Every Syndra game at worlds has dominated

ForgiveColour··45 votes·3,512 views

Makes you wonder if mid laners are getting outplayed hard mechanically or just the champion LUL

148 Comments

l Helios l22 votes

Does anyone remember the rage over Syndra when she got tweaks in the MYMU?

"Oh God Rito, TY for gutting Syndra! Please revert!"

Meanwhile at Worlds...

Overlord Forte13 votes

The rage was never over the Q changes, but rather, the W.

The Q's damage was straight downgraded, and was adjusted. [Edit: To clarify, the AP ratios it was bumped to originally made it untenable to retain her old damage. The new ratio it was changed to after this was pointed out made it break-even at 550~ AP, so a late game build got buffed, while early and mid were 'nerfed']

The W passive changes broke an intrinsic safety feature of her kit (sphere life timer and management) once it got maxed second. This in turn broke her R and E, giving them far too much power via being far too easy to use.

They then shoved in AP ratio buffs in 6.12 she never needed.

The answer is to revert the W passive and 6.12 buffs, then re-assess after Preseason guts Rylai's as an offensive item.

In that way, she largely returns to her prior existence.

Jialun6 votes

? her spamming q ability has 0.8 ratio and 40 mana cost, her ult has too way damage for how braindead it is

Overlord Forte13 votes

Her 0.75 AP Q costs 80 mana after Rank 5, and continues to do less damage than her prior-than-6.9 version until 550 AP. It is functionally nerfed until late game, where the change benefits it the most.

Her ultimate takes 9-12 seconds or more to power up and requires the enemy to constantly be in engagement with her. This safety was broken by the new W passive, which allows her to maintain it infinitely.

She has nothing except a stun and a slow for her personal defense on a glass cannon kit design. Any durability gained comes from allies and itemization, of which itemization is a known problem for mages. Ergo, her damage is largely within acceptable parameters, but was taken out of them by the 6.9 and 6.12 changes.

The Fizzlestick1 votes

Giving her the increased slow back on the level 5 w also fits her better thematically, at least in game-play terms, than her current multiple ball pick-up, as she is more of a positioning based kiting mage with her no cast time spells.

Overlord Forte2 votes

The old W passive remains lackluster, but it is non-volatile and doesn't damage the rest of her kit.

As its slow ranks up naturally to a potent amount, I'd probably entertain something like "increased AOE explosion", which mimics the multi-throw without affecting sphere timers.

It also has room for a unique DPS-related passive if they ever wanted to let her have more focused tank killing power.

The key is to not have it change the behavior of spheres in anyway, really.

Jialun1 votes

its about the lead you can get from your early game, with many mages nerffed her early game is too strong. "her ult take 9 to 12 second to power up" you play the same game i play ? she has nothing ? thats not enough cc for a mage ? personal defenses ? azir doesnt have any form of cc anymore and she has nothing ?

Overlord Forte2 votes

Her stun is extremely powerful, functionally a second ultimate in kit design, but it is the strong safety feature she has in a game of multiple dashes/Flash/divers.

Azir, by comparsion:

  • Longer range, sustained DPS via soldiers

  • Long range, maneuverable Dash capable of clearing two or more walls

  • From-behind-to-front AOE knockback ultimate that persists for two~ seconds, denying anyone who can dive him

  • Natural tanky dps itemization, maintaining a top 10 chart distribution while being more durable than most other DPS users in the game

  • Persistent slowing and kiteability via his soldiers' incredible range, low cooldown, and synergy with Rylai's.

We can see that Syndra does not have similar results in the same capabilities (Rylai's and Ghost abuse is a relatively new invention more a problem of those components than her intrinsic kit). She has her slow, Q+E long range stun, and relatively slow-to-use slow on her W. Once her E is down, she is lacking in any meaningful or persistent ways to keep divers off of her and has to constantly leave from battle.

Oh, and any kind of tank can keep her out of combat because she has no natural durability itemization until Rylai's became a problem.

Azir doesn't care about literally any of that, and this is why he was a consistent problem for a long time. There was no meaningful way to beat Azir that wasn't 'dog pile him'.

Miraweave2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Overlord Forte,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XuRHe9wu,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-01T02:42:51.018+0000)

Her 0.75 AP Q costs 80 mana after Rank 5, and continues to do less damage than her prior-than-6.9 version until 550 AP. It is functionally nerfed until late game, where the change benefits it the most.

Her ultimate takes 9-12 seconds or more to power up and requires the enemy to constantly be in engagement with her. This safety was broken by the new W passive, which allows her to maintain it infinitely.

She has nothing except a stun and a slow for her personal defense on a glass cannon kit design. Any durability gained comes from allies and itemization, of which itemization is a known problem for mages. Ergo, her damage is largely within acceptable parameters, but was taken out of them by the 6.9 and 6.12 changes.

The entire "ultimate takes 9-12 seconds to power up" thing is bullshit. It's already one of the highest damage nukes in the game with two balls, anything else is just gravy.

A targeted ability should not have that much power from that early in the game. It easily does more than half of someone's health at level 6 with little to no setup. They should've nerfed it a long time ago.

1 800 MID LANE12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Freelo Robot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XuRHe9wu,comment-id=00060000000000000003,timestamp=2016-10-01T14:49:34.244+0000)

A targeted ability should not have that much power from that early in the game. It easily does more than half of someone's health at level 6 with little to no setup.

Leblanc Cassiopeia Anivia Annie

Cryo004 votes

You forgot Veigar

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

You can flash or dash away from all of those champions though. Syndra's ult follows you all the way across the map if it needs to. Not that it will because she'll kill you while you're stunned anyway.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

Leblanc Q > R Anivia E Veigar R

Yeah, you can get away from a lot of champion nukes (Anivia's included if you don't get frosted) but none of these things are going to kill you unless you get hit by something else also. The same goes for Syndra. A 4-5 ball ult is not going to kill you alone. She still has to hit one of those spheres at the very least.

Overlord Forte5 votes

It is damage appropriate for its class at around 5 spheres, as many other mages have comparable Bursts (usually in the form of AOE skill shots). Given the lack of any meta creep utility features in her kit, it can be reasonably argued the Targeted property is important in its power distribution. It only reaches 'best nuke in game' status at around 6 and 7 spheres.

At 5 spheres (an 8 second charge up period at 0% CDR), her ultimate's damage is comparable to: Akali Leblanc Veigar Annie Talon Fizz and others who are not named.

Unlike her, they do not have a time period required to power up. Annie is the closest, in that you normally want her stun available, but it does not have to be charged in active combat. In a straight engagement, they distribute similar (if not better) damage in the time it takes Syndra's ultimate to become relevant.

Ergo, the enemy must be engaged with Syndra over a sufficient time period for her ultimate to be relevant. If she is ever caught without spheres, she is inherently behind in any engagement and has to draw it out in order to win. Syndra is quite literally one of the slowest Burst mages in the game at the tactical combat level as a consequence to having that much damage she does.

Veigar is slower, but he is slow at the strategic level (and after a set period, becomes as fast as any of the assassins / other burst mages mentioned above).

Anags1 votes

Her wave clear outclasses all of those champs.

High elo players have been spamming this champs for weeks because she is just really strong right now. Arguably the best mid lane pick right now.

This isn't anything that people didn't already know.

Overlord Forte1 votes

Her wave clear is appropriate for her class of slow mages? Lacking in the ability to safely follow through the fog of war uncontested, she requires a capability to dictate the flow of the wave. To an extent, Anivia AurelionSol Azir Ekko Malzahar TwistedFate Varus Viktor Zilean and some others are just as capable in that regard. High mobility champions tend to (and quite possibly, should) lose out on wave management control because they are so safe to roam with across the map.

Cryo001 votes

In that case you are fine with veigar's ult ? Which is literally point and click with no setup required,

Jialun1 votes

his early game is garbage, syndra has assassin kill potential and waveclear of a control mage and strong all stages of the game

l Helios l2 votes

I don't remember specifically what it was, primarily because I didn't care (never been a Syndra player so rip). I just remember the threads that sprung up over the changes

SwiftKitten8814 votes

um yes... so whats your point.. her winrate ranges between 49.7 and 49.9 in EVERY elo

my god there is a .2% difference from bronze - challenger in her winrate, and its basically at 50% on top of that, she dones't reach even 4% banrate in ANY elo..

if you don't consider THAT balanced what on earth is... why would riot even CONSIDER touching that...

she is basically the poster-child for perfect balance right now...

Jialun2 votes

what stats are you looking at ? on champ gg it says she has 59.28

Sir Rouge4 votes

Um no, champ.gg says she has a 48.93% winrate in plat+ (37/47 for midlane). I hope you just made a type and did not actually think her 59.28% winrate was possible...

Jialun1 votes

stroll down, look at highest win rate masteries

Vistha Kai3 votes

How dumb you can you possibly be?

In 140 games out of 26000 she has 59% winrate. Howly shit, that's so OP!

Jialun1 votes

looks like you cant understand the simple presentation of data the website put out. It means out of the 140 games people used that masterise her winrate is at 59. grade school needs you

Vistha Kai4 votes

Speaking of grade school. If "her winrate is at 59" then she has 5900% winrate or 59 out of 140 which is 42%.

Enough with the jokes. Sample size of 140 is so small you wouldn't be able to wipe your ass with it.

Don't use it as an argument in a discussion lest you make a fool of yourself.

The Deckowner14 votes

Every Syndra game that was dominating is due to Jungler interaction and snowball, not the champion themselves.

LankPants11 votes

Every Syndra game at worlds has dominated

You're argument is fundamentally wrong, because in the first game of worlds Syndra did absolutely nothing. That's the thing about 'everything' arguments, all it takes is one counter example and it's wrong.

ForgiveColour1 votes

Mb i dont keep track of wildcard teams and their mid laners. I bet that game was just him getting outplayed

Elikain9 votes

I have no idea what you are making with this argument. ANY champion can feel like an OP pick if he/she is being played by a skillful player + it's also dependent on the enemy team not knowing how to counter him/her.

Which means that player is the one factor that can make the champion look good or bad.

LadyRenly8 votes

You also forget that it was Faker playing Syndra against some random scrub

Faker played mid Ryze when Ryze was universally considered garbage tier and a toplane only champ

Killerjays2 votes

2nd team Mid laner = Scrub sure

Hayaishi27 votes

She is clearing the whole wave with 2 qs with just 2 doran rings. wtf

Elikain5 votes

Viktor is clearing waves with just his one upgrade of his Q.

Abyssphere2 votes

Her Q, if you actually look at the numbers, does similar or less to most basic poke skillshots that mages use to waveclear. If you think her Q waveclear is inappropriate then you have a lot of other mages to be looking at. Syndra's waveclear strength is in using her abilities together. Her Q alone is completely unspectacular as a waveclear spell.

Akali is SO HOT6 votes

I remember when they nerfed her hitbox on her E so she didn't have a lane-wide stun. Then they buffed her W and gave it back to her. Ecks dee

LankPants4 votes

To be fair Syndra mains disagreed with this change every step of the way. If you go back and look at what was posted then we were all telling Riot how stupid the changes were and how they'd destroy what we liked about her as a champ. Now I just know that Riot's going to do something stupid like nerf her Q damage (again) rather than addressing her stupid max rank W, which is a problem.

Jofeyy5 votes

To be fair picking Varus into Syndra was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

Genocide Victim3 votes

All you need to do is press R, such skill

Slythion19 votes

did you forget about all the actual skill-intensive things that build up to your R being actually useful?

Jialun3 votes

hard ? quick cast the abilities, press q and e then r really hard ?

Slythion3 votes

proper positioning, proper timing (you can't just q + e + w + ult unless you're super fed, a lot of the times you have to q + e + q + w (the first q) and hold it for a bit + q + ult and that's if you want a minimum damage ult). Not to mention she's immobile af, and even though she's a lane bully, she will push out the wave 100% of the time if she wants to poke, making her susceptible to ganks with only 1 form of cc which kind of sucks unless you can panic q + e in time.

Miraweave2 votes

{quoted}

proper positioning, proper timing (you can't just q + e + w + ult unless you're super fed, a lot of the times you have to q + e + q + w (the first q) and hold it for a bit + q + ult and that's if you want a minimum damage ult). Not to mention she's immobile af, and even though she's a lane bully, she will push out the wave 100% of the time if she wants to poke, making her susceptible to ganks with only 1 form of cc which kind of sucks unless you can panic q + e in time.

Except that just QQR at level 6 does more than half your health.

Balanced high skillcap champion with plenty of counterplay lel

Slythion8 votes

That combo takes over 8 seconds...you deserve to lose over half your health in that amount of time if you get hit by 2 Q's without anything else. And how dare a bully mage's full combo do more than half your health during laning phase? It's not like that's the whole point or anything

Keepe4 votes

Just for the record, I am familiar with Syndra, and I respect players who main her. And that's not because I suck with her. I also suck with Xin, Yi, Yas, and Riven. Have NO respect for them peeps.

Nine times out of ten, when I struggle against her, it's because I put myself in a bad situation. So. I blame myself when I lose to her. And I then claim I carried when I am 0/2/18 mid.

Slythion2 votes

lol, I can respect that. But from an another perspective, 9 times out of 10 if you died it's because you messed up or put yourself in a bad position or misjudged your power, and only 10% of the time you got outplayed for pretty much any champion

Miraweave2 votes

Remember when Syndra was pick/ban for worlds two years ago because her ult was absolute cancer?

Remember how they nerfed everything else about her?

Guess what still does a completely unreasonable amount of damage.

Vistha Kai3 votes

So much ignorance and confabulations.

She was being picked back then, because she was and still is a natural counter to LeBlanc, which was pick-or-ban for the whole season and some.

Also she was nerfed only twice before MYMU. First base damage on Q, which made her not deal damage before level 3. Second width of stun on her E, which again was such an overnerf it stopped functioning for the next 3 patches.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

It still has an extremely misleading hitbox. I am not saying the hitbox is too big, but the animation causes balls that graze past you to still stun you (especially if it is "max range" and the ball doesn't even reach you but you still get stunned).

Vistha Kai2 votes

It isn't.

Before it was nerfed the first time it was twice as wide as a sphere. After the nerf Spheres would phase through people doing no damage and stunning anybody.

They had to buff it to its current size, because anything smaller was making it completely unusable.

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