when the fucking late game does not exist?????? EVERYTHING is decided by the first 10-15 mins of the game, meaning early game champs are kings. so why nerf a champions late game at all?! if they servive the cancer fest that is early game do they not deserve a power reward for making it to a non existent 35-40 min game?
Moody P4 votes"Early game champs are kings" while Cass and karthus are top tier in 3 different lanes?
I think not
lolipopevelynn5 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y7R6Wp8s,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-10T22:13:58.916+0000)
"Early game champs are kings" while Cass and karthus are top tier in 3 different lanes?
I think not
cass hasnt been a late game champ in a long time. she spikes off 1-2 items.
woodvsmurph1 votesVayne also spikes hard on 2 items, but she's still a late game champ. There's a difference between "power spike" and... peak of power curve. One is a jump in power for your champion likely due to synergy in itemization and champ kit. The other is when your champion is theoretically at their strongest point in the game for itemization and gold efficiency.
Like you might be stronger on 4 items and level 15 than you are on 2 items and level 10, but compared to what another champ gets from item 3 and 4... you don't get as much benefit from them or as much of an increase to your power. So other champs start catching up to you in power purely from making better use of the stats those 3rd and 4th items provide. That would be an early/mid game champ.
lolipopevelynn1 votesVayne also spikes hard on 2 items
thats the point dude... vayne is NOT suppose to spike off 2 items, atleast thats how she was originally designed. her late game was nerfed infavor of giving her a better early game. alot of champions have been hit this way with jax being the most recent, except for jax they nerfed BOTH his early and late game. vayne doesnt care if she gets late game, she simply cares about getting out of lane.
my point is why cant late game champs just stay powerful late game? 
is probably the only true late game champ left honestly.
SuicidePlank2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y7R6Wp8s,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-10T22:13:58.916+0000)
"Early game champs are kings" while Cass and karthus are top tier in 3 different lanes?
I think not
Karthus early is actually pretty good if you can hit your Qs.
boricCentaur13 votesI think your just giving up to easily I have had only like 3 games decided by 10 to 15 mins in and one of those lasted 38 mins. Also the majority of games are around 30 mins long.
woodvsmurph1 votesWelcome to all-too-common toxic NA mentality: I'm not winning laning phase? Let me turn off my brain and stop trying. I mean I could do my best and we could definitely win, but that sounds like too much work.
woodvsmurph1 votes
early game champ in an early game meta... 48% winrate top.
Buffs? No.??????
Poske1 votes
Check my last game Renekton stats
woodvsmurph1 votesMy point isn't that you can't win with renekton or hard carry with him. The point was that people who do so are doing so because of THEIR skill and THEIR outplays rather than because of the champion. Like I can play sona top in bronze as a smurf and make her look broken. But it doesn't mean she's good. For the past 2+ years I've more or less been the king of low gold elo renekton. And I do it all while being 2v1'd, counterpicked, given 0 assistance from my team, and generally running ignite into an opponent who may or may not run a 2nd laning summoner. So yeah, I know all about winning with renekton even when everyone else abandons him as "unplayable" due to nerfs, bugs, etc.
But think about it this way... Imagine a meta where we slightly nerf crit, but make the average game time last 45 min or so. Now... what adc's are going to be the strongest? Vayne, kog, kai'sa. So imagine a meta like that where vayne has 48% winrate while other late game adc's and hell even a lot of mid game adc's sit at 51-55% winrate for games lasting 45 min or longer. Can you tell me vayne wouldn't deserve a buff or else the other adc's performing better than her deserve a nerf? Of course not... every adc would be saying to buff vayne if they play her even a little in that scenario. It's the same thing with renekton and the early game. His scaling hasn't been buffed other than through itemization - which his counterparts can all also build and generally make about equal or even better use of. Yet he's completely lost the early game edge he used to have. Renekton with 0 kills isn't scary early compared to what he used to be. Sure if you manage to pick up a pair of kills early on - which requires outplay vs a scaling champ in a way that before wouldn't have required it... just you're renekton, you win - THEN he gets to where he used to be purely because he was renekton and it's early game. Then he is scary. And that's just my point. He's got too low a winrate considering he's theoretically still an early game lane bully champion in an early game meta. So either his early game advantage over more scaling champs needs to be restored, or he needs to be given more competitive scaling... because his scaling is still mostly crap. Oh you can make it work if you execute better than your opponent, but that's can be said of any champ. Like jax in a duel late game... he should win because he's jax and it's late game rather than only winning through outplay.
lolipopevelynn1 votes
why pick a shitty early game champ like renek when you can pick a better early game champ like 
woodvsmurph1 votesRenekton IS a weak champ right now yes, so there's not a lot of reason to pick him except for "because I like to play him". But he's SUPPOSED TO BE a strong early game lane bully. Which is my whole point. He's underpowered for where he should be at and either deserves restored status as lane bully or more competitive scaling. Leaving him with neither just leaves you with no reason to pick him other than that you enjoy his kit as you've pointed out.
Tahminatrix 1 votesIf this has anything to do with crit changes....
Champions that build crit / onhit should scale uniquely anyway and shouldn't ever be entirely dependent on getting full build, riot is making the crit build itself less powerful late and more powerful early and if they / the community wants certain adcs to be weaker / stronger at certain stages of the game it will happen and they will be changed at an individual level.