why dont he have a bigger ban rate?

hell nunu has a 53.3% win rate

vOmvbrawfUApr 12, 201711 votes

There's a lot of shit to ban with the current state of rito balance.

Also, Ivern is like a passive strong pick. As opposed to someone like Yasuo who is just going to run through your team.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20176 votes

are you aware there are 17 junglers with +50% win rates?

vOmvbrawfUApr 12, 20171 votes

What's the point lol?

AnidanApr 13, 20173 votes

I'd guess it's to point out that just talking win-rates doesn't mean crap in isolation due to how statistics work. Half the roster is likely to be above 50%, the other half below 50%. Other than that, couldn't tell ya.

shrug

vOmvbrawfUApr 13, 20171 votes

I didn't even bring up winrates lol.

AnidanApr 13, 20171 votes

I didn't say you did. I was responding to you about the person you responded to that said "are you aware there are 17 junglers with +50% win rates?" and he did bring up winrates

vOmvbrawfUApr 13, 20171 votes

Yes, but saying that his point was to point out winrates don't mean crap didn't make sense to me since I didn't bring up winrates.

AnidanApr 13, 20171 votes

Sir, sir, SIR. You gotta calm it down, sir.

vOmvbrawfUApr 13, 20171 votes

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 13, 20171 votes

well if you ban all the broken op champs who have +50% win rates then you are forced to play with weaker champs who have sub 50% win rates which by default due to all the +50% champs being banned the sub 50% win rate champs would increase in win rates due to being played by all other champs being banned.

vOmvbrawfUApr 13, 20171 votes

wut

Professor WardApr 12, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-04-12T22:55:27.470+0000)

but if he is such an issue why dont he have a bigger ban rate?

He has the 4th highest banrate in master+ and the third highest banrate today.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20172 votes

graves has a higher ban rate, so does lulu, galio , and katarina

Professor WardApr 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:02:18.400+0000)

graves has a higher ban rate, so does lulu, galio , and katarina

4 champs out of over 120? Also every single champion you've listed has received or is scheduled to receive a nerf.

If you haven't seen a well played ivern in game, you shouldn't even be commenting.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20171 votes

ivern is heavy team coordination reliant

he dont really do damage on his own... more of an enchancer/utlity tank mage

Professor WardApr 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:12:02.882+0000)

ivern is heavy team coordination reliant

he dont really do damage on his own... more of an enchancer/utlity tank mage

I agree 100%, also does much better if no one dies until 20 mins, which is why he does better the higher the elo

Better teamwork Safer Early game

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20171 votes

so he does well as long as people play well and know how to play around a heavy utility tank and lets him scale ?

sounds like Maokai

Professor WardApr 12, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:17:39.199+0000)

so he does well as long as people play well and know how to play around a heavy utility tank and lets him scale ?

sounds like

maokai just got nerfed pretty decently, he is still played top lane as a complete tank item 3742 item 3065 , and ivern is played jungle as a much more utility based tank item 3107 item 3190 .

I could see them doing well together honestly :D

137434Apr 13, 20171 votes

This is also why Riot is not in a huge rush to nerf him.

He is statistical very strong, but doesn't feel unfair/unfun to play against because Ivern himself really struggles to carry if the rest of his team completely sucks. He is only averaging ~2.5 kills a game...worse of all the junglers, but number 1 when it comes to fewest deaths and most assists.

enchanters/utility focus champions are hard to balance. They, except for a few edge cases, usually don't feel oppressive to play _against _ even when they are statistically OP. But they can feel awful/unsatisfying to play _as _ when technically in a good balanced state.

Rock MDApr 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:02:18.400+0000)

graves has a higher ban rate, so does lulu, galio , and katarina

I'm like D3 and I play with people from D4 to D1 and the rare Master so bear with me.

The bans are as follows; Graves and Lulu every game. Lulu is braindead and Graves can literally 1v5 carry solo queue games so no surprise there. Kat does NOT get banned much in Diamond from what I see. That's mostly a D5 and lower ban.

Next you ban Rengar, Ivern, Vlad, Lee, Hecarim, Ahri, or the occasional personal ban. Champs you hate but are just below banworthy, like Warwick or Darius constitute personal bans.

Even in Diamond+, Ivern is consistently one of, if not the strongest junglers. But, because of his low carry potential (in the same way Janna is low carry but consistently has 54% winrate), high banrate, and high skillcap, people just tend to avoid him. Those who can play him almost always have a 60-something winrate.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20171 votes

nunu has a 53.3% win rate

Rock MDApr 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=0001000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:28:52.408+0000)

nunu has a 53.3% win rate

And?

Winrate isn't the only indicator of strength.

The problem is Ivern sees constant LCS bans, a high banrate, and his winrate is ungodly high as well. THAT'S when it's a problem.

PS Ivern's pushes 58%+ in Diamond.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20172 votes

so as long as he gets nerfed no one cares about the other 16 jungers with + 50% win rates?

Rock MDApr 13, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=000100000000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:34:05.135+0000)

so as long as he gets nerfed no one cares about the other 16 jungers with + 50% win rates?

Okay, three questions.

Why are you convinced winrate is everything?
What do you even plan to prove about 16 junglers having a 50%+ winrate? That junglers have diversity?
How are you NOT going to have junglers with 50% winrate? Law of statistics states the average has to equal 50% and if you've got negative winrates on some champions you NEED to have positives.

Skins ProjectApr 13, 20172 votes

To clarify I think he's trying to say that it isn't WINRATE that matters.

But rather, Ivern having a high winrate means nothing, there's others in the same boat.

Rock MDApr 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skins Project,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAyNzE6h,comment-id=00010000000000010000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-13T10:40:47.947+0000)

To clarify I think he's trying to say that it isn't WINRATE that matters.

But rather, Ivern having a high winrate means nothing, there's others in the same boat.

Sad thing is that he's both incapable of expressing this himself and no, there aren't others in the same both. There aren't any junglers right now with that high of a winrate.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 13, 20172 votes

sad that im incapable of expressiong this himself?

im asking questions to create a discussion i guess all that went over your head

and by the way if if one champ has a 48.77% win rate people are arguing that she is strong regardless of her win% then why bitch about irvern who is 57% ? if win rate dont matter then why is the OP making the post regarding he is too strong and op if win rate dont matter.

and as far as my point of the amount of junglers with win rates of 50% are higher is 17 as of the time i made that statement. meaning why cry over him if win rate dont indicate anything when there are 16 other junglers who are "strong " as well.

but when someone argues that a champ needs to be nerfed based on 57% win rate then the same argument is valid to buff a champ who is below 50% saying they are underpowered

cant have one and not the other

BakedLotionApr 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I'm like D3 and I play with people from D4 to D1 and the rare Master so bear with me.

The bans are as follows; Graves and Lulu every game. Lulu is braindead and Graves can literally 1v5 carry solo queue games so no surprise there. Kat does NOT get banned much in Diamond from what I see. That's mostly a D5 and lower ban.

Next you ban Rengar, Ivern, Vlad, Lee, Hecarim, Ahri, or the occasional personal ban. Champs you hate but are just below banworthy, like Warwick or Darius constitute personal bans.

Even in Diamond+, Ivern is consistently one of, if not the strongest junglers. But, because of his low carry potential (in the same way Janna is low carry but consistently has 54% winrate), high banrate, and high skillcap, people just tend to avoid him. Those who can play him almost always have a 60-something winrate.

Kat doesn't get banned in D5 either.

TheSingularityApr 12, 20171 votes

He doesn't have a bigger ban rate because while he is a nuisance (think Yorick Teemo Rumble Gnar ) He doesn't tilt people off the face of the earth like getting wrecked by a Darius Blitzcrank Fiora Graves LeeSin Caitlyn Yasuo does

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 12, 20172 votes

so because people are weak minded and "tilt' easily they ban weaker champs and let the plant run a muck ?

KingnewgameplusApr 12, 20172 votes

How is ivern not tilting? He has an annoying low cooldown permaslow shield, stupid passive, and the worst part, the very worst part, is that he spams voicelines harder than taliyah or ekko wish they could. "SOMETIMESINEEDTOTREATMYSELFIGOT2THUMBSANDASHIELDDAISYSOMETIMESINEEDTOTREATMYSELFIGOT2THUMBSANDASHIELDDAISYSOMETIMESINEEDTOTREATMYSELFIGOT2THUMBSANDASHIELDDAISY"

MelledoneusApr 13, 20174 votes

Better nerf Shen, am I right, fellas?

https://img.memesuper.com/01e9f931005df0e37184afb07f895b97_am-i-right-i-am-right-memes_500-251.jpeg

Skins ProjectApr 13, 20173 votes

~~Reminder that I want to farm upvotes by saying something that people have known for a while without contributing any useful information~~

I mean

YOU TOTALY CARE.... Fucking give this guy challenger for bringing awareness to this HUGE problem. /s

LyingOnLineApr 12, 20171 votes

Reminder that nerfs are on the way.

Not nearly hard enough, but nerfs are on the way.

LexyyApr 13, 20171 votes

Yeah... the only thing that matters is high elo. Lol

ZelorxonApr 13, 20171 votes

[deleted]

LexyyApr 13, 20172 votes

What are you even talking about? You have too much free time, go do something with your life.

I don't complain about Ivern nor do I fear him lol
I'm not bronze

You comment has nothing to do with what I posted, so pls, gtfo.

Dovahkiin416Apr 13, 20171 votes

I've never seen someone so toxic lol

DunkinNoobsApr 13, 20171 votes

People don't ban utility champs, period. They'll ban Rengar with a 48% winrate over Ivern with a 58% winrate because people are stupid.

greekvandaLApr 13, 20171 votes

Ivern is an abomination adn should be removed.

DessemApr 13, 20171 votes

238 games, 68% winrate in KR Masters. It's honestly surprising how long it's taken Riot to come up with a nerf package for Ivern.

He's less of an issue in lower elo, so it's understandable they want to nerf him just for higher elo and not for low elo, but he's still terribly overbearing. I recall Riot saying they didn't take action immediately because of Ivern's relatively low pick/ban rates.

JuvensApr 13, 20171 votes

I'd rather face Ivern a thousand times than a Shaco or Graves once.

Walmart PornApr 13, 20171 votes

Yet every ivern ive seen on my teams have been literal feeding machines. Just last night i got one that was like 0/12 in 20 minutes to a rengar LUL. People dont like playing support yet they are 100% okay with playing a jungle support = wat

Weasel KenseiApr 13, 20171 votes

For MANY MONTHS... MANY...

Amumu Had the #1 win rate in the game.

Even before his recent buffs... that he didnt really need but someone at Riot ballance team loves the guy... he was in the top 10-20.

Now hes still in the top 5-10, with his current 55% win rate.

Why dont people dont complain about him more? They feel like hes better to play against than other champions because a lot of his ability is skillshot dependent. If he misses his Q, he kinda misses the whole gank. He can also be punished for mistakes as his only mobility is toward a target and cant bounce around and leave a fight he over committed to if his team wasnt ready or the initiation fails to cc an important target.

Amu wins enough that he should be considered OP, but you never hear about him because he doesnt feel like shit to play against like say... Vi. No real counterplay 100% catch ult that feel like shit to play against.

Ivern has had a good run, and something may need to be done about him. As far as strong for X patches goes, Amumu has him beat hard, very, very hard. I like Amumu, hes one of my favorite jungle champs. I dont jungle a lot, but I like him. He is definitively over-performing though. So Im not saying Ivern shouldnt be looked at. The opposite really. We could stand to see some small adjustments (SMALL RITO!) to some of the junglers. The jungle role has become so much more influential recently, couldnt hurt to expand the viable jg champs by toning some of them down and boosting a few others up.

Jeanne fan clubApr 13, 20171 votes

I heard an interesting idea from someone for why this is.

It went along the lines of Support items being extremely good, but Ivern is the only "support" who isn't gold starved because he is a JG.

What you do need to remember is that if you pick ivern, you are replacing a possible damage/tank role with another support. This in itself is extremely hard to balance.

If he had to be nerfed, I'd say make it so that objectives like drag and baron cannot be hidden by his bushes, but by doing that you would be removing a huge part of his kit.