PSA for people who will miss their magic pen runes.

Critmaster Garen·Sep 29, 2017·45 votes·2,779 views

the rest of us will miss our mr runes aswell.

please stop complaining about the lack of flat magic pen when youre already coming out ahead.

9 magic pen marks = 8 flat magic pen.

but were losing 27 magic resist at level 18 from scaling mr glyphs and at the least 12 from flat mr glyphs.

i repeat. the removal of both, flat magic pen runes and mr runes is a net buff to magic damage. not a loss. too many people dont seem to understand that and actually ask for compensation to get even more damage.

65 Comments

invisiblecat1Sep 29, 201717 votes

It is true, but taking the magic resist glyphs was not required on every champion, meanwhile the pen marks(more or less) were, giving you actually some decent early damage against champions with, or without the glyphs

Critmaster GarenSep 29, 20177 votes

{quoted}

It is true, but taking the magic resist glyphs was not required on every champion, meanwhile the pen marks(more or less) were, giving you actually some decent early damage against champions with, or without the glyphs

they were the most common glyphs.

the next common would probably have been ap on a lot of mages and other ap scaling champions, and then cdr on a couple more champions.

everyone except the people who go into resolve will have their offensive runes compensated with the base stats from their pathes. attack speed from precision, ad or ap from domination or sorcery.

on top of that, theyre in the process of increasing base damage on abilities of pretty much all champions by 5 or 10.

so overall you still get the same damage early game youd get from your offensive runes. if anything, we would still need slight compensation for the mr loss.

Best princess EUSep 29, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XzLakX3L,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-29T17:30:30.439+0000)

they were the most common glyphs.

Critmaster GarenSep 29, 20178 votes

{quoted}

No

yes.

not on mages, but practically everyone else takes mr. cdr and ap glyphs are overall much less common than mr.

Best princess EUSep 29, 20172 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/36e3ecf66fda879bc06014ae4abffe5e.png

this guy is one of the best toplaner i know plays almost all toplaners take mr runes in 1/3 of his pages, and 2/3 of his pages have cdr glyphes

and i took him as an example because you main garen a bruiser

most of high elo players do not want mr glyphes because unless enemy team have 3 or 4 magic damage dealer it's beyond trash

Critmaster GarenSep 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

https://i.gyazo.com/36e3ecf66fda879bc06014ae4abffe5e.png

this guy is one of the best toplaner i know plays almost all toplaners take mr runes in 1/3 of his pages, and 2/3 of his pages have cdr glyphes

and i took him as an example because you main garen a bruiser

most of high elo players do not want mr glyphes because unless enemy team have 3 or 4 magic damage dealer it's beyond trash

those are specialized runes for specific champions.

you dont pick cdr runes on every champion. you do it mostly on specific champions like Nasus

i can also see why jayce would want cdr, as a ranged early game champion who mostly works off spellcasts, and falls off as the game progresses he wants as much early game power as possible. his best option is cdr glyphs in that case.

those are the exception, not the rule. cdr is a very common stat on items in the game, and you only pick these runes on specific champions who need cdr as soon as possible.

http://champion.gg/champion/Jayce/Top?league=

statistically even most people in general pick mr runes on jayce. it looks like this for literally most of the champion pool. not just tanks or bruisers.

dont forget that even a lot of ad champions deal mixed damage. item 3087 item 3094 for ad carries and magic damage inbuilt into the kits of ad champs themsleves. so mr glyphs are often beneficial in a lot of ad matchups aswell. especially since those champions dont build additional magic pen. everyone who doesnt absolutely need the cdr early game or wants ap gplyhs instead would just go with mr.

flibitydooSep 30, 20173 votes

okay, now check your toplane example's match history (on op.gg).

now click on the other 9 other players in their game.

huh, they all run flat MR.

Huh, that's literally the case in every game your toplaner has played.

you're claiming "no magic resistance glyphs are not the most common glyph". That's objectively false.

WalkingInACircleSep 29, 201717 votes

I am going to miss my armor runes when dealing with Zed and Talon. Honestly have no idea how to counter their stupid level of burst right now. +3 armor rune? Good God riot.

Bob the ToastrSep 30, 20171 votes

Same. But the main thing I'm going to miss is my 15% CDR from runes when playing Nasus.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20172 votes

+5. Sooo much better right? /s

SteelflameSep 30, 20173 votes

Zed actually will be rather easy to handle.

You still rush Zhonyas, but you get it 600 gold earlier and a stasis proc at 6 minutes, just in time for the first ult, by grabbing the Inspiration tree as your second tree and getting the stopwatch. It also perma-buffs your Zhonyas to have -15% CD, and you can stack that with the CDR overcap rune if you want to bring that to -20%.

LiteUpSketchersSep 30, 20171 votes

I noticed this. Zed it going to be hit really hard in mid lane when anyone can just rush the clock first item and negate pretty much his full combo.

Fuck Zed.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20174 votes

You can buy a lot of MR. We can only buy 30 total flat Mpen.

Critmaster GarenSep 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You can buy a lot of MR. We can only buy 30 total flat Mpen.

this has been said dozens of times. there is not as much flat magic pen as lethality in the game because

A) lethality only gives you a portion of the value in armor pen until it scales up to the full value at lvl 18. flat magic pen gives you the full value immediately.

B) there is more armor on the game than mr. and base armor values are higher than base mr values

holy shit man, get this into your heads. its possible to stack up 300 to 700 armor on certain champions in extreme cases. you cant even reach close to the same mr values.

also, you havent seem to read my initial post at all. youre losing out on 8 flat magic pen with the update, while we lose out on 27 scaling mr. you already come out ahead in this trade and its a net buff for you. asking for more is straight up greedy.

seriously, how much do you think you should get "compensated" for something that actually benefits you?

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20171 votes

I'm well aware on why there isn't as much Flat Mpen, however that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

You can easily stack 300 MR. It requires a lot more investment, but it's easily achievable. Moreso if you're like, Poppy, or something.

People who care about this Mpen loss shouldn't be hitting the people who took scaling MR Runes anyways. Besides, you know some people took Hybrid Penetration Runes, right? Not myself, but they'll be actually in the negatives.

Speaking for myself here, I don't want to lose less than people who took MR blues, I want to gain more than AD's compensation.

AninLegions777Sep 30, 20171 votes

Stack 300 MR? LELELEL. The highest MR an item currently gives is 60 MR and that item is for mages. So for tanks, its 55. There are 2 items like that. Giving 110 MR. Factor in 40 base MR and 12-15 MR for runes. 25 from merc threads. 10 from masteries (value might be lower). You'd have to buy like 2 more items. Which begs the question, how will you deal vs ADCs?

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20171 votes

Abyssal, Adaptive, and Spirit Visage all give +55 MR (165 total). Mercs for +25 (190 total). 53 Base MR for a Melee Champion (243 total), and then an item like Stone Plate, ZZrot, or Maw will put you at or over 300 MR after Runes and Masteries with one item slot left over for an Armor item.

AninLegions777Oct 1, 20171 votes

Good luck tanking the enemy ADC. :)

sobi999Oct 1, 20171 votes

You're forgetting that our MP items are not very cost efficient for slot. The MP on item 3020 boots prevents you from selling this late game and replacing it with ludens or for any other item.

MP on item 3151 works best on DOT mages and so many mages do not buy this because of their lack of synergy with this item. This forces them to buy item 3285 , which is pretty darn garbage for its price.

There is more Armour because AD champs especially ADC's do sustain DPS while mages rely on Burst and then become useless for a long time. Anyone who has sufficient MR to resist that burst even with 10% of health will be able to burst that mage or sustain DPS him to death.

This is also why i get at least 12-13+ MP on runes for some mages so that i am doing close to true damage to squishes after i get sorcerer boots. Now compare this with the 3 lethality items and their synergy with each other and cost efficiency per slot. Also, I personally get MP to burst squishes who will most definitely not get MR glyphs/runes.

LauchmelderSep 29, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XzLakX3L,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-29T17:22:37.868+0000) i repeat. the removal of both, flat magic pen runes and mr runes is a net buff to magic damage. not a loss. too many people dont seem to understand that and actually ask for compensation to get even more damage.

I'm just gonna point out 2 things:

1.) MR runes mainly help out tanks in a lane vs champions like Rumble. They do get picked in other roles as well, but it's the most common rune on tanks. Mages aren't allowed to eat throughl tanks to begin with (unless you're Brand or Azir).

2.) Hell yes I want more damage. I want double the AP I can get now at the cost of having no CDR at all. Screw Riots idea of 'we want mages to feel relevant when missing a skillshot'. If I miss a skillshot I want to feel it. If I hit it I want to be rewarded with acceptable damage.

TEA Nietzsche Sep 29, 20172 votes

The point that I especially love is how people act like it's completely normal that AD assassins do not take lethality in their runes.

Yes, flat arpen runes got nerfed to death with the lethality update.. So the fact that we already lost what you are about to lose is.. Unfair for you?!

Complain some more and you get the lethality equivalent for AP, a completely useless mpen item and nerfs across the board for all mpen items (aka you get movespeed instead of actual stats). Just like we did. And then we circlejerk about you AP champions getting another item completely ignoring how useless it is.

KhristophorosSep 29, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=TEA RANT,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XzLakX3L,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-09-29T22:10:34.697+0000)

The point that I especially love is how people act like it's completely normal that AD assassins do not take lethality in their runes.

Yes, flat arpen runes got nerfed to death with the lethality update.. So the fact that we already lost what you are about to lose is.. Unfair for you?!

Complain some more and you get the lethality equivalent for AP, a completely useless mpen item and nerfs across the board for all mpen items (aka you get movespeed instead of actual stats). Just like we did. And then we circlejerk about you AP champions getting another item completely ignoring how useless it is.

You got Duskblade which more than makes up for whatever was lost from the runes in its massive raw damage. Even without the runes AD assassins will be better off than before the lethality update simply because Duskblade exists.

But you know what? You get to keep your lethality anyway. They're updating some of the runes to give lethality. Keep yourself up to date on the PBE versions of the runes.

TEA Nietzsche Sep 29, 20172 votes

No it does not. At all.

You forget that the old Maw had flat arpen - but now we can't even build Maw because it gives CDR forcing most AD assassins/skirmishers to overcap CDR with BC/GB/Maw. That means that the opportunity cost for Maw increased a lot (nerf) as we lose the strongest arpen item (Ghostblade, despite all the nerfs). Instead of going Hex->GB->BC->(Maw) we now go hex->BC->(maw)->Duskblade which is just terrible so we tend to just not build Hexdrinker in the first place - which is obviously not good.

Give me old Maw back and I give you Duskblade+EoN+lethality runes. That is a TREMENDOUS deal for AD casters.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20171 votes

Maw is intended for bruisers/juggernauts not assassins and Lethality is not a bruiser/juggernaut item.

TEA Nietzsche Sep 30, 20171 votes

Maw of Malmortius helps attack damage-based champions against enemy teams with high amounts of magic damage.

You just made something up to fit your agenda, that's about it. Maw was an item that was commonly used by AD casters and it's changes made it worse for AD casters. Your abstract talk about how things are supposed to be (in your opinion btw, there is no proof that it's intended to be a Juggernaut item, it wasn't even released in the Juggernaut patch) does not change the facts. The facts that you obviously do not care to adress.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20171 votes

Like Youmuu’s Ghostblade, Maw of Malmortius is also a grab bag of damage stats; in designer talk, it isn’t really stat bound to class. Unlike Youmuu’s, Maw is warping what it means to be an assassin: assassins are bursty, while Maw supports an extended damage pattern. This wasn’t a problem while Maw of Malmortius was the only available defensive item for both classes, but with Edge of Night taking over as the go-to defensive item for assassins, we feel comfortable moving Maw into fighter territory. We’re cutting the Armor Penetration to make this a less attractive buy for assassins. If they’re opting into Maw for the shield, they will be paying a cost: weaker burst.

Patch 6.22

Never an efficient combination of stats, Maw's updated inclusion of Dirk's armor penetration and the new Lifegrip passive work together with Lifeline's shield to create the feeling of just staving off death, flying into a berserker rage when the heat is on. That sounds a lot better for fighters than the previous 'get a lot of damage when you're almost dead and then die', so we went with it.

Patch 5.22

They've been pushing Maw as a Fighter item for a long time. They didn't mind Assassins picking up the item, and eventually it just turned out to be too good for Assassins because who would've guessed that very strong anti-AP stats and passives with strong offensive stats with flat Armor pen would be really good for mid lane Assassins?

They even specifically state fighters in both patch notes for the item, and specifically moving the item back into fighter territory in 6.22.

TEA Nietzsche Oct 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Patch 6.22

They've been pushing Maw as a Fighter item for a long time. They didn't mind Assassins picking up the item, and eventually it just turned out to be too good for Assassins because who would've guessed that very strong anti-AP stats and passives with strong offensive stats with flat Armor pen would be really good for mid lane Assassins?

Yes so it was meant to be an assassin item until they released EoN. But EoN is shit now so the consequence is that assassins are worse off now which is exactly my point and I don't see why you would disagree after reading it.

They decided that it's fine to move Maw away from assassins because of EoN but them destroying EoN obviously means that assassins are worse off - worse off than planned because Riot calculated with EoN being relevant which it clearly is not anymore.

The point we discussed was whether assassins/AD casters are worse off after all these changes or not - and they clearly are not.

NineTailedMysticOct 1, 20171 votes

Yes so it was meant to be an assassin item until they released EoN. But EoN is shit now so the consequence is that assassins are worse off now which is exactly my point and I don't see why you would disagree after reading it.

Not quite. I interpreted the 6.22 notes as it being a problem as a general "Anti-AP" AD item. It was accessible to every AD in different ways. It let Assassins dive APs with impunity, it allowed Fighters to utilize the MR better than other ADs due to higher health pools and tankier itemization, and it gave ADCs the ability to survive AP burst only to turn on them with Lifegrip's AS boost and Lifesteal. In fact, Maw lost its AS on Lifegrip in 6.7 for Stealing the show in 2016

So, in patch 6.22, they decided to give Assassins an item designed for and balanced around them, while discouraging another item from them due to having to balance it around 3-4 classes.

TL;DR It was not specifically an Assassin item, it was an overall AD item.

The point we discussed was whether assassins/AD casters are worse off after all these changes or not - and they clearly are not.

My point was that Maw was not an Assassin item, and should not be treated as such nor are Assassins deserving of compensation due to having it discouraged from them.

You point was that Assassins are worse after the Assassin Update, while true, completely necessary. Assassins prior had major issues with game health, and were (and still are imo), design failures.

TEA Nietzsche Oct 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not quite. I interpreted the 6.22 notes as it being a problem as a general "Anti-AP" AD item. It was accessible to every AD in different ways. It let Assassins dive APs with impunity, it allowed Fighters to utilize the MR better than other ADs due to higher health pools and tankier itemization, and it gave ADCs the ability to survive AP burst only to turn on them with Lifegrip's AS boost and Lifesteal. In fact, Maw lost its AS on Lifegrip in 6.7 for Stealing the show in 2016

So, in patch 6.22, they decided to give Assassins an item designed for and balanced around them, while discouraging another item from them due to having to balance it around 3-4 classes.

TL;DR It was not specifically an Assassin item, it was an overall AD item.

They simply wrote that it was more befitting for fighters thematically, not that it was problematic in the hands of assassins.

"This wasn’t a problem while Maw of Malmortius was the only available defensive item for both classes, but with Edge of Night taking over as the go-to defensive item for assassins, we feel comfortable moving Maw into fighter territory. "

They quite literally wrote that Maw was fine until EoN became a core item. Which implies that now that EoN is essentially removed assassins could get Maw back without a problem - but of course Riot will not do it as they probably take another year to either rework or remove EoN.

You point was that Assassins are worse after the Assassin Update, while true, completely necessary. Assassins prior had major issues with game health, and were (and still are imo), design failures.

Riot literally said that Maw was not a problem (b4 EoN) so that is your very own opinion that only barely relates to the topic. I never said that we need Maw back but I simply pointed out that AD casters are now worse off due to all these different changes - which is the opposite of the common opinion here which is that all these changes favoured AD casters in total.

Critmaster GarenSep 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You got Duskblade which more than makes up for whatever was lost from the runes in its massive raw damage. Even without the runes AD assassins will be better off than before the lethality update simply because Duskblade exists.

But you know what? You get to keep your lethality anyway. They're updating some of the runes to give lethality. Keep yourself up to date on the PBE versions of the runes.

i dont think lethality is comparable to magic pen for three reasons.

lethality scales with game time, and is not really an early game stat.

armor values in the game, including base armor and armor/lvl scalings are generally higher than mr values.

also, void staff still penetrates total magic resist, which also cuts into base mr and not just bonus mr, while last whisper as the % pen option for assassins only cuts into bonus armor. (cleaver is an option, but the armor shred needs time to ramp up while assassins need frontloaded pen to work with their burst.)

there will be an overall base armor buff to champions.

im just saying it would be kindof unfair to overcompensate ap champions for the loss of flat magic pen without handing out a sweep of mr/lvl buffs to champions in addition to the armor buff aswell.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20171 votes

Meanwhile you have Black Cleaver to hit total Armor for everyone on your team, Last Whisper to give you 50% bonus Armor pen and upgrades to either give you perma-GWs or up to 20% bonus physical damage on targets who have more HP than you, and up to 54 Lethality in items, and all those Armor Pen sources stack in order the most favorable way possible.

Critmaster GarenSep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile you have Black Cleaver to hit total Armor for everyone on your team, Last Whisper to give you 50% bonus Armor pen and upgrades to either give you perma-GWs or up to 20% bonus physical damage on targets who have more HP than you, and up to 54 Lethality in items, and all those Armor Pen sources stack in order the most favorable way possible.

void staffs penetration is more beneficial than either cleaver or last whisper, since its total magic pen frontloaded. at least when you compare mages to ad assassins.

grievous wounds is on one of the mage core items aswell.

and magic pen stacks exactly the same as armor pen.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20172 votes

Void Staff is better when you compare it to Cleaver or Last Whisper as single items, but not when MPen items and Armor Pen items are all put together. Armor Pen Stacking is just significantly stronger than Mpen stacking. For good reason, but Armor should still matter against an AD opponent and it simply doesn't if they have so much Penetration. If you ask me, they should rename all Armor Pen options "Unique Passive - Lethality" so they have to pick between %Reduction (good vs squishies and tanks but not as good against either than %bonus pen or flat Lethality), %Bonus Pen (good vs tanks, useless vs squshies), and Flat Armor Pen, and then find some other way to control an Assassin's snowball.

Morello's Grievous Wound only activate on target's 35% HP or less, while LDR's activate on dealing any physical damage to the target. Either Mages can't get the target's HP to 35% or less in the first place (vs tanky targets like Swain, Vlad, Warwick etc), or it doesn't matter because a Mage will have already killed them (Fiddle, Lifestealers, etc)

Magic Pen stacks the same way, but it doesn't matter because Armor Penetration items add a layer that Magic Penetration items don't. And that is the reduction layer, since old Abyssal Scepter was the only item to reduce MR at all. So a champion gets their Armor reduced by 24% from Black Cleaver, then their assailant ignores 50% of their bonus Armor, and then ignores up to 54 of their remaining Armor. I'm not willing to do the math since I'm unsure of how the reduction interacts with bonus/base armor values, but a target with 150 Armor will probably be sub-30 Armor after all that. Meanwhile, a target with 150 MR would be at roughly 67 MR after Void Staff + Sorc's/Liandry's. I did that math because its a lot easier.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20172 votes

Maybe because ADs have actually good itemization and a ton of Armor Pen sources comparatively.

TEA Nietzsche Sep 30, 20171 votes

Oh yeah let me talk about our "ton" of armor pen sources: item 3814 - Trash item 3147 - good, but old Maw was better as I have explained already item 3142 - good but worse than before item 3035 (both variants) - trash compared to old Last Whisper when it comes to AD casters, ADC's love them though. Old last whisper was like Void Staff, everyone would get it early, it was stupidly efficient and it dealt damage to tanks and squieshies alike. :( item 3071 - it used to be THE assassin item next to Ghostblade and Bloodthirster. But Bloodthirster was made into an ADC item, Ghostblade was nerfed (see above) and Black Cleaver which was a clear and undebated assassin/skirmisher item in the beginning lost AD several times while gaining HP. Oh and it also got flat nerfed due to ADC's abusing it.

tl;dr: penetration got nerfed for every non-ADC AD champion.

NineTailedMysticSep 30, 20171 votes

Maybe because ADs have actually good itemization and a ton of Armor Pen sources "comparatively".

Also old LW was ridiculous, don't even try to pretend that shit was healthy.

TEA Nietzsche Oct 1, 20171 votes

I already implied that it was too strong when I compared it to Voidstaff. I take it you agree with the rest?

NineTailedMysticOct 1, 20171 votes

I think EoN is ok. I'd be leery to buff it in any way other than maybe cost. More HP would make it too tanky for an Assassin item, more AD would give it too much raw power, adding CDR would make it a catch all item, and the active will always either overbearing (lasts too long, not enough downtime) or useless (channel is too long, duration is too short). Definitely not an "every game core item" though.

Duskblade is good (passive damage is still too strong imo), but of course it doesn't compare to Maw. Maw made you immune to AP while still being able to burst them. No actual Assassin item could compare to that.

I think Youmuu's is in a fine spot. Yes, worse than before, but it gave a bit of everything at too little cost before. (AD, CDR, ArPen, and MS/AS on active).

I honestly don't remember what old Pre-Juggernaut Cleaver was like tbh. I never saw it.

TEA Nietzsche Oct 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think EoN is ok. I'd be leery to buff it in any way other than maybe cost. More HP would make it too tanky for an Assassin item, more AD would give it too much raw power, adding CDR would make it a catch all item, and the active will always either overbearing (lasts too long, not enough downtime) or useless (channel is too long, duration is too short). Definitely not an "every game core item" though.

Nobody buys it because it's so bad. It's objectively a terrible item because it's buyrate is insanely low. If the game wouldn't change at all with the removal of the item then that means that it's worthless. It NEEDS work. You may argue that straight buffs are unhealthy - fine. Then rework it and release a healthier item. Or remove it, I don't care. But don't argue that it helps AD champions in any kind of way and don't include it in AD/AP itemization arguments. It's utter trash.

Duskblade is good (passive damage is still too strong imo), but of course it doesn't compare to Maw. Maw made you immune to AP while still being able to burst them. No actual Assassin item could compare to that. I think Youmuu's is in a fine spot. Yes, worse than before, but it gave a bit of everything at too little cost before. (AD, CDR, ArPen, and MS/AS on active). I honestly don't remember what old Pre-Juggernaut Cleaver was like tbh. I never saw it.

Alright, it's pretty pointless to argue about whether AD casters are too strong or weak right now due to our different biases. But I'm glad that you agree that the changes hurt AD casters.

sobi999Oct 1, 20172 votes

But i personally get MP to burst squishes who will most definitely not get MR glyphs/runes. Its actually going to hit mages hard unless AD are in the same position.

bbQsauçeSep 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

PPPPPPPPPPPP270Sep 29, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XzLakX3L,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-29T17:47:48.508+0000)

What about lethality? I run lethality reds and quints (24 lethality)

Armor yellows are almost ubiquitous like MR runes but even more so. The enemy will have less armor for sure.

KhristophorosSep 29, 20177 votes

We are losing armor runes.
The Sudden Impact mastery was changed from 5% damage to lethality and magic pen and almost every lethality stacker has mobility so they can use it.

Sudden Impact Using a dash, leap, blink, or teleport grants you 12 Lethality and 8 Magic Penetration for the next 3s.

So I think you'll be fine.

LegenDariusGarenSep 30, 20172 votes

I run 24 lethality on Garen and have no way to proc sudden impact from my kit.

koshkyraOct 1, 20171 votes

item 3152

Velzard of KozSep 30, 20171 votes

~~But they changed sudden impact to work on leaving stealth. I though it replaced the movement part.~~

Oh wait they just added it to list.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We are losing armor runes.

The Sudden Impact mastery was changed from 5% damage to lethality and magic pen and almost every lethality stacker has mobility so they can use it.

Sudden Impact Using a dash, leap, blink, or teleport grants you 12 Lethality and 8 Magic Penetration for the next 3s.

So I think you'll be fine.

I'm actually wondering if the effects apply on landing or on cast of the mobility spell. Coz, I use my Malphite R to nuke people, and it would be kinda pointless if the pen didn't apply to it.

KhristophorosOct 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yi Shenpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XzLakX3L,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2017-10-01T10:58:52.603+0000)

I'm actually wondering if the effects apply on landing or on cast of the mobility spell. Coz, I use my Malphite R to nuke people, and it would be kinda pointless if the pen didn't apply to it.

My intuition and experience about LoL game mechanics tells me that it will probably proc when the dash begins so it'll already be active by the time you land and deal damage.

It would be really unfortunate for many champions if the bonus triggered after the dash skill finished all of its effects. Think of how many champions would miss out on the benefits of this rune.

My PBE account is disabled and I can't get it enabled so I can't confirm this unfortunately.