3 junglers at 100% p/b status at worlds this year

[{quoted}](name=Don Cingulum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XrAp2UfJ,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-01T19:43:30.538+0000)

The Pinacle of skilled play is the proffessional scene, which is where the problem is worst,

One could argue that in very high uncoordinated play the problem might be worse, as due to lack of coordination it's easier for these types of junglers to rack up kills and an advantage than in coordinated play, but the emphasis here is on might, kind of hard to decide on that.

and riot balances(or try to...maybe) them around proplay if they are problematic, hence they are not as effective below that level.

Look let's be serious here, 100% p/b and the fact early junglers dominate the competitive scene like 95% of the time(when cindlehulk was broken you saw some sejuani which even at her stronger state wasn't amazing early, so that's the 5%), I don't think it's fair to say they even maybe try to balance them around pro play, they balance them for platinum, more or less.

Sure, at high level diamond and up, especially in 5vs5premade, they are still problematic, though i'd dare to claim that 5vs5 premade at master+ is already semi proffesional.

They are already borderline problematic at low diamond, at high diamond they are problematic period, but 5v5 premade doesn't change much there.

At lower dimond already and more so below, they might be problematic in terms of gamehealth, but are balanced if not even weak in terms of raw power.

They aren't, it's just that to bring out their problems takes a jungle main, but a lot of crappy junglers play them too, making their statistics look worse than they actually are.

I mean if we take lee, who is seems to be the best performing jungler at worlds so far,

Uh, what? The most prominent junglers at worlds are elise, nida, reksai. I mean I can go by winrates, I'd rather respect the teams for what they see as their best options.

at plat+ with 125+games, he's still at a below 50% winrate.

First of all: plat isn't diamond, not even low diamond, it's not just that plat+= mostly lower levels of plat, as that's how it's distributed, looking at plat+ winrate= ~plat 4 winrates

Anyway lee is probably the epitome of this pattern, he falls off harder than any of those, he is also often played by people who quite frankly shouldn't be playing him, and his winrate takes a hit for that(125+ games on lee won't turn your into a jungle main, and too many people who main other roles play him in the jungle even though they don't main it)

Elise, who's aout the most contested jungler reaches a ~52% winrate for that, which for 125+ games is a rather lowish winrate

I'm never happy about the sample size for 125+ games, she has a 49% winrate with 50 average games, that's decent, but yeah she grows stronger with elo.

The only early jungler that does really well in plat+ already is Nida, and she's 100% ban at worlds so far for a reason.

Well yes.

Overall this feels like bickering, I think we both agree they are an issue at the higher elos and weaker lower, we just mostly disagree on where the transition starts, I'd say low diamond is where they start overshadowing their opponents if played by a jungle main.