The PBE Patch 8.2 is a gigantic mess (long post)

DeusVult··7 votes·5,470 views

This post is only going to talk about the balance changes, not the skins, icons etc included in the PBE material

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

Lets start off by talking about how Riot is handling the problem of laners taking support items. ATM, they will be removing both sightstone AND the third tier support items, along with their current quest lines. Sightstone and support items will be combined together, so that T2 support items + a ruby crystal will become a sightstone. After a 500 gold quest is completed.

What. The. Fuck. There are so many other ways that this could have been handled, but since this is what we have atm, lets talk about the pros and cons of this: Pros:

  • New and auto-filled supports will be getting a sightstone far more often, as it builds pretty much automatically out of the support lines. (This generally only happens at lower elos where players don't fully value vision and are more greedy for KDA rather than looking at gold generation. So in some cases, supports will still not get or use a the vision aspect of this.)
  • With the removal of the quest lines, laners will be less likely to use support items, ADCs especially since they no longer get the shield. (This is speculation and remains to be seen. ADCs might still run shield for safer lane, and then both ADC and Support will have vision control, and ADC can still go blue ward and support sweeper. Klepto solo laners can still use Spell thief lines for procs and mana regen. It dissuades them from taking the support items, but doesn't eliminate them from taking them.)

Cons:

  • Reduces supports item pathing and variation. Also reduces the supports skill expression. 3 actives are getting removed from the game, the quest lines that encouraged supports are getting removed, and you can no longer opt into an "early" sightstone for deep warding or defensive vision control. Supports only option now is first building support line, unless we see a return of an item as powerful as ardent, where it forces supports to rush that item before anything else.
  • Increases the snowball nature of the game. Because vision is now attached to a quest line that involves using you support item, if one team gets ahead they can get earlier access to vision and make easier plays, while the team that is behind lacks vision for longer and cannot opt into anything to remedy this. If you cannot access the lane to proc you item 3303 item 3302 stacks then you cannot gain your vision passive.
  • With the removal of the actives, support mains now have less options when it comes to skill expression. No longer any clutch FotM shields, FQC bard ults, Janna disengages with ToA.
  • All the champs who currently take the support items can STILL take them, so other occurrences of this can happen in the future.

Currently we really only see the support item abuse from 2 distinct groups of champs: ADCs using relic line to increase their safety via the Overheal and Fleet Footwork masteries, and Klepto solo laners using Spellthief line to just auto-poke gold advantages against their laning opponent.

We don't see people use people use Ancient Coin line because Riot has made it unusable for solo laners: It brings no combat stats, and the gold and mana coin drops ONLY WORK IF AN ALLY KILLS THE MINION. So it cannot be used in a solo lane to just soak gold, and ADCs cannot use it as supports would have to last hit then. As for jungle items, Riot has made the excellent choice of limiting you to 1 gold income item, and now jungle items are added to that as well, so you cannot have a jungle item and a gold income item. RIP season 2 meta...

Now how could Riot have handled this better? Instead of taking the easy way out, they could have worked to not just dissuade the abusers from taking the items, but better limiting them strictly to the support role. Relic line could have been made melee only. RIP Thresh, but he can use coin, and it solves the problem of ADCs taking Relic Shield in one fell swoop. Solo laners don't take this item anyway because it requires 2 champs to work, so that is already solved. It would also allow players to finally not lose their shit as their support misses ANOTHER cannon minion...

Spellthiefs currently pauses generating stacks for 8 seconds when the user kills a minion. This effect remains until it is upgraded to FQC or EotW, where stacks continue generating even when CSing. But only supports fully upgrade to FQC or EotW as both cost 2200g, so it isn't optimal for a laner to invest that much for the benefits that they are getting by running the support item. In fact, it takes away the point of running it. Champs who are currently using spellthiefs are also double dipping with Klepto and using targetted auto-resets to out-gold their opponents. Looking at you GP. If you were to make it so that BOTH the passive gold and the tribute gold paused whenever a minion was killed for X+5 seconds, X being the current number of minion kills that that champ currently had, then you would remove access to any laner would would want to use it., as after the second wave they would effectively stop generating gold and tribute stacks from the item, or they would give up CS. FQC and EotW would still allow you to CS and generate gold so as not to effect mid game support gold generation.

And with these changes, you could leave sightstone in the game, but with one stipulation. You can only buy sightstone if you have a support item line. So, a support could start with a support item, and then get a sightstone on their back. RIP Lee Sin.

At that point, all support items would remain in the game, with little way for solo laners to abuse them at all, and supports still benefit from them and their unique quest lines.

On top of that, throw out the RNG Klepto item system, increase its gold generation from 5g to 7-10g depending on level (7@1, 8@6, 9@11, 10@16) to compensate, and throw direct controls onto the biggest abusers of the mastery. Ezreal Q-Still applies all on hit effects EXCEPT Klepto. (Along the lines of how Shyvana dragon form Q cannot proc Tiamat or hyrda items) Gangplank Q mana cost increased from 40 to 90. Killing a minion, monster, or barrel with Q refunds 55 mana (35 net mana spent). Killing a large or epic monster or a champion with Q fully refunds mana cost and readies Trial by Fire. (GP can no longer go to lane and spam Q at you ala Pantheon with scaling)

NOW THAT THAT GARBAGE IS OUT OF THE WAY, on to the rest of the patch.

Brand - Passive buff from last patch was too much, he went up 10% in terms of win rate, now they are reducing his effectiveness in the jungle. What??? Passive % should be reduced, if you want to buff Brand make it so that he does better when pulling off a good combo, not just upping his damage when he fishes with Q,W or walks up and Es you.

Evelynn Bugfix

Ezreal Q damage early nerfed. About time. But he wouldn't be as strong if he wasn't abusing the hell out of kelpto and sitting in lane because he magically gets health and mana potions for the first 10 minutes of the game.

Jinx After watching Star Wars, Riot has determined that it is time for "The Return of the Hypercarry." All of Q power is loaded back into Q rank instead of champ levels, and once Jinx gets a kill her AS cap unlocks. Stronger laning, will take towers faster than ever, and the ultimate team fight clean up. Riot, pls look into bringing other ADCs into line with how jinx is atm, not buffing her to compete at their levels.

Khazix Passive ratio nerf. Q buff. They are moving power from Passive to Q, as Kha players will now have more control over their burst. Their unholy burst. 60% CDR on evolved Q when isolated, you will never 1v1 kha.

Nunu Riot again trying to make nunu "happen." Stop trying to make Nunu happen Riot, its not going to happen. Now gets on-hit damage from Q stacks, W can give AP champs more AP. Nunu will still not have a place in any meta unless he is overtuned, he is an outdated champ in need of a rework.

Ornn Nerfs. Finally. R CD nerf was needed, but getting rid of his W unstoppable?? His little bit of skill expression?? Why not reduce his damage on W, reduce the brittle debuff time, increase W mana cost, increase W CD, not make brittle work on Airborne CC duration (because tenacity doesnt)... like any other nerf besides taking away something that allowed good players from distinguishing themselves from 1st time Orrns...

Sona Tiny Q mana buff. Meh

Vayne Ult AD nerfs. Finally. But Riot, you need to address what niche Vayne is supposed to fill. Is she a tankbuster with AS and silver bolts?? Or is she an assassin who pops squishies with Q-IE crits. How is this "late-game" ADC with a "trash laning phase" going top or bot and winning games in 20 minutes?? She has the highest win rate of all ADCs, and her win rate only goes up as the game goes longer, but is still 51% in 0-20 minute games.

Rune changes:

Triumph nerf - Yes, but the gold isnt needed, it makes the rune ubiquitous. Coup de Grace nerf - Good, but the bonus AD/AP should scale with levels. Last Stand nerf - Good, game doesn't need as much damage. Glacial Augment buff - It is niche, hopefully this doesnt break it. Don't get why you are buffing this and not Phase rush, which is garbage. Manaflow band - Balance shifted so it doesn't allow you to dump a big spell when it is up. Grasp just got 10% better for ranged champs, but idk who is taking grasp on a ranged champ when PtA exists... Aftershock - Rebalancing - Early damage reduced, but early tankiness WAY up. More of a defensive than an all in rune now, which is good. Guardian - Buff - Shield CD longer, but shields will now be larger, making better used shields stronger than repetitive average shields.

Runic Echos got a damage buff.

TLDR - Riot is taking the easy way out when it comes to support items and is gimping the "staple" support itemization because of laner abuse. Certain runes remain too strong on certain champs (klepto abusers), Jinx will be one of the strongest and most played ADCs in 8.2, Riot is nerfing Orrn but in the wrong way, Nunu will see buffs but remain unplayed just like Skarner did, Vayne got nerfs. Zoe will remain highly pick banned for another patch with no reasoning behind that at all. 8.2 will be a large patch, yet the only large thing about it so far is how large of a stink it will make for support players.

14 Comments

Caretaker Jack3 votes

_"We don't see people use people use Ancient Coin line because Riot has made it unusable for solo laners." _

**Response: What about Nasus?
**

"As for jungle items, Riot has made the excellent choice of limiting you to 1 gold income item, and now jungle items are added to that as well, so you cannot have a jungle item and a gold income item. RIP season 2 meta..."

**Response: If thats true, then this is definitely a big big deal... For Ivern. Like, his pathing is ruined and he will need buffs. **

DeusVult1 votes

If you go coin in lane, you only get the GP10 from the item. The coin drops ONLY happen if an ally kills the minion. Both Relic shield and Spellthiefs have GP10, and Spell thiefs let you get gold procs from spells.

Coin start only gives 5% CDR and GP10 passive, whereas Spellthiefs gives 10 AP, 25% mana regen, GP10 and extra damage on spell procs. There is 0 reason to start coin over spellthiefs as a solo laner unless you plan on going all the way to ToA for engages. Even then, item 3800 is better for Nasus and is only slightly more expensive

FraCro1 votes

Ezreal wont proc klepto? where da'hell u found that ? he always gonna abuse on-hit effects,they cant remove that from Ezreal ,if they do that,then they can just delete Ezreal from game. [sg-lux-2] [sg-soraka] They just nerf hes Q dmg that he didn't hurt so much early game thats all....

Tornao2 votes

Gp thing is no, 90 mana cost on q is very high. You can't poke laners with it. You could only do that with barrels , and they early have veeery long cd, it's shifting his playstyle completely. Imo the only way out of it would be by maxing e. It is not the way out of klepto problem, we should change klepto not champs that use it. And changing mana cost on q is not the good way. It would also kill grasp gp. Change klepto because it is unhealthy rune overall, and balance gp around grasp, cause there aren't any other good runes for him not involving poking.

DeusVult2 votes

GP is meant to be a late game scaling MELEE AD threat

That is why he gets crit scaling on Q and barrels, and barrels ignore 40% of the targets armor. Q kills give him extra gold. He can proc this multiple times with barrels. His ult is global, so that he can influence lanes without having to leave. He has a base skill that heals him and removes CC.

Everything about GP is about having a safe lane as a melee champ, getting more gold than his opponent, and getting to his major items as quickly as possible. Yet atm he just takes klepto and throws Q at you every time it comes off CD, gets gold and items from that, pokes you out of lane, AND STILL SCALES INTO LATE GAME.

That style of GP follows the same style of game play as pantheon. Both are similar skills, GP: 625 range, 40 mana, 120+100%AD, 5 sec CD. Panth: 600 range, 235+140% bonus AD, 4 sec CD. Panth goes into lethality because of his high base damage, whereas GP goes into Tri/IE because his can proc sheen and crit.

Yes it is meant to change his playstyle, because GP should have to make a choice between using his Q to poke or using his Q to farm and reach his items more quickly. With Klepto and Spellthiefs, he doesn't have to choose, because he pokes you and still gets all the gold he would get from farming with Q.

Tornao1 votes

Nobody takes spellthiefs at gp because it is bad into farm lane and u take klepto into only that, coin is better. That's why I'm telling to change klepto, it is fun, but unhealthy to game and balance him around grasp and then try to change something, cause with those changes gp will be just q farming all the game and being overall shit

And he is as melee as yasuo. If he is starting fight in melee range, then he is doing that wrong

Sirbigam2 votes

Get Nunu out your mouth, you have no idea what the hell your saying, I wish I played against you in rank, I would terrorize you. you sound like a squirrel champ terrified of the OP world of LoL. Nunu Malzahar

Shahamut1 votes

Why cant we go back to "buying" wards?

You could keep the "trinket slot" as a "ward slot" and let people buy wards. The only limiting factor then (which in some ways could be a sort of skill expression) would be you are limited to one "kind" of ward at a time in the slot. Also, remove 'ward on map' limits.

There are tons of options here as well:

Yellow Trinket- 10g lasts 90 seconds max capacity- 2

Perfect for throwing vision over a wall while doing baron or dragon, or warding lane before attempting to make a play. Not a long term vision solution, but cheap and quick.

Green Ward- 30g lasts 180 seconds max capacity- 2

The longer lasting invisible ward.

Blue Trinket- 10g 1 hit point, briefly reveals an area at long range, then grants vision in a small area til destroyed. max capacity- 2

Like the current trinket.

Blue Ward- 50g like blue trinket, but at near global range, is invisible for 30 seconds after drop, then has 1 hit point. Max capacity- 1 You are limited to having only 2 of these wards on the map at one time.

just some preliminary thoughts, you could have a lot more options for wards, like control wards deal damage to trinkets but just disable wards, or something. Gold values to be redefined, the point is cheaper less useful trinkets for quick hits, and longer lasting more powerful 'wards' for a bigger price.

DeusVult3 votes

Riot will never go back to having people buy wards, as they currently have the ward cap. And if people didnt automatically get trinket wards, 60% of league players wouldn't buy them anyways.

Plastic 5 ADC1 votes

Ezreal not proccing klepto anymore?

Pretty much useless on him now then

Der Lindwurm1 votes

By season 10 I think there won't even be wards anymore.

RÂÑSØM1 votes

What does this mean for tracker's knife? No changes?

nationalgamer9771 votes

GUYS THIS PERSON IS LYING NOT EVERYTHING HE SAID IS TRUE PLZ DO NOT BE FOOLED

tomtom23521 votes

Nerf shyvanna and vayne more. Please

More from Gameplay

More by DeusVult