Please for the love of Talos stop putting new players in Silver

Taliyah Rocks·Oct 31, 2017·96 votes·4,062 views

The skill discrepancy has never been so huge in Silver. I'm ready to bet it isn't so bad in Bronze.

Back in my days, EVERYONE was put in Bronze when they started rankeds, even after winning 10/10 placements. If you were a silver player, it meant that you were decent enough at the game, and had enough basic knowledge to pull your weight.

But now, every kid and their grandma gets placed in Silver. You go check their account and they're Silver 4 and they don't even have a character at mastery 4 yet.

I thought rankeds were too stressful and serious for me to bother with them, so i never got above Silver myself, but for god's sake i'm gonna do my best to climb out of this sh*t hole next season if it means i can get experimented players in my team instead of new players.

82 Comments

KuponyaOct 31, 201734 votes

WTF are you talking about, silver has always been the base line, even when ELO was the ranking system. 1200 at the time was about silver 4 to silver 3

notice me Sin piOct 31, 201721 votes

{quoted}

silver has always been the base line, even when ELO was the ranking system.

that's where the problem lies. Even after when riot made leveling to 30 easier, they did not change the base line despite the fact that new comers to ranked are getting less experience than what they wouldve have gotten years ago.

i can assure you im not biased, as im past silver in both solo and flex as well.

AzadetheOct 31, 20176 votes

{quoted}

WTF are you talking about, silver has always been the base line, even when ELO was the ranking system. 1200 at the time was about silver 4 to silver 3

I think he's having a flash reaction to MMR boosters joining in on the fun in high frequency at the end of season rush to get gold for their payers/friends. Atm it's a massacre. About 2 in 3 games has a high elo MMR booster in the form of either a kha zix, a Kalista, an Annie, or a Jarvan just raking in the games with scores like 17/3/8 Averages.

Risk of FateOct 31, 201722 votes

[deleted]

Succubús GFOct 31, 201719 votes

"Oh em gee, I'mma make how to get outta bronze by pubstomping these kiddies" I fucking wheezed

HaIlMonitorOct 31, 20175 votes

well as hardstuck platinum players who think taking their frustration out on people trying to learn make them gods.

Any time in norms someone rages, I just assume they are in plat lol.

Remlap1223Oct 31, 20171 votes

Or silver.

RootloOct 31, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0GKxZWJW,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-31T01:11:03.690+0000)

Ranked needs an overhaul in general. You have legitimately bad players, people who afk, people who troll, and to pile it off bored Diamond+ Players who are like "Oh em gee, I'mma make how to get outta bronze by pubstomping these kiddies" as well as hardstuck platinum players who think taking their frustration out on people trying to learn make them gods. Add boosting accounts and Bronze through silver is just an absolute mess in terms of skill levels across the board.

After having to climb out of Bronze not once, not twice, but FOUR separate times, I can say with some certainty that I have had better games in that division than I have in all my 50 or so silver games (I tried to climb, fell due to reasons mostly of my undoing). Bronze try, Silvers have an ego that is comparable to plats.

Wait till you hit Plat. That is where dreams go do die.

Risk of FateOct 31, 20172 votes

[deleted]

RootloNov 1, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0GKxZWJW,comment-id=000500030000,timestamp=2017-10-31T20:19:12.568+0000)

I'd play Dota 2 before even attempting that.

Oh yeah, Plat makes me want to demote to silver/bronze just cause the people there are legitimately better and the games are easier.

AenaeusOct 31, 20178 votes

The feeling when you go 8/2 in your placements and get placed into gold 4.

JoeMGNov 1, 20171 votes

Or when you go 8/2 and get bronze 3 (:

Ranked is fun.

LańceOct 31, 20178 votes

Most Players are in Silver

DrCyanideOct 31, 20172 votes

Yes, but are most players where they should be? Or were they just placed there?

Sraeg2013Oct 31, 20173 votes

They don't, because of this silly demotion prevention in 5th divisions and ladders in general.

Just look at divisions 1 and 5 in every tier. They are highly overpopulated compared to graduality in other divisions.

https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/54e77fa0-83ea-4b46-b214-2b4602b2e6f8.png

This is for NA, but the same thing can be observed in other regions.

For example Silver 5 would easily have a third of it's population if it wasn't for the fact you need to be as bad as Bronze 5 to get demoted to Bronze 1.

MasterOfMetaIOct 31, 20177 votes

UPVOTE FOR TALOS!1!

ResolutionOct 31, 20176 votes

I have easier times winning games in Gold then I ever did in Silver. Almost every game in Silver had someone going 2-12. Didn't feel like I got balanced teams till I hit Gold. A lot of games were won or lost depending on which team got the 2-12 and not on solo performance. Silver ranked was more or less rolling dice.

On top of that, the better you do, the worse teammates they match you with next game due to there 10-3-4-4-4 vs 6-6-6-6-6 matchmaking. For some odd reason matching a person whos doing terrible or vice versa insanely good on a team of people playing consistent seemed like a good idea. When you add in people in placements on top of that... Silvers just a mosh pit of throwing random players together.

Last season it took me 250 games to go from Silver V to Gold V, but only 40 games to go from Gold V to Gold 2. Not because I played better, but rather the mathmaking improved.

ProvengreilOct 31, 20171 votes

This has mirrored my experience. Specifically as a support player, I notice gold players reliably utilize my vision war, contribute a few wards of their own, accurately tell whether that sivir ult is engage or retreat, and generally have a baseline competency that makes supporting them SO much easier than the absolute crapshoot low silver can be.

Serika ZeroOct 31, 20176 votes

i got gold 1 with 7/10 placement and then i got plat 5 by winning 10 more games

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Alteraris

and even failed promos once on my way there. Now, imagine if I were put in bronze. Every game would be 100% one sided unless there was a smurf or two in the enemy team. Preferably a smurf jungler or lane enemy, otherwise i snowball to hard and bronze and silver can't deal with that.

you probably don't realize, but every gold and above player will make games in bronze and silver something very disgusting to play against(if they play their main seriously). And this is what usually happens at the start of the season and people complain about it. So, your solution? double down, no, triple it down and put everyone in bronze, muh genius....

side note, i was in the first pick or second pick rotation in the majority of my games. Hence, the enemy team knew they were facing an akali (maybe not a top akali, but still, akali) and rarely to never I've seen someone try to counter her. And people still tried to buy pink wards to spot me. Looooooooooooooooool Also, as a note, I was mostly playing against plat players in my games. So, yeh.

mistakes happen at every elo, even challanger. Its a good idea to not shove everyone in bronze or mid silver at best since, this way, you will get a very disgusting match-making for everyone that doesn't play 500+ games. And especially for lower tier players, since every now and then, there's gona be a smurf climbing up

HaIlMonitorOct 31, 20176 votes

I feel like he is specifically talking about the never played ranked before in any season.

TONY67057819Oct 31, 20174 votes

i only pray to Helm. go away heretic.

NekoniClawsOct 31, 20174 votes

It sucks but they gotta' go somewhere, and it's the most sensible place, statistically speaking.

Also gotta' say, if it was set to bronze 5- it'd make it VERY easy for experienced players to go smurfing and pick on bad or new players. It'd be like punishing them for being bad.

LadyRenlyOct 31, 20174 votes

If silver is the baseline, why even bother with placements to begin with?

MelledoneusOct 31, 20173 votes

Talos? Pah.

Filthy Imperials. FOR THE SWEET ROLL CLAN!

MangelinaJolieOct 31, 20173 votes

Why? They will either drop or climb. Just like everybody else.

A lot of people do indeed earn their placement in Silver through both MMR and placement matches. Matches would be worse in your solution, not better.

GripaAviaraNov 1, 20171 votes

They won't, at least not fast enough. I carried sometimes teams where players couldn't place more than 3 wards or know how to defend/split, not to say about playing defensively and not feed. And I'm 100% there are better players than me that carried teams worse and more often

So even if those players lose 3 in 4, they need around at least 30 games to get to B3 so you a silver player bellow S2 won't get matchmade with them.

notice me Sin piOct 31, 20172 votes

i did manage to pass thru silver on both solo and flex queue, but it took me hundreds to reach gold in solo thx to all those new players feeding when they are on my team. To make things worse, im a support main so those new players are guarenteed to be top/jg/mid/adc in my games while it's not for most others.

NhifuOct 31, 20171 votes

Can be a challenger support, with a noob ADC you'll lose every game that goes past 25 minutes

Because everything boils down to how good your ADC is now...

AzadetheOct 31, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Can be a challenger support, with a noob ADC you'll lose every game that goes past 25 minutes

Because everything boils down to how good your ADC is now...

Nah. I can carry a crappy adc. I can't carry a feeding mid or top as support. Sometimes when you have a crap adc, you have to kind of take over.

notice me Sin piOct 31, 20172 votes

i certainly had some games where i realized my adc was a boosted bronze 5 ADC, and went adc build instead, skipping sightstone and still do highest damage in the game on support budget.

It Hertz When IPOct 31, 20173 votes

I think that says more about ADC itemization costs than anything else.

General Esdeath Oct 31, 20172 votes

Silver was always the starting spot. Why do you think bronze was used as an insult?

WacingTheFindOct 31, 20172 votes

A TALOS WORSHIPER!? DIE!

Proceeds to Fus Ro Dah OP to oblivion.

Starcraft243verOct 31, 20172 votes

The problem is new PLAYERS are put in silver.

I think the problem from riot's point of view is most accounts reaching level 30 are not new players anymore. They are mostly smurfs, but you can't really put every new account in bronze because that would ruin the experience of the real bronze players since they'll meet smurfs in every single game.

So the "best" solution, is by default, to put new accounts in the middle of the ladder and let them drop or rise.

NoblewindOct 31, 20172 votes

Climb through bronze during the start of the season, only to join games which have a mixture of actual silvers vs new ranked players. Seems legit

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 31, 20172 votes

I thought rankeds were too stressful and serious for me to bother with them, so i never got above Silver myself, but for god's sake i'm gonna do my best to climb out of this sh*t hole next season if it means i can get experimented players in my team instead of new players.

eh, i've been in this shithole for 3 seasons. Like you said i was placed at silver 4 first season, then got dropped to bronze 4 and climbed my way back. This season Rito was mercifull i only got dropped to bronze 1. This is the first ranked season where i tried to go further than Silver 4, i managed to go from 0 lp to silver 3 back to silver 4 0 lp. Fuck this shit i aint getting anywhere and normals are alot more fun.

I also never play solo ranked, if i'm gonna suffer atleast it's not alone.

mikemcpartyOct 31, 20172 votes

What is the point of placements then? You win 10 out of 10 and, congratulations!, you are placed in bronze. You win 2 of 10 and, congratulations!, you are bronze. Stupid idea.

T R Y P Oct 31, 20172 votes

new players should be placed bronze 5 period and placements should only be for plat or higher and only 3 games should be played for placements. 10 games is insane and unfair for anyone that is silver or higher trying to advance.

Placements makes ranked a roll of the dice for most players climbing....

10 games times thousands of players = a butt load of dice rolling games... ranked = luck for anyone under diamond.. period.

PrinceOfStormsNov 1, 20171 votes

The average new player plays a hell of a lot better than someone in bronze 5.

C9 Scott Free Oct 31, 20171 votes

Every game where I've ever had more than one new level 30 on my team in ranked was a complete waxing. It's legit what made me give up on ranked this season. I think i have like 30 ranked games this season. Them cutting the XP needed to hit level 30 in half really makes ranked hard to play. But this isn't the place to talk about that. I mentioned it and got insulted a bunch for saying having noobs on teams makes for lopsided and uneven games.

SegiusOct 31, 20171 votes

Well there you go, unless your good at the game you cant get out of silver in 30 or less games, I don't know what you expected, and you can't complain about your teams because looking at your recent match history, you seem to have thrown a lot of games with very low scores.

C9 Scott Free Nov 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well there you go, unless your good at the game you cant get out of silver in 30 or less games, I don't know what you expected, and you can't complain about your teams because looking at your recent match history, you seem to have thrown a lot of games with very low scores.

Ironically I've had people throw lanes for me and just been incapable of pulling it back IE handing enemy laners double kills on invades then never ganking them and a jungler behind me by showing up in the land then as soon as I started fighting running back into enemy jungle against Kat.

But no, I've been too busy to stay sharp and basically gave up so for the most haven't played ranked. Keep in mind the first 10 games you play in ranked are provisional. So 10 games to get put in silver 3 and maybe 8 since then. I think it's 8

Also, your point about 30 games is pretty stupid. Seeing as 10 games is provisional to get to gold in less than 30 games would require no losses at all and winning 19-30 games straight. That's basically high diamond playing in silver level.

TariacosaOct 31, 20171 votes

Must be nice.. I went 9-1 in my placements and got put in Bronze. Not sure what this guy is talking about. I was out of bronze in another 25 games so it didn't matter, but unranked for sure still get placed in bronze fairly frequently.

zaire90Oct 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Must be nice.. I went 9-1 in my placements and got put in Bronze. Not sure what this guy is talking about. I was out of bronze in another 25 games so it didn't matter, but unranked for sure still get placed in bronze fairly frequently.

depends on who you fight during your promos. If you fight plat enemies and go 10/0 for your placements your mmr is going to be higher than the dude who fought bronze 5 enemies and went 10/0

TariacosaNov 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

depends on who you fight during your promos. If you fight plat enemies and go 10/0 for your placements your mmr is going to be higher than the dude who fought bronze 5 enemies and went 10/0

For sure, which is bullshit. If I lose the first game and win 9 after that, at some point in those 9 games I should have been put agains't better players than bronze when I completely roll over them anyways.

Gregor GysiNov 1, 20171 votes

I think at this point in league smurfs have a bigger impact on the elo that new accounts start at than actual newcomers. Hence lowering the starting elo makes absolutely no sense.

AFK PushNov 1, 20171 votes

I feel you I get games that are unwinnable sometimes too, but you have to stick to your guns and try to improve on yourself. You have to carry yourself, because people are going to feed their asses off in silver, it's inevitable. You have been doing best with zac, so don't play anything else just keep spamming it. And if you want to play vi then don't build like that build to carry. There is a vi one trick in challenger that goes full ad, and if it works there it definitely works in low elo. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=supermetroid

AFK PushNov 1, 20171 votes

Here's his guide http://www.lolking.net/builds/vi-build/395874/season-7-vi-guide-by-super-metroid-s4s5s6-na-challenger and his twitch https://go.twitch.tv/supermetroidlol