What was the design concept behind Kayle's anti-tank stats

LatetotheRace·Mar 23, 2019·21 votes·10,890 views

Specifically the Armor-shred and true damage. Kind of like putting a hat on a hat.

30 Comments

Daddy AntsMar 23, 20195 votes

Her shred is anti synergy with her True Damage.

True Damage is Hybrid penetration anyway as it bypasses Armor / MR.

Chembaron YamadaMar 23, 20196 votes

How is it anti-synergy? The true damage is bonus on-hit damage. But if she shreds the armor and magic resistance on her target, then her auto attacks and all the item on-hit effects she has deal additional damage still.

I wouldn't really call that anti synergy, since nothing gets weaker here.

HàrrowRMar 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

How is it anti-synergy? The true damage is bonus on-hit damage. But if she shreds the armor and magic resistance on her target, then her auto attacks and all the item on-hit effects she has deal additional damage still.

I wouldn't really call that anti synergy, since nothing gets weaker here.

Exactly, its like when people said conq will be bad with darius cause his ult is already true damage, like now you also get true damage on the rest of the kit.

Idk why people perceive true + shred to be a bad combo, its just damage on top of damage

Anu3isIIMar 23, 20191 votes

Didn't people switch from Cleaver to Trinity to use Conq effectively? The main points were that his E and Passive already made him shred people to the point where he didn't need Conq. However, Trinity rush made him much better vs Squishies and ppl started picking Conq with it for Maximum Damage.

HàrrowRMar 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Didn't people switch from Cleaver to Trinity to use Conq effectively? The main points were that his E and Passive already made him shred people to the point where he didn't need Conq. However, Trinity rush made him much better vs Squishies and ppl started picking Conq with it for Maximum Damage.

I love when people take things to literally,I meant any champ that has some true damage/armor shred, fiora uses conq even if she has true damage in her kit for example.

Im just saying if you have true damage in your kit that doesnt mean more true damage isnt good or simply more arpen, you just have to understand its damage on top of damage, it doesnt really cancel each other out.

People overstimate how much true damage some champs deal, if lets say in a fight 20% of your damage is true, that still doesnt negate the fact that 80% of your damage benefits from arpen, only reason you dont really benefit from arpen is if your source of true damage is literally 50%+ of your damage like on hit vayne against a tank

Anu3isIIMar 25, 20191 votes

True, it really just depends on the numbers. Having more True Damage/Shred is always beneficial. I guess the only reason people consider this as an anti-synergy is that the champion's power budget is consumed on stats that don't work together instead of having them Hyperscale.

LatetotheRaceMar 23, 20193 votes

True damage is never anti-synergy with anything. It's just guaranteed damage, and in this case pointless guaranteed damage.

ThefrostyvikingMar 23, 20194 votes

Not like she only deals true damage so its like getting a fancy hat and monocle, both fit on your head and make you look fabulous if you have a appropriate garb to go along with it^^

Anu3isIIMar 23, 20194 votes

Her shred has always been a part of her kit. The thing that doesn't make sense at all is the added True Damage.

SweedishGunnerMar 23, 20194 votes

She's just horribly designed, abysmal rework.

BoatwhistleMar 23, 20193 votes

easy, the armor shred allows her allies to do more dmg to the target as well. Until 16 its also good for her.

Ahri BakaMar 23, 20193 votes

So far she is the strongest Tank Shredder at the game right now She legit killed me with 5 autos as Full Build Maokai , like wtf ? I was unkillable , I could always go 1v3 and win , the moment she sees me I'm dead

Flawless FetusMar 24, 20192 votes

Post it. That doesn't make any sense unless you were ap maokai.

Ahri BakaMar 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flawless Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XspjGGIL,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-24T01:19:40.832+0000)

Post it. That doesn't make any sense unless you were ap maokai.

it's more than 20 games ago and no I was full tank , I'm pretty sure you read " Tank Shredder " Her true damage Makes Tank items useless

Flawless FetusMar 24, 20191 votes

at full build she's doing like 200 true damage. Lol. 5 aa's isn't going to kill a tank. Unless all you bought was armor. Sure, if you have no health and no mr the ap auto attacker will kill you. Lol.

RainbowIceeMar 23, 20193 votes

to make sure she works and it's in the spotlight. The point of the reworks isn't to fix anything but to add something new to the game, this game is competitive and the rework would feel bad for them if she wasn't dominating somehow. Until they want another champion in the spotlight kayle is it. I'm against this philosophy of destroying champions and using them as click bait but you guys love reworks so eat it.

Ignika DMar 23, 20192 votes

true damage hurt the squish champions more because tanks build hp and squish do not

SchoenbergMar 23, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ignika D,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XspjGGIL,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-03-23T15:20:15.461+0000)

true damage hurt the squish champions more because tanks build hp and squish do not

her true damage hurt the squish champions more because tanks build hp and squish do not*

AirKingNeoMar 24, 20192 votes

mixed damage has no access to tank killing properties

LatetotheRaceMar 25, 20191 votes

Tanks cannot no efficiently build against hybrid fighters. They usually get stomped in lane as a result, and then the fighters get a runaway lead.

AirKingNeoMar 25, 20191 votes

Yes, they can. They buy adaptive helm and armor as usual, and, if they're onhit, buy Thornmail.

That's how you cripple a mixed damage champion.

LatetotheRaceMar 25, 20191 votes

Sure, but's provided they can get both items built in time. Which in general is an impossibility.

Shrek LuigiMar 23, 20191 votes

True damage isn't an anti-tank stat unless it's doing an amount that scales with the target's maxHP. Yes, it passes through armor/mr, but the majority of true damage abilities are most effective on champions with a lower maxHP pool, moreso against squishies who managed to sneak a bit of armor or mr in. Not all true-damage users are in the same ballpark as vayne lol

NemeBroMar 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XspjGGIL,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-03-23T17:49:32.229+0000)

True damage isn't an anti-tank stat unless it's doing an amount that scales with the target's maxHP. Yes, it passes through armor/mr, but the majority of true damage abilities are most effective on champions with a lower maxHP pool, moreso against squishies who managed to sneak a bit of armor or mr in. Not all true-damage users are in the same ballpark as vayne lol

In large amounts per auto like with Kayle or Master Yi it is also an anti-tank stat.

SirHydroMar 24, 20191 votes

But you guys keep buying Riot points and purchases every event pass and buying all the Prestige skins. So of course Riot's going to keep it up. You guys complain how Riot treats you, but literally put billions of dollars in their pockets. Joke's on the player base.

Fargo79Mar 24, 20191 votes

what i dont understand is if they keep the armor shredding for Kayle why didnt they give Morg back her MR shredding on her soil?

QuephaMar 25, 20191 votes

It's probably mainly as a legacy mechanic but it does further her identity as a supporty-carry by strengthening her whole team's damage against the enemy tanks to ensure her team wins in a drawn-out lategame fight.

I could see it being something that's kept to help increase her low end where she's too weak to really deal damage in a team fight but can at least buff her team's damage (Riot has expressed they worry that her power curve is too extreme and they would tackle balancing her by either buffing her early game or nerfing her late to soften the differences between early and late game Kayle), or it could end up being removed completely if it seems like hidden power that lets her contribute too much without really trying (bland stat nerfs/buffs don't provide very visible benefit so they're seen as "safe" to nerf without taking too much fun away from the players).

LatetotheRaceMar 25, 20191 votes

It's kind of odd, as I think they went very much overboard. Her carry potential is pretty much unparalleled as she's an AOE ranged jax now.