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most of the changes in MYMU are teemoing mages

The Deckowner··36 votes·2,405 views

FYI Teemoing a champion means adding unnecessary/useless mechanic into champion's kit then nerfing the champion's actual power, causing the champion to become significantly weaker because the new mechanic does not compensate the loss oftheir original power. (for example rito added moving while stealth in bush and bouncing shroom in teemo's kit which are now globally considered as useless mechanic, then heavily nerfed his ap ratio, cd and duration of his shroom, causing direct nerf to teemo's power).

some mages we can consider teemoed: Viktor(a burst mage) gets DPS on ult while his maind dmg ability deathray and augment were nerfed to become unreliable.

Fiddlestick gets more mobility but majority of his kit require him stand still.

vlad gets a reworked kit which has tones of counterplay to the point where there are few counterplay to his counterplay.

veigar gets ap when dmging enemy champ but lost the ability to oneshot people and still have to farm q, the play stlye is barely changed at all.

many of the other mages I have not faced or played, but from the patch note it looks like majority of them got number nerfed(both in their kit and items) just for some unnecessary mechanics...

75 Comments

13743416 votes

Fiddlestick gets more mobility but majority of his kit require him stand still.

That is why the mobility is tied to standing still. It helps you engage with the ult (extra movement speed after the ult channel), and it helps you either run after people who escape your W range or quickly leave the area after W (depending on what is optimal for the situation).

veigar gets ap when dmging enemy champ but lost the ability to oneshot people and still have to farm q, the play stlye is barely changed at all.

They weren't trying to change his playstyle. They wanted to give him a better passive that doubles up on his theme (stacking AP) while making his ult more fair for enemy mages than just "well you shouldn't build AP on your AP scaling champ."

Naomi CoffeeGoat1 votes

That Veigar change was by far the most welcome in this patch. You just aren't punished anymore for doing well against him and the skill being point and click had so little counterplay to it.

Smitty Manjensen10 votes

You haven't played a single game with all of those champions except veigar, meanwhile you complain how they suck, well at least play one game even though more should be played to assess their strength.

Flaherty5 votes

Dude Teemo being able to put mushrooms at a distance is a huge buff and makes him actually fun to play. Before it was just "put all the mushrooms in one side of the map to make that area pretty much off limits" which is boring and really unfun to play against. And in team fights it was pretty much useless because you either had to A: run up into the middle of the fight and put it down pretty much guaranteeing your death or B: not use your ult and just use Q and autos which is significantly less damage output.

I haven't played enough of the mages to make a good comment about them so I can't say too much about it, but the movespeed on Fidd seems really good because it allows him to position better after ulting to get the most damage done and also helps him position better for fears after they changed the way enemies move when feared.

The Deckowner8 votes

able to throw shrooms at a 300 unit distance is 100% not a buff.

shrooms has an arm time, which means if u throw it right at the enemy, ithe enemy can SEE IT and easily walk away and u just wasted a chunk of ur mana. they also nerfed the proc range of the shroom and the vision gain by shroom so it is extremely hard to actually explod a shroom when throwing ti right at the enemy. teemo is all about set up and control, he is never a teamfight champion and there is no reason to make him one. during teamfights with the broken oracle which everyone can get for free at level 9 throwing shrooms into the enemy means abdolutely nothing. if u wanna teamfight u make a minefield before the fight start not just ranomly throw shrooms in a fight.

1374346 votes

It is hard to argue, however, that it is an unnecessary or useless mechanic like you do in the opening.

It is a helpful mechanic because it allows you to safely make a minefield without having to face check bushes or while maintaining safer position. You are also not required to throw it, you can plop them down right next you in teamfights just like old Teemo.

Teemo got a lot of problems, but it wasn't the addition of the throwing mechanic that was a nerf- it was all the other changes Riot did in conjunction with it (shroom duration and oracle changes specifically, although the second one was later).

The Deckowner2 votes

honestly if a garen is ambushing for ur ass, 300 range wont help u.

i might have worded wrong but the point is rito adding random thingys they consider buffs and heavily nerf the rest of teemo's strength.

The Blue Rajah1 votes

You know it's only 300 range at rank one right? By rank three it's 900, which is pretty significant

Llanite2 votes

It's one of the best change Teemo has received in years, which let him take more active role in teamfight. And the range scales with level FYI.

Fidd MS buff makes his R reliable without flash. Vlad change made him more vulnerable to burst but also has more healing.

Please restraint from discussing topics you have zero idea about.

J Eevo1 votes

Vlad change actually changed him to have more upfront burst in exchange for less sustain. 3rd Q does hit for more and heals for quite a bit, but the regular Q doesn't do nearly as much as the old q and that's not counting old vlad having spellvamp.

I actually enjoy the more bursty vlad quite a bit but he definitely lost a lot of his sustain to make it possible.

Llanite1 votes

Dont play him but I have the impression that he heals more, like a lot more, especially pre-9. COmbo that killed him before now can only do 70% or so.

J Eevo1 votes

That's just related to the fact he builds more tanky than before, since the ratio on hp to ap was raised, and most of the items have mana as a stat now. The 3rd q is respectable but the rest of his sustain was nerfed heavily, I often see vlad's trying to get back up to full and it takes them way longer than it should.

EfficientDynamo1 votes

You are forgetting that with the throw distance Teemo can actually participate in teamfights. Just throw a shroom into their minion wave and watch everyone get poisoned when the minions trigger it.

Eyesack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y3dXXGXl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-05T15:41:15.162+0000)

able to throw shrooms at a 300 unit distance is 100% not a buff.

shrooms has an arm time, which means if u throw it right at the enemy, ithe enemy can SEE IT and easily walk away and u just wasted a chunk of ur mana. they also nerfed the proc range of the shroom and the vision gain by shroom so it is extremely hard to actually explod a shroom when throwing ti right at the enemy. teemo is all about set up and control, he is never a teamfight champion and there is no reason to make him one. during teamfights with the broken oracle which everyone can get for free at level 9 throwing shrooms into the enemy means abdolutely nothing. if u wanna teamfight u make a minefield before the fight start not just ranomly throw shrooms in a fight.

increased range on an ability is strictly a buff.

TekkenPlayer3 votes

The initial diameter nerf of anvias ult was not very good. It's very clunky and makes it harder to trade with anyone

Verdade3 votes

Add Vel'koz, adding unnecessary true damage and mana refunds while completely butchering his WER combo - bread and butter of every VK player.

Xx420n0sc0p3sxX2 votes

They buffed his r after a passive proc massively though

Verdade2 votes

They did not. It dealt way more damage before...

Xx420n0sc0p3sxX2 votes

Straight from the wiki:

Base damage increased to 500 / 725 / 950 from 500 / 700 / 900. AP ratio increased to 100% AP from 60% AP.

It doesn't proc passive anymore, but if you proc passive before hand it does true damage. If you're gonna tell me 950+100% of your ap as true damage isn't alot you're 100% wrong.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Vel'Koz/Background

Bottom of the page above comment section.

Verdade1 votes

Exactly, you don't understand anything about Vel, you only look at the numbers and say its a buff. But really, it's not.

Vel'koz is long range burst mage. That means he wants to deal as much damage as possible while being in safe distance. His bread and butter combo is W+E+R. Both W and E have travel time, meaning you already know if they are going to hit before they hit. So you use R before these two connect.

So here's damage distribution of WER combo OLD 80% of your burst is in first 1.5 seconds, and in these 1.5 seconds your target is mostly stunned so he can't do anything about that. The rest (1 second) is just your R firing off, not proccing anything, just doing its ability damage. NEW You need to wait until both E lands and W procs twice, and THEN you press your R. This means your "BURST" is long 4 seconds and damage is spread almost evenly.

His R is now much more situational, as it does laughable damage while being ridiculously easy to dodge/interrupt because Vel is stunned, his R turn rate is pretty bad and everyone got dash nowdays.

As for numbers:

W+E damage is decreased by 0.025AP, R damage is decreased from 1291+0.6AP to 950+1.0 AP. The difference between true and magical damage is non-existent, barring masteries that reduce damage by %. Vel'koz always build full MRpen, meaning he dealt true damage to everything below 80 or 89 MR, depending on rune setup. His primary targets were always squishies in back line, NOT TANKS.

TLDR: He hits for less and his burst is spread out instead of being front-loaded, which is devastating for immobile squishy mage

Xx420n0sc0p3sxX1 votes

You can still definitely R before e and w fully go off. You may not get true damage at first, but you will get it 0.5-1 second later. Vel has a new playstyle of being a team melter, like twitch or kog. Let them hit you're team, and you're fk'd. I also do not understand why you wouldn't q in your combo, but that isn't relevant right now. Now for his R:

1291+0.6AP 950+1.0 AP

Assuming 600 ap, as vel likes magic pen over ap, you would have about 1650 damage with old ult, and 1550 with new ult. Then you realize it can potentially deal true damage. Since his ult is an aoe and will definetly be hitting multiple targets, some that have more than 80-89 mr, this is a buff. His passive also got a ratio.

Vel isn't that different from before, and if you proc passive, his ult is beyond powerful

Verdade2 votes

You're assuming few things incorrectly: 1.600 AP on Vel'koz? Really? Here's what VK builds:

Sorcs Guise, later Liandry Luden's Void Staff Morello's Zhonyas/Blue sightstone, depending on where he plays This means he maxes out with less than 500 AP... and in how many games you will be actually maxed out? 1 out of 10?

You don't use Q in WER combos because it has cast time, unlike W and R. E has cast time so you can't use E and Q at the same time, but you would know that if you were VK main. Also Q is really unreliable when compared to W/E/R, because it has pretty big hitbox, stops at first target and its moving slower than rest of his projectiles.

Vel has a new playstyle of being team melter... He always was team melter, these changes nerfed it, plain and simple. You are not going to WE enemy squishies in teamfight, you're way too fragile for that. Instead you look for an opening, perfect position to line up your ultimate so it deals as much damage possible to priority targets. Q can be used as poke/zoning, and W/E as safety net or cleanup.

I suggest you to go and play him, his R hits like wet noodle right now.

Hyperiön2 votes

Veigar can still 1 shot people. Happened in 2 of my games last night.

The Deckowner2 votes

not like old veigar when ult can actually oneshot his ult is just such an overkill now

agbudar6 votes

lots of veigar's run around with 1200 ap around 20-30 minutes of farming so idk they seem to one shot people just fine

The Deckowner3 votes

oneshot by definition is literally use one ability and 100 to 0 someone.

veigar lost that privilige with the ult change.

agbudar2 votes

ok im sorry but one shot mechanic are not good and its not like he cant 100-0 anyone with that much ap

The Deckowner3 votes

U actually cant. I had 1.4k ap and i q ult the enemy adc and they still survived with a quarter of their hp and just heal to full by autoattacking stuff and lifesteal off it.

TheSnackbar9993 votes

This is why we e>w>q>r instead of forgetting half of is kit.

The Deckowner2 votes

except e and w are not easy to land unless 1 the target has no vision of u (unlikely duraing a teamfight) 2 the target dont have qss/flash/blink/cc immune 3. the target is dumb enough to walk into ur e

Senate1 votes

Typically, it takes some effort and luck to predict where they're walking. Furthermore, the chaos of team fights causes people to be a lot less responsive to the Event Horizon. The likelihood of someone getting stunned is rather high.

AlwaysByMySide4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y3dXXGXl,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-05T18:52:49.858+0000)

oneshot by definition is literally use one ability and 100 to 0 someone.

veigar lost that privilige with the ult change.

Good.

Also, you're literally insane if you think Veigar is worse now.

Narasimha6 votes

And here my friend, you are wrong.

One shot in League hasn't meant 'One ability = death' for a LONG time. One shot means one rotation. If we're counting one ability kills, its really impossible to say anything one shot someone. And no one wants to say "He used a whole spell rotation to instantly kill me!" every time. So, it becomes "he one shot me!" to mean "He used one spell set to kill me!"

Karma Deified2 votes

Yes, exactly this.

adding unnecessary/useless mechanic into champion's kit then nerfing the champion's actual power,

I don't even know why I was excited for the update. Riot's only high points so far this year have been Jhin and Champ Select. One of which was just some icing on a turd.

SIayton2 votes

Pretty much this. Velkoz got the ability to do slightly more damage to a single target at the cost of his AOE damage, his ability to build utility, and his wave clear.

Whoever is reworking champions lately just needs to be replaced. They're doing an awful job and missing the mark on almost every champion.

The Deckowner1 votes

i got outpushed by a yasuo as velkoz... very depressing.

Serpents Embrace2 votes

Well, now I have a word for how they forced Grounded in to Cassiopeia's kit at the expense of power, range and ease of use. Thanks.

Big Lincoln1 votes

veigar gets ap when dmging enemy champ but lost the ability to oneshot people and still have to farm q, the play stlye is barely changed at all.

how did he lose the ability to one-shot people

damage is buffed across the board unless you ult a full-health target

Audiomancy1 votes

Because now you have to wait at least 1.2s to ult, during which the target is likely to escape?

Big Lincoln1 votes

what the fuck are you talking about

there's no delay on your ult and for any squishy it's the same combo, QR

if anything you're more likely to kill them than you were before

The Deckowner2 votes

1.4k ap was not enough to oneshot a squishy who didnt build any mr other than qss with QR.

Audiomancy1 votes

The 1.2s is the drop time of W. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Veigar's ult now does shit damage on a high-HP target.

Steel Blossom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y3dXXGXl,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-05T15:05:37.929+0000)

Viktor(a burst mage) gets DPS on ult while his maind dmg ability deathray and augment were nerfed to become unreliable.

Making assassins unreliableAkali Ekko Fiora Talon Leblanc Kassadin and no one bats an eye. Make a mage ureliable, everyone loses their minds.

The Deckowner1 votes

maybe it is because the "reliable" mages' abilities are mostly skillshots while assasins are mostly point and click?

Steel Blossom1 votes

Yeah sadly no matter how point and click I am, you can still dodge all my shit with a Zhonya. Pretty sure that late game a 2.5 sec stasis is way better than a 400 ap shield..avoiding like 2k+ dmg vs avoiding 400? Seems fair.

The Deckowner1 votes

as if zhonyas doesn't avoid EVERYONE's dmg.

as if u can actually cast point and click abilities when the target is in stasis.

as if everyone is dumb enough to use their abilities to hit a stasis target.

Steel Blossom1 votes

So if people aren't dumb enough to use abilities on untargetable things, why is Fizz's E such a problem?

The Deckowner1 votes

because zhonyas has 120 second cd and fizz E has 4 second cd? because Zhonyas is a expansive item and fizz E is a regular ability?

Steel Blossom1 votes

Yeah but Fizz can't snipe you with his full combo from a thousand units away either. People going in on ranged mages are committing to the kill 99% of the time. They should get rewarded for being able to close the gap and bypass the mage's front line, not have their efforts made into a punchline by an item that is available to literally every mage.

The Deckowner1 votes

Mages should be rewarded for buying a super gold inefficient item then. Assassins never have any issues getting into the mages' faces anyways. They have overloaded amount of mobility and extremely efficient items. I think ur head is a bit hot right now since u are saying fizz is healthier than mages and you stated mages can snipe u from ten teemos away. Literally all the mid year mage rework are mages who are mid to short ranged.(except for velkoz but his only 1k range ability is his ultimate)

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