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I'm gunna let you all in on a secret about fighting Vlad, specifically top.

WoonStruck··41 votes·4,287 views

Don't waste your money on item 3123 early.

item 3155 item 3044item 3111 ASAP gives you absolute lane dominance vs Vlad.

Due to Vlad's massive CDs and meager sustain early, Executioner's Calling does not accomplish much, and only delays more important items.

Hexdrinker removes all risk while all-inning, and mitigates the damage between all-ins as well.

Phage provides a huge amount of sticking power and engage potential in lane if utilized properly that will deal more 'effective damage' than the sustain that Executioner's Calling would remove.

Unless you can constantly proc its passive somehow without it being considered an all-in, Vlad will sustain almost as effectively as if you hadn't bought EC.

If you are going all-in, Hexdrinker removes risk, while Phage allows you to be more opportunistic with your engages, as well as chase him down the lane for a kill, thus is infinitely better than EC as well.

Yeah, I basically just said the same thing twice because I can't stress how much better hexdrinker+phage rush is than delaying your ability to do anything vs Vlad by building what's effectively a win-more item against him.

#Final tidbit that should convince you of why hex+phage is so much better:

Phage builds into both Trinity Force and Black Cleaver, which a large portion of top laners build anyway.

If you're not a champion that builds Trinity Force or Black Cleaver, you wouldn't buy EC either, and likely lose vs Vlad no matter what you do unless you're Rumble or something.

93 Comments

Eedat9 votes

I main Wukong and Vlad is my easiest matchup. Tricks to beating Vlad is to fight him every chance you get. His early game sustain is awful and his W and E have huge HP costs. Don't let him sit there and sustain back up. Even forcing him to use his W is a win because of the very high HP cost and long CD.

WoonStruck3 votes

Wukong is 50-50.

Its easy to beat most Vlads with Wu, but a well-played Vlad can stop your E damage and kite with W->E detonation, invalidating your E->Auto->Q harass while retaliating very hard, especially those that take Stormraider's.

It basically snowballs one way or the other, although the Vlad has to play much more consistently and tediously than the Wu.

The match-up is only really 'hard' if Wu takes ignite...in which case Wu ends up a liability in comparison if he doesn't essentially remove Vlad from the game.

Eedat11 votes

Nooooooooooooooo no no no. Wukong vs Vlad is not a 50-50. Wukong absolutely slaughters this matchup. It is hands down my easiest matchup. Even easier than Gnar. Wukong with half a clue demolishes even experienced Vlad players. You can't stop Wukong's E>Auto>Q combo because Vlad's W has a 28 second cooldown. Don't forget that it also costs 20% of his current HP essentially as true damage. Vlad's Q range is shorter than Wu's E range and Wu's E has an 8 second CD. If Vlad ever wants to Q anything he won't be able to avoid me jumping on him. I'll just stand on my minions and any time he wants to Q literally anything I'll jump him. Vlad's E is worthless because I can simply block it with my clone.

At 6 this matchup become so trivial that if Vlad ever comes near me, I force an all in and kill him every single time.

This is an absolute massacre of a matchup. Vlad's only choice is to be completely zoned away from CS at almost all times. Vlad is exceptionally weak to any champ that can force trades frequently early which is something Wu can do very well.

http://imgur.com/a/6ViTi

Sagan Forever2 votes

It is true. Playing against the monkey as vlad and all I think is that lease god let me only get 20 cs behind that would be great.

WoonStruck3 votes

You can't use champion.gg as an estimate for decent Vlad players.

As an obvious example, look at the most common rune page. lol

Another example? Most common starting item.

The best starting items for Vlad are boots+4 or Dark Seal+3. There's essentially 0 point in starting anything else.

Another example? Summoner spells.

TP Vlad is actual garbage. The overall map presense and laning pressure you have with Flash+Ghost is far superior. Considering the lack of hard CC, the increased cast time of TP made it useless on him.

You can see when fights are going to start in most cases and roam there, arriving at a similar time to when you'd TP, but with two mobility summoners; far superior throughout the game.

The Wukong match-up is not as hard as you're making it out to be. E has a relatively long CD early, allowing plenty of time for Vlad to auto in retaliation as Wu runs from creeps. If the jungler leaves Gromp for healing you easily can pull things over on Wu too.

Force Wu to OOM early and you've won.

The problem is that most Vlads don't know how to play the early game into many match-ups, which is why Quinn, Darius, and Wu have such high winrates vs him. Those are all exceedingly easy match-ups to scale into if you don't feed kills early.

I fear a Ghost+Flash+Stormraider's Darius more than Wu any day.

Eedat1 votes

You cant really auto me in retaliation because I'm going to be popping my clone to get out and avoid creep damage anyway. After 6 there really is nothing Vlad can do. Ghost isn't enough movement speed to counteract the movement speed I get from my ult. Once Wu is 6 you go in for one E>auto>Q combo. If Vlad wastes his pool he's dead 100% when your E comes off cooldown. If he doesn't he's still dead because I'll still kill him even if he pools a few seconds of my ult.

If I wasn't at work I would say we could try it out in a custom game

Toastersaot1 votes

{quoted}

You cant really auto me in retaliation because I'm going to be popping my clone to get out and avoid creep damage anyway. After 6 there really is nothing Vlad can do. Ghost isn't enough movement speed to counteract the movement speed I get from my ult. Once Wu is 6 you go in for one E>auto>Q combo. If Vlad wastes his pool he's dead 100% when your E comes off cooldown. If he doesn't he's still dead because I'll still kill him even if he pools a few seconds of my ult.

If I wasn't at work I would say we could try it out in a custom game

Although the Vlad-Wukong match up is a skill match up, it's slanted pretty hard in Wukong's favor. If Vladimir pools half a second early or half a second too late, Vladimir will probably die, especially if Wukong has Ignite.

KingKong23504 votes

This guy is right though. You dont have to time the pool for wukong. Its a 28 second cooldown. Just disengage and reengage in 8 seconds

Eedat2 votes

a matchup that is slanted hard in one champions favor is not a "skill matchup". Thats like the complete opposite of what that term means

Toastersaot2 votes

{quoted}

a matchup that is slanted hard in one champions favor is not a "skill matchup". Thats like the complete opposite of what that term means

My bad.

I should have phrased it like this:

Decent Vlad Vs. Decent Wukong-Wukong win

Good Vladimir Vs. Decent Wukong-Even Lane decided by Jungle pressure

Best Vladimir World Vs. Best Wukong World-Even Lane decided by Jungle pressure

Basically at lower skill levels Wukong will be victorious, but at the top of the ladder Wukong and Vladimir will go even.

CØulrophobia1 votes

You cant go all in on Vlad if you dont use your clone at the start of the fight. Otherwise Vlad is just stupid and mispositions. Lv 1, Vlad will get few Qs off on you if you want to farm. Lv2. Vlad can still get few Qs of if he is smart. He will also push the lane and prepare to play passivly as he slowly goes back to his tower. Lv3. Vlad will be at 100% you at 80%(if you are lucky). Lv3-6.then to lv9 Here is where the deciding factor is. If Vlad can manage to freeze the lane and keep you at 80% while staying relativly healthy he is going to go back to base when he comes back he will wipe Wu out of the game. Any other situation results in Wu winning. Also some Vlad runepages,masteries and builds are more effective then the others. I for instance prefer DT over stormraiders as it provides more pressure and trading potential.

UnboundCreator1 votes

{quoted}

I main Wukong and Vlad is my easiest matchup. Tricks to beating Vlad is to fight him every chance you get. His early game sustain is awful and his W and E have huge HP costs. Don't let him sit there and sustain back up. Even forcing him to use his W is a win because of the very high HP cost and long CD.

I hate wukong players like you so much. Im a vlad main and wukong cheeser are my BANE

Eedat1 votes

cheesers?

UnboundCreator1 votes

{quoted}

cheesers?

Are you not familiar with the term?

Eedat2 votes

but why is playing a champion considered cheesing?

vOmvbrawfU3 votes

item 3155 is no secret. If you're AD and don't rush this item vs. every AP enemy, you're just dumb. It's literally a 1300g you will never kill me if I'm not an idiot item.

Eedat2 votes

Hmmmm I don't know about that. I main Wukong and I don't feel the need to rush Hex in some AP matchups. I won't rush it in matchups that they don't have kill pressure on me. I won't build it against Rumble or Vlad but I would against Swain

Ralanr2 votes

Ok, what if I'm playing someone who doesn't really use hexdrinker and phage?

Like a tank or a mage top laner?

WoonStruck18 votes

Tank: item 1054 ->item 3211 item 3111 ->item 3065

Mage top? You win vs Vlad anyway.

Just don't eat CR procs or fully charged Tides for free without a very good reason.

Ralanr3 votes

Are you sure about Shield? Not to insult you or anything, but it feels kinda shit.

WoonStruck13 votes

Vlad's entire pressure early comes from autos and CR procs.

With MR, shielding/healing that most tanks have early, his base Qs won't be doing much, and D-shield mitigates it even further.

Doran's shield offers a huge amount of mitigation from his pressure early, and simply gives you a better early game on low-pressure champs than many other alternatives.

You're free to start Corrupting Potion, for example, but D-shield stops Vlad from all-inning at level 2 or 3 for a quick first blood...which is not uncommon at the moment, especially vs tank tops.

I wouldn't suggest it if it didn't work.

I think D-shield is a garbage item in most cases. Vlad is one of the few champions it works against if you're going defensive.

UnboundCreator2 votes

{quoted}

Tank: item 1054 ->item 3211 item 3111 ->item 3065

Mage top? You win vs Vlad anyway.

Just don't eat CR procs or fully charged Tides for free without a very good reason.

Vlad beats a LOT of mages.

WoonStruck2 votes

Top mages? Not so much.

Kennen, Rumble, Swain, and Ryze tend to beat Vlad.

Handy Sandy 10 votes

{quoted}

Ok, what if I'm playing someone who doesn't really use hexdrinker and phage?

Like a tank or a mage top laner?

item 3165 = Core on every mage item 3001?

WoonStruck5 votes

Abyssal before Morello's. At the very least, the Negatron.

Problem is that Vlad will also rush Abyssal, which is by far his best 1 item spike in the game.

Most mages win before that vs Vlad though, if not played poorly.

Swain, Ryze, and Rumble come to mind.

Grievous Wounds isn't as strong vs Vlad atm as people think. Vlad finds success building high AP atm. He's looking to nuke your back line down, not sustain through a fight.

If the mage uses Morello's, yeah, fine. But on someone like Swain? Not really worth picking up still.

SteelMankind1 votes

Abyssal rush is pretty bad though. Ever since the passive was changed from flat MR reduction to 10% increased magic damage, its become more of a mid/late game item.

If you must, you can sit on the negatron cloak while you build other items.

WoonStruck1 votes

Abyssal rush is great on Vlad.

Offers CDR, enough AP to continue his scaling pressure, MR, and a 10% damage increase that multiplies (not adds) his ult and masteries.

If Abyssal rush were bad, it wouldn't be showing up in pro games.

Not only that, but each stat on Abyssal is needed for Vlad and without the 10% amp, his kill potential and early-mid game teamfighting is significantly weaker.

SteelMankind1 votes

Old Abyssal gave 70 AP and 20 magic resist reduction. Not even accounting for the extra AP and the fact that it made minions have -20 MR, old Abyssal beat new Abyssal until a pretty hefty amount of target MR.

Left side is target's magic damage reduction, calculated with old Abyssal. Right side is target's magic damage reduction with new Abyssal.

100/(100 + MR - m.pen - 20) = 1.1*100/(100 + MR - m.pen)

100/(80 + MR - m.pen) = 110/(100 + MR - m.pen)

100(100 + MR - m.pen) = 110(80 + MR - m.pen)

10,000 + 100MR - 100m.pen = 8,800 + 110MR - 110m.pen

1,200 = 10MR - 10m.pen

120 = MR - m.pen

Target MR needed for 10% increased magic damage > 20 magic resist reduction = 120 + your magic pen

And there you have it. Absolutely no way this happens before lategame when against tanky targets, but what does it mean?

It means that old Abyssal was way more damage than current one, because in addition to the passive being way stronger against champs, it also gave 10 more AP AND reduced the MR of nearby minions to -20, allowing you to push faster.

If the pros are still getting it, it must be because of the CDR and extra MR are worth the lower damage. I would never rush Abyssal personally because I prioritize upfront burst over CDR when I'm playing an AP mid laner, and can just get Negatron if I really need the MR. I still think it's a bad rush item. If you want to continue believing that it's good, be my guest, but know what you're purchasing it for - CDR and MR in a single item slot. Not damage.

WoonStruck1 votes

Find another item for similar cost that increases damage as much as Abyssal.

Even without any additional AP, it boosts empowered Q damage up to about 400. Unless you're rushing Luden's or Deathcap, which, trust me, you aren't. You aren't getting as much damage out of another item.

Along with not getting as much damage out of another item, you're getting CDR and more defensive stats.

It doesn't matter if old Abyssal offered more damage as a rush. The new one is still the best one-item spike in the game for Vlad.

SteelMankind1 votes

item 3152 or item 3116 or any two ofitem 3145item 1058item 3136item 3020 are all more damage early game. 10% increased magic damage when your full combo only hits for ~800 or so is really not that great, so basically any item for the same price with more AP or an active is going to outdamage Abyssal early game.

Spoofghoul2 votes

just kill him levels 1-3

then continue to kill him everytime he shows up

his early all in is pathetic

WoonStruck3 votes

Vlad can very easily get first blood on most champs lvl 1-3 atm if they're not extremely careful.

Theiki Kayle3 votes

A lot of people (including me, for a while) underestimate empowered Q dmg and pay the price for it. Only all-in him if you have massive sustain or burst early game. You can try cheesing him at lv 1 as Riven, poke him down and all in him after Tear with Cass, play something that roams a lot better (Aurelion Sol, TF, any high-mobility ganking assassin) and get your other lanes fed. If Vlad isn't ahead, it takes a while for him to be able to solo multiple enemies.

Waffletimewarp2 votes

Additionally, keep an eye on his resource bar. If it turns red, back the hell away for a few seconds because his q deals a crapload more damage and heals for more during that time.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Galio

Toastersaot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XkwHQB1g,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-03-29T19:33:54.224+0000)

Galio

He's decent against Vladimir right now, however I feel it's because his base damage is overtuned a bit. He's definitely serviceable into Vladimir and can outroam him.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I still have to see him building lots of MR but if it has the same magnitude of pre rework then this is going to be an unkillable pain for Vlad.

WoonStruck2 votes

Pre-rework Galio was worse for Vlad to deal with.

I'm fine with the new Galio, match-up wise.

GrReaper962 votes

Nice try Vlad mains

Hahahahyena2 votes

im pretty sure dyrus once said he rushed item 3123 against Vladimir one ttime top lane and he felt like that item didnt do anything for his lane. it was in one of his youtube videos, i forgot which one

nachocheeseeeee1 votes

Who wins in a 1v1 late game Vladimir or Swain.

WoonStruck4 votes

The only scenario where Swain wins is if Vlad is building tanky.

If Vlad is building properly (item 3001 item 3089 item 3157 item 3135 item 3158 item 3151 or something similar), he wins vs Swain.

Melledoneus1 votes

Shen item 3211 Guaranteed lane dominance.

WoonStruck4 votes

Vladimir item 1001 Guaranteed lane dominance.

Loljk item 1082 is better.

But srsly just don't get hit by every taunt and you win.

Melledoneus3 votes

Here's the thing... Shen waits for you to get out of position. He pulls his sword through. Vlad tries to escape with his pitiful MS. Shen starts destroying him. Vlad pools to escape. Shen taunts him the moment he comes back up.

It's truly fun to watch.

WoonStruck2 votes

I mean, if you're playing against a player that doesn't know about Shen's slow, yeah. But I always assume both players know how the other champion works.

A Vlad that uses pool like that is a Vlad that would have lost to almost any other champ as well.

UnboundCreator1 votes

As a Vlad main I disagree with this post. If you've forced the enemy laner to build hex against you, then they've already lost lane.

WoonStruck3 votes

In what world do champions that look to simply stat-check you lose lane from building items that let them safely stat-check harder?

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

In what world do champions that look to simply stat-check you lose lane from building items that let them safely stat-check harder?

Darius should not need a hexdrinker. It'd be be better to rush phage merc and then finish cleaver/tri force.

WoonStruck1 votes

Hex is easily interchangeable with Cowl based on the champion.

There's not really a case where you'd build hex over cowl on someone that wants Spirit Visage.

Because of that, you can't really 'force' someone to build Hex that wouldn't normally build it in the first place.

Forcing those champions to build hex wouldn't really be forcing. It would be a build mistake on their part.

That said, you aren't wrong.

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