For the love of god revert Death Dance

DoktorKaiser·Jun 4, 2017·19 votes·1,851 views

This is the most gamebreaking item in a long long time. Please, lifesteal stacking champs were ALREADY broken, or at least pretty strong, and now its just not even fair, you might as well afk and let them kill you at will because when you make an item that counters burst and its made for lifesteal champions whose only counter in the game is that same fucking burst, maybe, JUST MAYBE it wasnt such a good idea ????
Please, its not even funny to abuse it any more, let alone play vs it...

32 Comments

NinjaGuy69Jun 4, 201710 votes

Yeah, they definitely dropped the ball with Death's Dance. Unfortunately, Riot has a habit of over-buffing underused items just so that people start to build them but in doing so, they end up over-buffing the item sometimes.

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20174 votes

I would have been totally ok with a huge buff but not the new passive it just breaks the game. Fiora and Draven are absolute cancer atm...

UnvictusJun 5, 20172 votes

Ya Fiora is the biggest abuser of the item imo.

Automated RivenJun 5, 20174 votes

Idk ... riven is abusing it pretty hard also. its hella strong on her.

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20171 votes

Also 1 unexpected pick that abuses it so hard - Wukong

UnvictusJun 5, 20172 votes

Ya it's strong on her too, but Fiora has built in sustain tho. So that plus deaths dance makes her very hard to kill. Not to mention she often picks up either BT or Ravenous, and sometimes both.

SolidariusJun 5, 20172 votes

what does the new passive does exactly...

item 3812 ... 30% of damage taken is dealt as a bleed effect over 3 seconds.

so if Syndra ultis me for 1,000 damage does this mean I only take 700 damage and the rest(300) over 3 secs?

dont really understand how bleed works wished I played talon more often lol

also what happens if multiple people attack me at once lets say I get focused with like 3-5 ultis does it reduce them all by 30%?

VallalanJun 5, 20172 votes

yes that is what it means. all damage is shifted to a bleed that is dealt to you again over time as true damage.

all damage adds up and death's dance keeps track of all of it.

GeshultzJun 5, 20175 votes

Just some questions I ask myself below.

Is the item too strong in ADC role?

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/adc/platinum

6.5% pickrate with 55.4% winrate compared to bloodthirster with 8.9% pickrate and 60.3% winrate Not Overpowered for ADCs at all.

Next look top lane.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/top/platinum

8.2% pickrate with 58.9% winrate compared to item 3074 pickrate of 10.1% and winrate of 56.5%

It only has a 2.5% higher winrate then Hyrda, which is lowered by a higher pickrate overall from all champions. So death's dance not overpowered here.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/middle/platinum

Death's dance rarely is picked up in mid at 0.9% pickrate and 57.9% winrate

Overall verdict: Death's dance isn't overpowered or strong at all, but is slightly stronger or weaker depending on the role it is being used. It is honestly balanced at the moment.

NineTailedMysticJun 5, 20176 votes

Sorry, thought I could actually burst ADCs.

GeshultzJun 5, 20171 votes

Well, do you have any proof that any adc other then draven and rarely kalista build it in plat+

Do you have proof of this impossible to burst ADC concept when alone?

Cause the only thing death's dance is increase their effective health against burst by 30% for a second at most. Taking Miss fortunes health the most for an ADC with black clever gives 1975 (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Fortune) with 400 health from clever gives 2375 total health and with 1.3 increase is to 3087.5 e health against burst for 1 second keeping in mind all the damage is still dealt and most mage builds/assassin builds normal are abundant with cooldown reduction at 30-40% and normally have also auto attacks and other burst modifiers that add damage and also reduce resists.

NineTailedMysticJun 5, 20173 votes

No, but I've seen it on Cait and Lucian, off the top of my head. And it prevented me from doing my job against them as a Burst Mage against them with nothing I can do about it, while they just heal up off of me because I have no CDs. At least Maw an Sterak's had semi-exploitable cooldowns.

Just because people don't build it frequently in plat+ doesn't mean it's not incredibly frustrating to deal with.

GeshultzJun 5, 20171 votes

Well, to be fair Ahri(Your burst mage of choice) also has one of the lowest damage of all the mages in the game as a burst mage due to her amount of mobility in her kit. In, which case sustain in general is more effective against lower levels of burst in general with or without death's dance. In general maw is way more effective against burst mages in general then death's dance, as it gives flat effective health vs magic damage, along with resists and sustain. In any case, is way more frustrating to be bursted down in less then a second or to have a chance to even react. (We had this type of meta with lethality... Not that fun at all.) but there are a bunch of things in this game that are frustrating. For most people its mobility for a variety of reasons(Look at most of the hate threads are generally due to mobility) followed by being 1 shot , its why riot has added so many anti-burst tools for all classes. In, honestly banshee's veil is 10x more frustrating to play against as any tank for me but again is opinion as are all emotions.

Weight of LawJun 5, 20174 votes

They should reduced the damage bleed to 20% or just fully revert it to 15% honestly.

Proxy345Jun 5, 20173 votes

Its the perfect item for Olaf lol

AL000Jun 5, 20171 votes

no... only apply on his q...

item 3153 or item 3074 / item 3748 is better

Rocnation98Jun 5, 20173 votes

item 3065 + item 3812 + Any other lifesteal

AseeyaJun 5, 20172 votes

What's the problem with this item again? Its not exactly a burst counter - the damage is still there, its just delayed. If someone builds this they get completely screwed over by healing reduction, crit or crowd control. Not to mention DoT abilities turn even more dangerous Malzahar Zyra item 3151

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20171 votes

You do understand that champions who stack lifesteal heal for almost half their HP in just 1 autoattack. So even with item 3123 they will heal for 20-25% of their max HP per autoattack. I am pretty sure that its stronger than the bleed damage so it literally turns them into super drain tanks that also deal insane damage because they actually built full AD and maybe item 3065 to further boost the heal and counter burst mages. If you cant 1 shot champions like Fiora, Draven, Riven, Yi, Trynd etc. I really dont see how you will ever kill them now since they also pack one of the best DPS in the game.

Cosmic WarperJun 5, 20171 votes

riot loves to make AD items busted. Edge of night, old cleaver, maw, and now death's dance. All huge problems at their strongest.

GeshultzJun 5, 20171 votes

Riot in general makes certain items broken with their class updates. Raylis, Sunfire cape, Iceborn gauntlet, mecurial scimitar. However, I see no evidence of death's dance is broken. If it was such a broken item it would be literally rushed in LCS and other competitive scenes all the time and we would see it being done in high elo solo queue. Which again isn't happening. I would say that doran's shield is honestly the most broken item in last 3 patches.

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20172 votes

Did you see Ssumdays Fiora yesterday? Do you watch any of the challenger streamers? Did you see qtpie's Draven ?? Did you see his Twitch clip where he gets literally clusterfucked by 4 champions as Draven and fucking survives and then proceeds to heal over 50% of HP with every autoattack and fucking kills them all ??? Did you notice that even before the item rework Fiora and Riven were the most picked top laners in high elo and now they both build this item 100% of the time?? How is it not used in high elo ??? The only reason its not used much in LCS is because they always prefered tanks to squishy lifesteal ones because they can be camped and made useless by an organized team and whenever they are constantly getting picked it means that they are broken (Fiora is now picked often, Riven will probably follow soon so you put 2 and 2 together). In solo queue its a much much bigger problem.

Radiant WukongJun 5, 20171 votes

I say change the healing to physical spells only so AA doesn't benefit from it.

VallalanJun 5, 20171 votes

the item is only broken on ADCs in my opinion. bruisers/etc are strong with it, but the item doesn't actually reduce any damage, it just delays it for a few seconds making someone a tiny bit tankier. so thus unless you can out lifesteal/sustain the bleed you aren't reducing any damage and its a shitty item on you.

adcs can easily out sustain the bleed so long as they can keep auto attacking. it does make the feel of the item a rush though. you may survive that burst from syndra now but holy shit you better turn on someone and auto attack immediately or you are gonna die. its not a tank item in the sense that if you get chunked super hard you can just pussy out and come back at a good time. you have to stay in threat range and keep fighting.

that said, as a rush item on duelist adcs like Lucian, Draven its just filthy. you already can't duel them and the item just makes them effectively tanky in the mid game since they can outsustain the bleed.

DD/PD/Tabi combo with maybe a hexdrinker and you have everything you need to deal decent damage, sustain up, and survive burst so long as you don't play like a bitch and run when you get chunked.

that said, because it does have some counterplay I'd imagine its less good against better players. it feels broken in lower elos because most players try to keep bursting the person with death's dance and you don't even need to do that. just get your burst off and run. don't let them auto trade you back. if they have nothing to auto they will just bleed out.

like I had a game where I was syndra ulted for like 90% of my life and i knew if i didn't auto SOMETHING i was going to bleed out fast. she just flashed away immediately. she didnt try to finish me with Q or anything. she just walked away. she knew i was dead. thats how you play against it.

still probably broken, but its not quite as broken as some shit I've seen. (maw/steraks being stackable for example)

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20171 votes

Hey I am not saying that its strong on every bruiser or melee or anything, just on ADs who stack a fuckton of lifesteal. They already had enough to draintank hard and now you cant even burst them down 100-0 that easily. And you can hardly run away from Fiora or Riven or Draven or Lucian or Wukong without them landing a single auto on you and if your only suggested counterplay : is blow your whole combo and flash away, then its a terrible counterplay because any counterplay that requires you to flash/use all mobility to run away from someone is not a counterplay.

its me brnaJun 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hey I am not saying that its strong on every bruiser or melee or anything, just on ADs who stack a fuckton of lifesteal. They already had enough to draintank hard and now you cant even burst them down 100-0 that easily. And you can hardly run away from Fiora or Riven or Draven or Lucian or Wukong without them landing a single auto on you and if your only suggested counterplay : is blow your whole combo and flash away, then its a terrible counterplay because any counterplay that requires you to flash/use all mobility to run away from someone is not a counterplay.

I fail to see this being the result of the item. Do you realize how bad this sounds? "I can't run away from extremely mobile champions", well no shit, what did you expect? They are given mobility for a reason.. you aren't supposed to be able to run away from them easily. All of these champions were doing the same thing they're doing now, before Death's Dance was even buffed. There's no statistics on any of the League sites that point to Death's Dance being broken on any champion. It's only being built as a situational or defensive item on the majority of champions who build it, and even then it has a fairly average / below average purchase rate. The item is doing exactly what it's intended too.

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20171 votes

I wrote that in response to the person above claiming that the counterplay to this item is "dont get hit so they wont lifesteal and they will bleed out". Of course you cant fucking run away from champions using this item because they are all super mobile.

And yes all of them played exactly the same as they do now, except that now they get the item which is literally "lower enemy burst by 30%" item. I am sorry but I think that is fucking unacceptable. How do you kill champion like Fiora in general? Do you let your tanks distract her with her being a better tank buster than Vayne? Do you try to let ADC out-DPS her with her retarded mobility? Do you try to hardcore engage on her with her riposte? No, you wait for her to repost or get cc-ed and let the high bursters blow her up except now they wont EVER burst her and she will always get a Q in and lifesteal half her HP and murder everyone. She is by far the bigest abuser of this item, its abused both in LCS and in high elo , looking at stats sucks because it has to take imbeciles into account, I am not going to pray that my enemy is an imbecile who cant abuse broken items to win. Other abusers also have their strenghts, Riven already has a shield so she is even harder to burst, Draven hits like a truck so he lifesteals more than others and is also ranged etc etc.

This is a seriously toxic item, it may not be abused by more than 10 champions, but those who do abuse it are abusing it sooooo fucking hard that its not even funny. Most pathetic thing is that those 10 champs were the only ones who would consider buying this item before its ridiculous buffs, but only as a situational item, so if RIOT wanted to make this item more popular on other champs they failed miserably, they literally just hard-buffed the ones already using it. Now its mandatory on them, because why wouldnt you abuse something broken and get freelo unless you have 42 brain cells which of course many people playing this game have so that is affecting your precious statistics.

SpârkyJun 5, 20171 votes

Sigh can adc's have any way of building defensive. This isn't even an abusive item for adc's the main person that abuses this imo is graves. But my thoughts on this is that it got buffed because the 15% damage converted to a bleed did almost nothing. With this 30% if an adc for example lets take Lucian builds it third item and has bork and black cleaver. If he builds it third item then he is trading survivability for more a/s or even damage like if he built ER or IE. I think it is fine right now and I personally am happy with what they did to it.

DoktorKaiserJun 5, 20171 votes

Guardian Angel is not enough ? Mercurial is not enough ? Botrk is not enough? Maw? Cleaver? Having high range combined with the highest damage in the game is so bad amirite? Actually its so bad that you need an item that literally turns any AD champion including ADC that builds even 1 and especially the ones that build 2+ lifesteal items into a Mundo with ulti on...

SpârkyJun 5, 20171 votes

Ill start by just going through your items you listed and saying what I think is why deaths dance should still be a niche defensive item for adc's

Guardian Angel: I don't personally like this item on adc's because the revive takes too long and sure its good if you are snowballing really hard and you need to absolutely not die but its just so much better to get an ie or another lifesteal item.
Mercurial: While I think mercurial is fairly common among adc's all it does is let you get rid of cc and yes it is a defensive item most people (including me) will mess it up and just immediately get hit by another cc spell
Botrk: Probably the most common adc item in the game but again it is very niche because if the enemy team doesn't have a bruiser or tank the passive is almost useless. Although this is still a really good item especially on people like lucian and ezreal
Maw: Maw is pretty good i guess. If they have ap on their team. What if the enemy team has zed and like some stupid crap like a yasuo top or gp top and their jg plays graves or lee. They are full ad and what defensive item can I build then? Sure GA will help for one life but I need to be able to live through the burst of zed yas graves.
Cleaver: Riot has said in the past that they really dont like adc's abusing this item. I personally don't like the item on adc's even lucian I just dont think that it is that good anymore after the repeated nerfs.
Having high range: Unless you are at higher elo (i dont know what your elo is so i'm not gonna assume anything) most adc's (again including me) can't position in fights well at all and get caught out all the time so having high range doesn't really help. And the fact that syndra's ult has the range of most the adc's auto attacks minus maybe cait and late game trist.

Summary: Although I understand why deaths dance may be frustrating it gives adc's a certain niche item to pick up and use in certain situations. Just like Mercurial is niche if they have lots of easy cc to lane like a naut hook or thresh hook. Maw is niche when there is high ap damage on their team. Where as for me there are very few people that can abuse the deaths dance passive of "you heal 15% for ALL physical damage dealt" which includes spells. That's where lucian comes in. Lucian and xayah are the only two champs that I actually build deaths dance on because they have high physical damage spells that actually make the passive worth it. The only thing I could think of to change it would be make it more of a trade off for damage for survivability. Make deaths dance build out of just a singular longsword or make it since it builds out of caulfields and vamp scepter which combine for +35 ad just make the final item like +50 ad instead of +80. Otherwise I feel like there aren't that many abuse cases. Even Botrk has way more abuse cases.