A quick math post that explains why i am right about armor and vayne

koshkyra··5 votes·309 views

So, someone who i am not going to call out by name (unlike they did to me) has decided to directly take a piece of one of my previous posts out and copy-paste it to their thread to try to label me as some kind mindless, upvote farming, adc circlejerker.

The quote (which came with no context whatsoever when copy-pasted) regarded armor being uneffective versus ADCs, specifically Vayne.

Apparentally this person thinks that i am wrong about my vayne claim, so i just wanted to provide some actual math to show why i am, in fact, correct, and that i am not the mindless circlejerker they are trying to make me seem like.

Here is the math that explains it all.

Vayne vs Malphite (4000 health, 200 armor)

Vayne W: 480 damage Vayne auto: Lets say it crits for 1100, and is then reduced by 66% (200 armor) and is now 366 damage. Then you factor in item 3036 and you get (+20% damage) (-35% bonus armor) and you end up with the AA dealing rougly 542 damage. item 3087- assuming he has about 150 mr, lets say, SS will deal about 175 damage on a crit. Lastly, vayne's tumble increases the damage of the autoattack by 50% (not the crit part) so it ends up dealing about 670 damage.

So, you add them up, and you end up with roughly 1360 total damage, one vayne auto, versus a malphite with 4k health, 200 armor, and 150 mr.

So i just wanted to show that i am, in fact, correct about armor and vayne. Thank you, however, for trying to make me seem like a mindless circlejerker. You know who you are.

17 Comments

nm10104 votes

So let's make this realistic here

Vayne W: 480 damage

Vayne W: 160 damage (since it takes 3 hits to proc each auto is only worth 1/3 of a proc)

Vayne auto: Lets say it crits for 1100

Vayne is unlikely to have 440 ad in a standard game. Full build with ult on would land her ~350, lets throw in an extra 29 for a gathering storm 30 minute proc. This brings the total to 380 for simplicity's sake. Our crit is now hitting for 950 damage.

is then reduced by 66% (200 armor)

Malphite at bare minimum is going to have item 3047 item 3143 item 3068 which nets him ~326 armor (~76.5% DR). After Vayne's pen this becomes ~247 armor (~71% DR).

Factor everything in (LDR bonus damage, reduction from tabi, randuin's omen, and armor) and the tumble auto ends up dealing ~305 damage.

Fuck it, let's give you the full statikk proc +400 damage.

Add up the bolded sections and we get 865 total potential damage on ONE Vayne auto vs Malphite with 3 armor items, 0 MR, and without his passive on. That is 36% LESS DAMAGE than what you claimed and I factored the numbers in your favor.

koshkyra1 votes

no, we are not counting 1/3 of vayne's W, we are counting ONE auto. one auto that proc's vayne's w.

we are not talking about malphite with more than 200 armor, we are talking about malphite WITH 200 ARMOR because that's what i said in the original quote that the person decided to use. we are using 200 armor, not other quantities of armor.

we are not talking about malphite with tabi's or randuins. we are talking about malphite, with 200 armor

i say "malphite with 200 armor takes X damage" and you go "NO YOURE WRONG BECAUSE MALPHITE WITH 326 ARMOR, NINJA TABI's, AND RANDUINS TAKES Y DAMAGE"

please understand that we are talking about 200 armor and no other quantitiy of armor

you cannot say my math is wrong because you changed the equation and got a different answer.

nm10103 votes

You say

the quote regarded armor being uneffective versus ADCs, specifically Vayne.

Then listed a very unrealistic scenario, and claimed this was Vayne's damage from one auto

So, you add them up, and you end up with roughly 1360 total damage, one vayne auto

Vayne does not proc her w in one auto and only someone who was trying to shit post would defend that statement. As I said I took your highly unrealistic scenario and put it into a actual game scenario. God help your argument if I gave malphite 6 items instead of 3. So you can defend your awful scenario, but your point about armor being "ineffective" is dead as shown above.

Sure if you want to make believe that none of these things exist and that malphite has 200 armor at full build vs full build (+100 ad) Vayne and she somehow has 2 w stacks before she lands an auto go ahead. Whoever called you out was probably in the right judging by this insult to actual league theorycrafting.

koshkyra1 votes

"hmm what you said is very possible but because i dont think it would happen its clearly wrong so god help your argument"

your reply

nm10101 votes

Literally tabi + one armor item is more armor than you gave Malphite in your scenario vs a full build Vayne plus thousands of gold in make believe stats. If you don't see what is wrong with what is essentially 2 item Malphite vs 6+ item Vayne being your example than you are a lost cause.

Fuck if you really want your full w proc on one auto I'll throw 53 mr on Malphite (his base mr) in my scenario and you get 1041 total damage. That is STILL 23% less damage than you claimed in your original numbers. You aren't even close to being a "possible" scenario.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

Malphite at bare minimum is going to have item 3047 item 3143 item 3068 which nets him ~326 armor (~76.5% DR). After Vayne's pen this becomes ~247 armor (~71% DR).

WAit a second... 30+60+60 = 150 +100 base armor (level 18)

He had to build HP + MR with his other two items because he has to split tank. so with the pen hes at 200 armor. Which leaves him at 2/3 damage reduction.

Since we are doing this at level 18 cause we took malphite base armor at level 18... Vayne gets 92AD +40 from ulti =130 (in kit) Items we have item 3031 item 3508 item 3072 70+70+80

for a grand total of 350 crit = 250% which is 875 before DR or buffs

Both of you need some numbers checked...

nm10102 votes

You forget that whole +30% armor that malphite has (technically +90% if his passive is on)?

250 * 1.3 = 325 if you didn't round 100.8 down to 100 you'd get the 326 I used.

Vayne doesn't build ER. Why are you including it and leaving out the explicitly stated LDR? I left out half of malphite's items to make a point that the op is insane to think his numbers are even remotely close.

Mizaya3 votes

Lol what even is the context for this.

200 armor gets his effective armor reduced to 165 with LDR since it's roughly 101 base armor. Then the damage multiplier is 37.7% about, so the 1100 crit does about 415, but with LDR that's amplified to 498.

Statikk shiv deals 160 damage, since the crit is 400 and is multiplied by (100/250), which means the auto, in total, does 658.

Because I don't think having shiv hit at the same time as silver bolts is a feasible situation. But tell me if I missed anything since I'm in a hurry.

Kai Guy1 votes

its not super feasible. yes, you can do it as autos do charge shiv so youd have to use the 2 autos to set the W up to provide enough charges for close to 100 and then have the Q roll provide 100, and be ulting. Its on paper math, its not remotely related to the game or a realistic view of lol.

I wont say he is a Circle jerk ADCS OP. His maths just not a representation of what one can realistically expect to see in the game. Glad your also calling him out for bad context. (Op really should provide the Vaynes build)

3411235456523 votes

Inb4 a very livid boards member whos name rhymes with Dópe comes in with the mandatory ADC downvote.

makkii1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ź J,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XqQ7e6IE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-15T00:06:02.070+0000)

Inb4 a very livid boards member whos name rhymes with Dópe comes in with the mandatory ADC downvote.

lel, +1

Sasogwa3 votes

I'm confused, what even is your point? Also can your math be a bit more on point than "let's say Vayne crits for 1100 damage" and detail calculations?

Like for example on the shiv, you could say it's 160 x 2.5 / (1+(mr/100)), which is pretty nice since mr being 150 means 160x2.5/2.5 = 160. Not sure where you got the 175.

Also, can you think a bit longer about Malphite's armor? If you're thinking about a full build Vayne, let's think about a full build Malphite : 119 base armor + item 3047 item 3143 item 3110 item 3001 item 3083 item 3068

and factor in the fact he gets 30% bonus armor from his W.

That alone would make his armor (119+30+70+100+60)*1.3 = 492.7 armor

(this build isn't even full armor tbh)

A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN 200, and we also have to take in consideration -10% autoattacks from tabis, and -20% on crits from randuins.

Anyway, I don't know what point you wanna make, but please be more rigourous in calculations.

PS : how the fuck do you even get 1360? 670+175+480? that's 1325. And I thought it was a comparison of a tumble Q to a true damage proc? So it would ve 670+175 vs 480? Except the 670+175 is actually way less than that

koshkyra1 votes

we arent talking about malphite with 500 armor though

we are talking about malphite with 200 armor

im not even going to address your "PS" part when i literally used the word "rougly" to express the fact that my numbers were rounded off.

GigglesO1 votes

I would hate for there to be screen shots of what its like to play against adc's when you have 100 armor or less... https://imgur.com/a/RLJKW

ZJD1232 votes

It doesnt matter if you are circlejerking or being reasonable. ADC mains on these boards view every thread only as a false dichotomy, either your thread is FOR adcs "they aref fine" or AGAINST adcs as a "circlejerk", nothing inbetween is possible in their mind. Thats probably why your thread hasnt even been commented on or even been out for a hot sec and its already been downvoted. What possible reason to downvote this thread i dont get it.

Kai Guy2 votes

His math is misleading, he did not provide actual item builds, looking at the # he provided for vayne it seems like he is calculating off a 6 build level 18. He accounts for ADC items doing extra damage such as item 3087 item 3036 He counts for W triggering which requires stacks (probably costing you the shiv static but theoretically it could trigger even if realistically its unlikely so I can let that one slide) But he did not calculate if malph has item 3047 item 3143 for example.

It feels like an exaggeration to prove a point and one that's not realistic in relation to how the game plays. Theres many better ways to express being upset with adcs. I personally would go after Vayne power spiking to fast for being such a strong late game champion.

Its not wrong, The numbers are not impossible but its bad math because it only holds up on paper. I wont call the OP a Circle jerker or Echo chamber player, I have not seen enough post from them to make a fair judgment. In this post however His math is unreasonable.

Kai Guy2 votes

The requirement for that is you will have to get off 2 stacks for the W first. Politely, I disagree that it would be fair to claim she does over 1k damage to that malph with "one vayne auto" as it wont work unless you land the 2 stacks previously and that's an investment of time and risk for vayne in many situations on and off paper.

Vayne needs 550 AD for standard crits to be worth 1100, she needs 440 if she has IE. Lets assume IE. Currently her build is now at item 3031 item 3087 item 3036 A level 18 Vayne has a base of 92.2 ad. Currently we sitting pretty at 212.2 For your crit of 1100 we need to almost double her AD. The highest AD item is item 3072 (assuming no Orrn on team.) and we would need 3 of them to get her AD to 400's. Now her R steroid will help lower that as it provides 40 ad. But even then we are still looking at 3 item slots of investment into AD to get her to that high 440's. Shes only at 412.2 AD with a build of item 3072 item 3072 item 3036 item 3087 item 3031 and that's level 18 and during her level 3 ultimate. So we do have room to push her up into 440 for your crit of 1100, its unlikely to ever be her build and will require all 6 slots.

So yea I take an issue with your math because you are not listing her full build. and the amount you selected for your single Crit is abnormally high requirement of ad. Is there any reason a level 18 vayne with full build should not be doing high damage?

In the future please post the build behind that allows a champ to do that damage and please do not treat the required conditions like they are stand alone.

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