Twitch's stealth vs human reaction time

Taliyah Rocks·Oct 23, 2017·154 votes·5,497 views

Human reaction time is around 0.25 sec, i happen to be a tad slow at 0.3, some people are slower, some are faster.

Late game Twitch can get close to, or even hit the 2.5 attack per second limit, which means he fires every 0.4 seconds.

If he fire his first attack from stealth at t=0.0, his second at t=0.4, and his third at t=0.8....

Factoring the average human reaction time and server ping, you have at MOST 0.5 seconds to react and do anything if he can kill you in three attacks, or at worst 0.1 seconds if he crits twice and kills you in two attacks.

Considering he will probably start attacking you from outside your threat zone, and that most projectiles have a delay, and that most CC spells are telegraphed, it means that unless you are tanky......

.... drumrolls

Lategame has no counterplay.

130 Comments

YoungFarmerOct 24, 201758 votes

For the argument of buying item 2055 in order to see him late game. Still no room for it at 6 slot. Either nerf twitch or gives us back that juicy pink ward trinket upgrade plz.

SwollwonderOct 24, 201722 votes

Oh man i forgot about the pink ward upgrade...that would make me so happy...

BALDG1VEN BOOMEROct 23, 201724 votes

Riot thinks everyone here is trying to be the next Faker.

Rand0mH3r0XOct 24, 20172 votes

Patch 8.0 Removed armor runes

MelledoneusOct 24, 20179 votes

I thought you made a good joke when I saw the double digit number on yoir upvote score, then I read the comment.

And then I noticed the minus before the number.

Needless to say I wrote this comment after and I feel I accomplished nothing here.

It Hertz When IPOct 24, 20179 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/240/075/90f.png

xJLx MCHammerOct 24, 201716 votes

It’s funny how some people complained about Syndra deleting a champion with a full combo but an ADC killing another squishy in two hits (if he crits) is okay

Adc2k17 lol

Brownie ElfieOct 24, 201717 votes

Nobody thinks twitch is okay rn

TeCoolMageOct 24, 20177 votes

In fact when someone says Syndra ult is ridiculous everyone downvotes and complains about twitch

LordGeovanniOct 26, 20171 votes

pretty sure riot does and many adc mains too.

ninjaroxasOct 24, 20173 votes

Well syndra''s ult doesn't hit more then 1 target

Sraeg2013Oct 24, 20176 votes

Imagine if Syndra ult could hit everybody in a line, still be a targetted ability and Runaan's would shoot additional ults at 2 more targets.

Every 0.4 sec for 5 seconds.

Reyna RivetsOct 25, 20171 votes

Except Twitch's cask and E CAN make it so he can E up to 4-5 targets at once.

Sraeg2013Oct 27, 20172 votes

Utterly not related to my comment.

Are you sure you responded to a correct user?

BârdOct 24, 20179 votes

Reaction time is faster for auditory stimulus (0.17 seconds), and Twitch is hardly quiet when he comes out of stealth (especially if he ults).

Say you have 50 ping, and twitch starts firing at t=0. You should register that Twitch is shooting you at t=0.22 seconds, or t=0.3 seconds if you have the sound off for some reason.

Since, by your own numbers, Twitch will only get his second shot off at t=0.4, the only thing that has "no counterplay" is his very first attack out of stealth.

Generally, a late game Twitch will need about three hits and an E to kill a squishy, meaning a bit less than a second.

So subtract the 0.3 seconds it takes for it to register (worst case), and you have a little more than a half second window to prevent the rat from killing your squishies. That's fast, but not impossibly fast.

summoner 21 summoner 7 summoner 3 item 3190 item 3109 item 3401 item 3040 item 3157 can be used reactively to help deal with him at a moments notice.

summoner 4 can get you out of his reach.

item 3047 item 3026 item 3157 item 3812 item 3072 item 3097 are all perfectly viable items squishies can buy to increase the time it takes for Twitch to kill you.

And that's not even counting the tools all the other champions have.

That is... if you're with allies. If you're not with allies, you have made a huge mistake that warrants a death. Going out alone as a squishy without knowing where Twitch is is just plain stupid.

SkorchOct 24, 20177 votes

But this assumes that Twitch starts at t=0.0. However countplay to twitch is outside of fight, like superior warding... you know that thing everyone says is his counter?

I mean twitch, or at LEAST crit needs a nerf. But like come on...

Romans VI XXIIIOct 24, 201724 votes

fun fact. wards cant see him while he is in stealth. and its not often u are standing NEAR a pinky

ProzzakOct 24, 20174 votes

Fun fact, if you ward in the proper areas you will catch him before he goes invis to head towards you. Not saying he doesn't need a nerf, just saying that warding properly would help a lot but it is not something you can expect to have in solo q.

I actually think the main problem in the game right now is the ability to heal up/limit damage from sources right now. Way too many options to keep your adc alive.

Glory ln DeathOct 24, 201712 votes

So we should ward his tower? I think you don't fully realize how much distance Twitch can cover while stealthed.

wyvern011976Oct 25, 20171 votes

It is a 5 second ult and if he is opening up under his tower.. you are winning. Properly placed control wards SHUT HIM DOWN. 5 on the map means he can not approach the area you chose to fight in. Believe it or not control wards are not meant to be placed and left alone. You move the line of vision control with you as you gain map control. So you need to be accustomed to buying MANY every game.

DurzakaOct 25, 20173 votes

umm what?

Duration of ult is irrelevant. He doesnt start the ult until he is ready. The duration of stealth is MUCH longer, and if he uses his Q under tower, he is losing literally nothing and you cant do anything about it.

wyvern011976Oct 25, 20171 votes

And those control wards are FOREVER.... So wtf are you blathering about. He cant "out Stealth them". Place them and you see him coming...if he stops to shoot them then "presto" he is no longer stealthed. Watch teams literally place them around the lane in the LCS as they move when they play against a twitch. He forces you to play different. Adapt or lose.

Besides if he is stealthed under his own tower you are obviously winning and its pretty easy to tell where he can attack from. If he does go ham....gasp.....you just back away and suddenly his ult is on cd. Not sure what is so hard to understand.

Glory ln DeathOct 25, 20172 votes

Using Q under tower means you cannot have vision of where he started his stealth, which is what the original argument was about, dude ("if you ward in the proper areas you will catch him before he goes invis to head towards you"). It's obviously not about him being pushed under his turret. It's about him starting his stealth out of vision, then moving to where you are in lane.

Also, you need to stop looking at Twitch in a vacuum. Every time you talk about him, it's like you think every Twitch is trying to 1v5 in the jungle. That is never going to be the case. Not everything is late game, teams are not always grouped as 5, and Twitch should never be wandering around solo. He can ambush you during laning phase - including ganks in other lanes - he can catch people out while they're splitpushing or warding (because you can't spot him with control wards unless they're already there), and he has a team to initiate and peel for him in fights.

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

Or again you can learn to HAVE A LINE OF VISION and it does not matter where he goes into stealth at. What part of he has to cross that line are you not getting a concept of. He does not teleport.. he has to come into range and if you ward he is seen. Does not matter where he stealths and if you see him stealth under his tower in front of you....drop a ward. This is not rocket science.

You need to stop looking at him in a vacuum not me. You have 5 people on your team and if between the whole group you cant outplay one champ then uninstall.

Seriously if you are playing twitch and not placing vision wards during laning...or just playing and not placing vision wards period you are asking to lose.

His kit punishes bad positioning, lack of vision control, and just bad players in general. It is strong, but far from oppressive.

Glory ln DeathOct 25, 20175 votes

You... don't know what you're talking about, do you?

wyvern011976Oct 25, 20171 votes

Obviously you don't. Played 4 games against twitch tonight and amazing.... Those control wards kept them from all but one double kill. The rest of the time the got cc locked down because you could see them coming or they traded one for one at best. So learn to place the wards or stop whining about twitch.

Then, maybe your play style will be better than your comments.

Glory ln DeathOct 25, 20171 votes

So, according to you, Twitch should be completely useless in pro play, since they know how to place control wards, right? Oh, wait... He's a top tier pick there. Huh. Go figure.

Control wards only shut Twitch down if the enemy is incompetent and doesn't know how to play. Your control wards won't last 30 seconds if they're placed where they need to be to spot Twitch, and you can't protect them in those positions. How do you propose to protect a control ward in the middle of a lane? Going straight down a lane while stealthed is very common for Twitch. His team can easily take out any obvious control wards, and a ward in the middle of your team won't have the vision range to do anything for you. Plus, you can very easily get pushed off of it.

On top of that, dedicating all 5 of your team's control wards (and, at your elo, you're not going to be having 5 control wards on the map at once, anyways - maybe 1 at a time) to try and spot out Twitch in one quadrant of the map means that you are leaving the rest of the map completely in the enemies' control. And "moving the line of vision" every time you change lanes or switch to an objective is rather expensive. Not only can they clear out the wards, they can just decide to move to another area, pressure another lane or objective, etc, where your team has no vision now.

Your arguments are assuming 2 things - first, that your team is significantly ahead and is able to control the pace of the game and where fights will happen. That is only the case maybe 1/4 of the time, and doesn't influence lane phase at all. Second, that the enemy Twitch is wandering around solo trying to 1v5. Which will never happen unless the Twitch is an idiot. You aren't "intelligently shutting down Twitch through vision control". You're just playing against terrible Twitch players.

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

TLDR

Just read the comments because i said nothing you say... Just get better and he is just like all other ADCs. Buy wards, learn to place them, or lose.
It is not hard concept.

Sorry you are hard stuck in bronze. Probably because you don't use control wards.

Reyna RivetsOct 25, 20171 votes

Wyvern "opening up" means engaging not going into stealth. If Twitch is going into stealth from under one of his towers, that does not mean the enemy team is winning just because he didn't feel like stealthing anywhere up closer.

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

Exactly...if he is opening up (engaging) from under his you are winning. All you have to do is literally back away.

For real learn to read though. Opening up would never mean stealth.... genius.

wyvern011976Oct 25, 20171 votes

I don't think you understand the point of constantly moving your line of vision control. He can not get past a line of control wards period. So it does not matter if he was stealthed forever. The ward makes him visible and if he stops to kill it well.. that's 14 seconds to place another one or kill him while he is out of position before he can even try it again.

Glory ln DeathOct 25, 20172 votes

Because, clearly, Twitch is the only enemy who can clear control wards.

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

Clearly you need to defend them or again lose. Do you win often... because right now I am seeing a pattern. There are a lot of things you need to do to win and defending those wards when playing against him (or really any other time) is one of them. If you lose your line of vision you have to reestablish it at a point you can defend.

TworieOct 24, 20173 votes

Warding doesn't mean anything especially when he can stay invisible for 10 seconds... He can pretty much go anywhere undetected. He can easily slip past any routes that are thoroughly warded and into areas where it's not warded in 10 seconds.

It Hertz When IPOct 24, 20172 votes

I remember when Twitch's Q timer was measured in minutes.... those weren't fun days.

wyvern011976Oct 25, 20171 votes

Or you can place control wards and he is never invisible. Vision control is how you win anyway. Get used to buying and placing MULTIPLE control wards every game or stay in bronze.

TworieOct 25, 20172 votes

I'm plat :/

and nobody has room for those late game

wyvern011976Oct 25, 20171 votes

Guess its a good thing all those pro players do......probably why they aren't hard stuck in silver. Twitch forces your team to play differently. One of those differences is making sure you have a line of vision he cant skirt around. That means at least a support packing a slot worth of control wards and before that every member of the team doing their part to make sure the flanks and lane area are covered with them. It is more costly, but it shuts him down. Without his stealth/ult he is a short ranged low AS marksman that will not carry many fights against a team of equal level and gold.

TworieOct 25, 20172 votes

Notice how you're getting downvoted?

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

Probably because all the bronzies also don't have room in inventory for those game winning items. Like I said you can learn from better players or you can keep losing. Learn to establish vision and defend it or its hard stuck in silver at best for most. Twitch just reinforces that when he is in the game.

TworieOct 26, 20171 votes

I'm plat so I think I know a little more than you do? What are you, bronze?

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

Well VERY obviously you don't.
If you don't understand the concept of vision control and don't carry vision wards.
So, Im really ready to hear the wisdom in not doing so. That should be hilarious to read.
Then watch a Pro match and count the control wards. CONSTANT placement from all roles right up until the end and 90% of the games the support forgoes a 6th item for a control ward stack... if not Baron and elder will never an objective you can hope to control.

Ill wait with baited breath for your rational as to why you should not be creating and defending a line of vision and carting those control wards.

TworieOct 26, 20171 votes

Pro matches don't have anything to do with real league - which like 99% of the player base plays. Nobody has room for control wards late game and ward trinkets have long cooldowns. And the enemy team can just sweep them with Oracles and Duskblade.

Also Twitch can sneak past control wards too if he turns on Oracles since it disables them.

Glory ln DeathOct 25, 20171 votes

Ironic, considering your MMR is bronze.

wyvern011976Oct 26, 20171 votes

Oh those of you who have only one account....

And the its hard stuck in bronze...

This account isn't even ranked...so nice try kid.

Clearly when you cant form an actual argument with facts you try the usual childish tricks. Try improving you game by listening to other better players. If you form that line of vision you wont be destroyed by Twitch. its really that simple.

Glory ln DeathOct 26, 20171 votes

Your account isn't ranked, but your games are played with entirely Bronze and Silver ranked players, with only an occasional low Gold. Meaning you play at a Bronze/Silver MMR.

Clearly when you cant form an actual argument with facts you try the usual childish tricks.

Ironic, considering you're the first one who brought rank into this. Even more ironic since you're calling two Plat players Bronze, while being Bronze MMR, yourself.

Considering your arguments, I sincerely hope you are trolling. Can control wards limit Twitch's power? Yeah, definitely. But they most certainly do not "SHUT HIM DOWN", as you claim. There's a reason Twitch has been at a 53-54% winrate for the last year and a half - which increases the higher elo you are. If control wards shut him down, he would be trash in Plat+, and especially pro play, since that's where people actually buy tons of control wards. But that isn't the case.

Control wards only temporarily limit his pathing while stealthed - but he doesn't have to approach you while stealthed. He is one of the strongest teamfight ADCs in the game, and will annihilate your team if he isn't picked off early. His stealth simply gives him the ability to be an assassin, as well. Control wards help against that, but they aren't the answer to beating him - Twitch isn't like old Akali, where you could just pink ward her shroud and make her useless.

Just tossing out tons of control wards may work against Bronze/Silver Twitch players who think they're supposed to run around solo and jump out at people, but it doesn't work as well against Twitch players who actually know how to play League with their brains.

PePsiLemoNNOct 24, 20173 votes

Like ... literally any crit ADC.

WigglepufftuffOct 24, 201715 votes

You know, except they're not undetectable

Taliyah RocksOct 24, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Like ... literally any crit ADC.

You know how facecheking a bush is bad? If a fed adc was hiding in said bush, you expect to die right?

Well imagine if Twitch had his very own portable bush to sneak upon you and surprise you, because well, that's exactly what he has, the element of surprise at his command. At least with other adcs you can see them coming and keep a safe distance from them.

Reyna RivetsOct 25, 20171 votes

That's why you ask in champ select for everyone to buy control wards if Twitch is locked in by the enemy team. If not, then you can dodge or use oracle and your own ctrl wards when grouped with your team. Honestly, oracle is the best tool for spotting out a Twitch. He gets revealed early and it is HILARIOUS to see him get CCed early and die.