Fizz doesn't even need to build AP wtf?

Darth West·May 15, 2017·43 votes·2,475 views

All he needs to build is

And he 2-3 shots my carries, while being an annoyance to kill.

Why is this even allowed? He was doing more damage then me although I was a original AD scaling champion.

This isn't even Fizz's main issue but dear lord is it horrible to play against, his E is like Xayah's ultimate on a small cooldown. His E is unhealthy why are we keeping it? So much for "Making the game healthier" Riot. Fizz had this in his Kit for years and you never changed it.

99 Comments

RalanrMay 15, 201717 votes

And people wonder why I think triforce is a problem item.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 15, 20171 votes

But what would you suggest for champs who are 100% reliant on TF? Like irelia, GP, heca? Without they barely function and other champs can abuse it even better without necessarily needing it

RalanrMay 15, 20177 votes

Hecarim imo is a problem user (Irelia as well because both go triforce then full tank). I don't think triforce should allow such builds to be viable honestly.

DivewingMay 15, 20171 votes

you mean to say an undodgeable auto-attack that increases in damage ludicrously easily on a borderline-full tank that chunks squishies for 75% of their HP is broken?

Golden Tager XMay 16, 20171 votes

its almost as if no cdr crit ap triforce didn't have these issues or something. almost like slapping cdr on this has created it to scale better on people like fizz who have ways of proccing it on moderate cds.

Yeah, must be coincidental right?

The WhamboozlerMay 16, 20172 votes

Triforce isn't the problem. Fizz's freaking E is the problem. It is 99.8% of the reason why he's the most obnoxious thing on the planet and it's the reason he's broken any time he's broken. Untargetablity + Burst damage + AoE damage + mobility + low cooldown. Gee... how could THAT be broken. Must be the item. Let's nerf the item.

No. Cripple Fizz's E so he can't dive-bomb you under tower and flip out without taking a single tower shot and he'll be fine. Make the little bastard COMMIT if he goes in. And for that record... change his fucking passive. He's obnoxious enough without what is essentially DR.

LimrickMay 16, 20171 votes

Triforce is an incredibly easy to abuse item. It isn't the only problem, but it allows Fizz and many other champs to get away with more than they should.

The WhamboozlerMay 17, 20171 votes

I assure you... Fizz with his E as is and no Triforce is by FAR superior to a Fizz with Triforce but no E.

JoxcabMay 15, 201712 votes

This is the reason there's nerfs on PBE lmao. Do people not check before they post?

Fizz's E is perfectly balanced. What are you on about?

Darth WestMay 15, 201719 votes

Fizz's E is perfectly balanced. What are you on about?

I had to double check to see if it was April Fools. You can't be serious

JoxcabMay 15, 20173 votes

If you think it's broken, sorry, but you're just bad. Nothing else to tell you. That's just fact. Learn to play around cooldowns.

Sp33d Zer0May 15, 20175 votes

Gbay99 actually did a very well put together video on why Fizz top is currently too strong with actual in game evidence to back it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wws4zLQk7Y

PennsMay 15, 20176 votes

You mean evidence like "Renekton stuns you for 1.5 seconds but thats time you can fight back anyway because idk"? lel

Sp33d Zer0May 15, 20172 votes

I did not mean for it sound like the video was perfect, just that it does a good job of highlighting the reason that "tank" fizz top is incredibly strong.

PennsMay 15, 20175 votes

I dont think so tbh, "his abilities are better than everyone elses"... well his E has been the same for a long time, same goes for his Q and ult basically.

Yet he wasnt always "the best" top laner. He is just forced into it now because of the W rework and Riot wanting to add counterplay to something that already had enough (which they stated themselves). And because he got so many counter options, delays and shit they made his base damages high af... as if it wasnt obvious what was gonna happen lol.

Sire HippingtonMay 15, 20175 votes

you mean besides him ignoreing the fact that renekton stuns for 1.5sec with his combo, so you have actually less effective time to fight back vs his combo than vs fizz, or that renekton is manaless while fizz does blow alot mana when going for the full combo, or ignoreing that renekton has lots of waveclear while fizz has non(top fizz will not max E, and even if he does, it's not that great for waveclear without ap) Or that unlike fizz, renekton has sustain and more base tankiness...

The main issues with fizz is that his lvl 1 is pretty absurd, haveing both sustained dps from the dot and burst for shortish trades from the W for low mana, and mostly that he's just really save, to a point where he often goes ignite instead of flash which gives him the edge in close matchups 1v1. Yet his overall not as high damage/tankiness puts him somehwat into place. He's not nearly as broken as people make him out to be(though certainly strong), but he certainly is furstraiting to play against, mostly because he's really hard to shut down if he starts snowballing.

Blackstone01May 15, 20179 votes

What cooldown.

Warlord ScrapMay 15, 20176 votes

Id hardly call wats on the pbe a nerf. More a focusing.

JoxcabMay 15, 20176 votes

It's shifting away tank Fizz's power. And giving AP Fizz compensation because he didn't need nerfs.

Warlord ScrapMay 15, 20175 votes

Thus its a focusing and not a pure nerf. Full ap fizz will get a late game buff actually.

JoxcabMay 15, 20176 votes

It breaks even at 375 AP. He's not going to get that much until pretty much last items or a Rabadon's.

Warlord ScrapMay 15, 20174 votes

Put you also gotta consider his aa's and charged w's are getting compensated so its closer to 250 for full ap fizz to do the same damage plus the banshee's rework was a buff.

JoxcabMay 15, 20175 votes

Um no. The nerf is to uncharged AA. So no, it takes 375 to break even.

Banshee's was a nerf to him. It's harder for him to pop it than it is for mages to pop his lmao.

Warlord ScrapMay 15, 20175 votes

You misunderstand the difference between a powershift and a nerf. The 'nerf' on pbe is a power shift not a nerf. It will nerf tank fizz but buff ap fizz.

JoxcabMay 15, 20174 votes

You realize it nerfs AP Fizz until he gets 375 AP right?

Warlord ScrapMay 15, 20174 votes

You realize it doesnt because his auto get stronger and his charged w is stronger right.

JoxcabMay 15, 20174 votes

That is literally how it doesn't work. The nerfs are to the regular W. Not the empowered W. The regular W.

That means the nerfs to the empowered W are THREE TIMES the amount the damage was nerfed to the regular, as the empowered triples the damage.

That is a huge amount of damage that got cut off.

He does not gain the damage back he lost from the bases till he gains over 375 AP.

Please just do the math instead of spewing bullshit.

Warlord ScrapMay 15, 20173 votes

I did the math on all five levels wih reasonable full ap builds and im telling you the numbers are irrelevant. Its a power shift for ap fizz that will make tank fizz less viable.

Read the rumble part this is an example of a future rumble power shift https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3T6FmAWY-quick-gameplay-thoughts-may-2 Patch 7.7 increased the cooldown of his e from 5 to 6 seconds with no other changes this is a nerf

JoxcabMay 15, 20172 votes

If you did the math correctly you wouldn't be saying bullshit like that. Try again.

ThebiggestpandaMay 17, 20172 votes

Fallen you have to learn how to do math a little better. Joxcab is correct here. Overall it is a nerf to AP fizz's damage until he has over 375 AP. At that point he will do more damage than previously.

Blackstone01May 15, 20173 votes

Isn't that how the cycle constantly goes? AP fizz blows people up due to high ratios -> ratio nerfed base damage buffed -> tank fizz due to high base values, damage amp, and high mobility -> base values nerfed ratios buffed.

JoxcabMay 15, 20171 votes

It'd work if Riot would just stop nerfing him for no reason for blowing people up as AP Fizz.

Blackstone01May 15, 20173 votes

So the problem is riot doing something when fizz is being a problem...?

ChønklordMay 15, 20173 votes

I mean, might as well remove all assassins from the game then...?

The WhamboozlerMay 16, 20172 votes

Did you see the assassin rework? They were trying to.

DurzakaMay 15, 20176 votes

Fizz built 2 incredibly powerful damage dealing items, and you are surprised that he can one shot your squishies?

Darth WestMay 15, 201719 votes

{quoted}

Fizz built 2 incredibly powerful damage dealing items, and you are surprised that he can one shot your squishies?

A champion who is supposed to be an AP carry building AD items and 1-3 shotting my carries, while burning my tanks HP away, while doing more damage then a original AD scaling champion.

You don't see anything wrong with this?

UnboundHadesMay 15, 20174 votes

if your carries aren't smart enough to dodge a fizz ult or his e they deserve to die and wtf are you doing letting an ad fizz on to your backline

Sp33d Zer0May 15, 201716 votes

I mean..... most AD's aren't mobile, and Fizz has two dashes, one that makes him invulnerable to peel.

That's like saying "Well just peel the Olaf".

crippler38May 15, 20175 votes

Whenever someone says something like that I think something along the lines of 'just kite the' MasterYi Udyr DrMundo I mean you can kinda do it but there are limits dammit!