Cinderhulk must be buffed with health items being nerfed or every tank jungler is going Runic Echoes

PapaGreg21·Apr 8, 2017·3 votes·403 views

This is such an obvious adjustment that I don't know why it isn't already on the PBE. I can only guess that once everyone takes Runic Echoes, Riot will think Runic is too strong and then nerf that, and then nobody will play tank junglers or AP junglers (as if many people were already, lol) and Lee Sin will go from 40% play rate (currently, which is also ridiculous) to 92% play rate. Then there will be an outrage from the community that both teams can't pick Lee Sin so they will have to make a clone character named Rick Sin.

7 Comments

Eternal TormentApr 8, 20173 votes

as much as i can even smell the salt all the way across the atlantic, it is actually a decent truth. if they end up nerfing the Problem instead of buffing the solution it will create one hustle out of solving another opening an endless Loop of breaking nerfs and item changes like we had it for the jungle in the late stages of Season 6 where they had to both nerf warriors cinde and runic AND buff that new 4th item whos Name i totally forgot so it would find a more decent spot.

i do not wanna live through such a massive shitstorm again, it made me quit jungle altogether and i moved to the midlane

ErockandrollApr 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed Bot Tacocat,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y1EB5Mhn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-08T13:28:23.876+0000)

as much as i can even smell the salt all the way across the atlantic, it is actually a decent truth. if they end up nerfing the Problem instead of buffing the solution it will create one hustle out of solving another opening an endless Loop of breaking nerfs and item changes like we had it for the jungle in the late stages of Season 6 where they had to both nerf warriors cinde and runic AND buff that new 4th item whos Name i totally forgot so it would find a more decent spot.

i do not wanna live through such a massive shitstorm again, it made me quit jungle altogether and i moved to the midlane

the 4th item your thinking off was probably Devourer. Not sure if your meant the first kind, or the sated variant. (Either one was pretty horrible.)

Not sure where Warrior's fits into that. It just the one item that's hopelessly bland.

But to be perfectly honest, I don't actually think there's much basis in the belief that Runic Echo is going to be gutted just because no one builds Cinder hulk. For that to hold any weight, Jungle Tanks basically would have to be on top. But as far as I can tell, the top tier jungler at the moment use the warrior enchantment.

However, I can agree that Cinderhulk is kinda losing it's strategic niche. Runic Echo accomplishes two things, 1) mana sustain, and 2) clear speed. Now Cinderhulk was created to give tanks clear speed, and be able to keep up with their counterparts, But it just seems like Runic echo does one better, or if not in clear speed, in ganking power. Though I think the solution to that issue is more with the champions. Those champs should have more synergy with HP scaling, and less with AP scaling.

JbelsApr 8, 20173 votes

I mean, a lot of tanks in the jungle already build runic. The only champ I play in the jungle that I build cinderhulk on right now is Warwick

PapaGreg21Apr 8, 20171 votes

100% agree. At least cinderhulk is viable now though even though many times Runic is simply better. If there are health costs nerfs throughout the board though, Cinderhulk is going to be the new Ohmwrecker.

Big LincolnApr 8, 20171 votes

I had no trouble getting high HP on the PBE

and cinderhulk clears faster, so I don't see the trouble

PapaGreg21Apr 8, 20171 votes

Cinderhulk doesn't always clear faster as it just depends on the tank. For example Sejuani scales off health so her clear may be faster with cinderhulk but somebody like Zac or malphite will clear faster with runic because they have no scaling with health. If you are hitting a monster with echo you are also doing 250% magic damage on it and you are getting a lot of mana back so you can spam your abilties on camps and not worry about going oom. Even though you are getting high HP and it feels like like not much of a nerf, the math doesn't lie. There will be less HP available with other items meaning that the synergy of cinderhulk will be objectively worse.

Big LincolnApr 8, 20171 votes

I'm still getting 5k health on Udyr and Volibear, so the resists going up in tandem is a buff to EHP