Few concerns as a Yorick main

Z3Sleeper··49 votes·16,983 views

Edit: We've been heard.

{quoted}

Yorick

We’ve got a change going into 8.12 where Yorick’s summons will update their stats as Yorick’s stats update. In particular that means things that give/remove > AD post cast (Sterak’s, Conqueror, Mocking Shout etc) will be more relevant.

  1. The addition of Conqueror buffed everyone else way more than us. Ghouls and Maiden don't update their AD when Conqueror procs, so we get the true damage but not the benefit of bonus AD really. We did much better when it didn't exist and Grasp was our go-to keystone.

  2. Banner of Command being nerfed is another nerf to us, since it was a go-to item in many scenarios. I don't blame you, this nerf is warranted and we were just riding the abuse train.

  3. Sterak's being converted to bonus AD is a major nerf for us. Yorick has all of 1 damage skill and this change severely cuts that damage down. And if you tie this bonus AD to the shield effect, then ghouls and Maiden won't receive the bonus if they are already summoned.

  4. Spear of Shojin and Atma's are not gonna be good for us while extremely good for our opponents. Yorick will probably find some use out of Spear, but since the item is already tailored more towards light fighters than bruisers, obviously light fighters are getting the much better end of this. Atma's on the other hand is made for bruisers. But sadly, Yorick isn't an auto attack champion. You really don't want to be auto-ing as much as Yorick and leaving the dirty work to your pets while weaving in Q's here and there. To add more insult to injury, once again, ghouls and Maiden do not update their AD after being summoned so Atma's bonus AD effect won't do anything for us.

  5. New total armor penetration LW items are naturally gonna suck for us depending on how high the number is.

  6. Can't tell if IE is gonna suck more or not, idk the value of 15% true damage vs +50% crit damage.

  7. Almost forgot about this one. Resolve base stat changes giving you much less health early where Yorick struggles the most.

  8. Also we got a -3 AD nerf to compensate for the Sterak's change to +50% base AD awhile back.

All in all it just feels like we're getting the short end of the stick here. I don't expect anything to be tailored for the specific case of a single champion, but just keep an eye out for this guy after the patch hits, as I highly expect it to be way harder to do anything on this champion.

One really simple change you could do right now for us though is to make ghouls and Maiden update their AD while they are summoned. This would alleviate alot of the issues.

87 Comments

Hammermancer35 votes

You got a rework yourick now go be mordekaiser in a corner until you get reworked again

ValiantKiller6 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XjTnGTKE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-28T12:02:52.632+0000)

You got a rework yourick now go be mordekaiser in a corner until you get reworked again

Urgot Hello from other side.

Warlord Rhinark5 votes

Poppy why are we still here.

ValiantKiller4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XjTnGTKE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-29T06:31:02.537+0000)

Poppy why are we still here.

While on other hand Evelynn Irelia Swain Sion we top tier champions and we had a nice rework.

Queš9 votes

Hey there.I'm d1 euw Yorick otp (d1-lowmaster on 2 accounts season 7 too on Yorick).

I agree with you and,I believe, RIOT are looking into dynamic ghoul/maiden AD issue and should fix asap.

Sterak nerf will hit Yorick hard too(Maybe the hardest of all tri-steraks bruisers).

I think they should give us +3 AD back(he was nerfed while ago in context of trinity-steraks being too good on him) + make ghoul/maiden AD dynamic (so we can use Conqueror and new Atma at least).And maybe somehow compensate his Sterak loss,something like buff to his Q total scaling imo(like 140% tAD -> 140% - 160% tAD).

y0r1ck1 votes

You mean +3 ad on ghoul autos right? 2-100 --> 5-95?

Z3Sleeper1 votes

I think so, we've been getting minor nerfs via other champions in our lane being buffed and our items being nerfed each patch and they've started to add up.

GigglesO2 votes

welcome to the club... Mordekaiser has the same treatment.

Friendly Ram6 votes

Maybe they can give yorick his damage reduction back?

Kaìju5 votes

To be fair Yorick also takes towers as one of the fastest champions in the game. All you need is ten seconds with a tower to pretty much kill it, which eats up a lot of your power budget.

BLIGHTBRINGER8 votes

Caitlyn Ziggs Nasus Rengar Trundle

^ All of these are able to kill towers fast as well.

Caitlyn's Passive deals a decent amount of damage to Towers, Ziggs Passive also deals a decent amount of damage to towers, Nasus can just spam Q on towers, Rengar's Q also works on towers, Trundle can just keep chomping on towers with his Q.

https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzNYvpek.png

GorillaBearz4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XjTnGTKE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-28T13:40:55.344+0000)

Caitlyn Ziggs Nasus Rengar Trundle

^ All of these are able to kill towers fast as well.

Caitlyn's Passive deals a decent amount of damage to Towers, Ziggs Passive also deals a decent amount of damage to towers, Nasus can just spam Q on towers, Rengar's Q also works on towers, Trundle can just keep chomping on towers with his Q.

https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzNYvpek.png

Rengars Q is just an auto attack reset on towers, but it doesn’t amplify the damage.

BLIGHTBRINGER2 votes

Oh well in that case it's okay I suppose, but Youmuus played Rengar as a "Anti-Tower Rengar" splitpusher in one of his videos and he kind of destroyed towers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw3FxCo8CSs&t=573s

L Rayquaza3 votes

Dont forget Ziggs can demolish low health towers

TempName548463 votes

can yall nibblers stop using sig shit in your posts

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Nah I agree with him, Yorick's turret taking potential is absolutely disgusting. I think Nasus is the only one that comes close (I think Nasus is actually more with Ult).

But I don't agree with it eating into his power budget. Taking turrets is more risky for Yorick cuz of both immobility and the fact that the towers will kill your ghouls first so you have less combat power if someone comes to stop you. I wouldn't expect that to devour his power budget or anything.

Kaìju1 votes

Not all of it but his passive, Q, and R eat a lot of it and they all add to your tower taking.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

I don’t think my 120 second cd ultimate that is absolutely essential in some duels and 100% in 1v2 scenarios (aka being able to push up relatively safely despite a threat) being used as a glorified minion for taking a few turret shots is really eating into the power budget.

Passive and Q yeah, except ghouls are always targeted first and die in one shot. Not exactly ridiculously strong turret taking summons.

Kaìju1 votes

You can use ghouls to make more minions to kill tower. I do it on Malz, spam Q for more summons to keep tanking tower, even if they only hit tower once. As well, Yorick R can split push on its own. That's really powerful, it's like a tiny Rift Herald.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Yeah you can and it really does have some seriously great use cases. Only downside is the 120 second cooldown that starts after it dies.

Having it die fruitlessly really hurts your options for the next 2 minutes.

Risen293 votes

+1. These issues are spot on. And serious for anyone who wants to main Yorick.

Let's not also forget that not long ago they nerfed Yorick's base AD to account for the power of Trinity+Steraks and his Q. Will we see that base AD coming back when Steraks is changed?

I also agree that if pets updated their AD dynamically most of these problems would go away. You can't have juggernaut items designed around updating AD without considering that Yorick has a good chunk of his damage offloaded into his pets.

Autrah Fang1 votes

{quoted}

+1. These issues are spot on. And serious for anyone who wants to main Yorick.

Let's not also forget that not long ago they nerfed Yorick's base AD to account for the power of Trinity+Steraks and his Q. Will we see that base AD coming back when Steraks is changed?

i doubt it. Riot rarely ever reverts these kinds of nerfs when the reason they were nerfed also gets changes.

Hyquiem2 votes

Well a champ who has been meta from almost since his release deserves some death.

Queš4 votes

Eks fucking Dee

Z3Sleeper5 votes

You hear that? We're meta now. Move aside Sion, Camille, Mundo and Shen.

PowerOfDrainAge2 votes

What do u mean? I never saw a Camille or a Sion in my games. Always a fucking Yorick penetrates through my inhibitor every time @ 10mins. /s

TeCoolMage2 votes

Atma's looks fine on yorick if and when they fix the intersection with ghouls. Doesn't at all look like an auto item, just a prolonged combat item. Unless ghoul damage doesn't count as being in combat, which is stupid af in that case Shojin is definitely for all bruisers, not just light fighters IF (and I am 90% certain it is like this) the reduction is after armour like Amumu E passive and not Fizz innate passive.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

Atma's looks fine on yorick if and when they fix the intersection with ghouls. Doesn't at all look like an auto item, just a prolonged combat item. Unless ghoul damage doesn't count as being in combat, which is stupid af in that case

They do count as being incombat, but they dont update thier AD dynamically. This means yorick will never benefit from it's passive for a huge proportion of his damage.

Shojin is definitely for all bruisers, not just light fighters IF (and I am 90% certain it is like this) the reduction is after armour like Amumu E passive and not Fizz innate passive.

"Bruiser" is not a riot class designation.

Spear is designed for divers, a subclass for fighters.

Spear by design wont work well with juggernauts because they lack gapclosers and mobility to insert themselves directly into the middle of an enemy team and instantly trigger the passive. Although some juggernauts want to be in the middle of a fight, they cant do it easily.

Another reason its designed for divers is because they need to build damage to be effective. So they need better options that let them build for damage while having some tankiness. But juggernauts are designed to have high base damage so they dont need to build damage. They benefit more from building tank because they can get away with it.

DragonShea2 votes

Check the PBE, Yorick is getting so fixing in relation to your concern if his dynamic ghoul scaling.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Ohhhhhhhhh? Checkin it dooooood

GhaelWinds1 votes

I really don't think Steraks is that important. Just go trinity titanic and he's fine tbh.

He definitely needs to have pets update their ad during summon. At first it was bearable with just conq but with atmas as a potential pick up? Yea that'll hurt.

Queš7 votes

No,Titanic is bad on Yorick.His core build is Trinity Sterak right now and after Sterak nerfs comes out,he will build only Trinity probably

GhaelWinds1 votes

{quoted}

No,Titanic is bad on Yorick.His core build is Trinity Sterak right now and after Sterak nerfs comes out,he will build only Trinity probably

Titanic is great for Yorick. The on-hit damage is comparative to the ad you get from steraks plus you get one missing link in your splitpush dominance: waveclear.

Honestly anyone who says that titanic is bad on yorick just haven't played it on him.

Queš3 votes

Bro you need to be getting fresh ghouls every wave after 13 lvl and u want to dump 3500 gold into that ?Its way worse statwise and u dont even autoattack that much to make use of onhit damage. Titanic is ok in fudd ad builds as 1 of the last items jsut to get extra AA reset.

GhaelWinds1 votes

{quoted}

Bro you need to be getting fresh ghouls every wave after 13 lvl and u want to dump 3500 gold into that ?Its way worse statwise and u dont even autoattack that much to make use of onhit damage. Titanic is ok in fudd ad builds as 1 of the last items jsut to get extra AA reset.

Yep exactly. And with titanic you can get 3 ghouls from 1 wave with 2 Qs. Because once your passive graves gets down to 4 needed then titanic makes that process so much faster. titanic build can actually get you more and faster ghouls than steraks.

Queš2 votes

I guess u cant see from ur platinum elo clearly.Whatever,lets stop right here,right now.

GhaelWinds4 votes

{quoted}

I guess u cant see from ur platinum elo clearly.Whatever,lets stop right here,right now.

How about make an actual argument instead of ad hominems. kthx.

Queš4 votes

I did,u just dont want to tsee it or think.I can critique ur Yorick(like last game u played as Yorick u went cdr boots vs Teemo/Swain and maxed E nd so I can assume u are bad Yorick or play on autopilot).Reread my points and u may actually understand,but i doubt it so i d better leave now and wish you good luck in ur further Yorick play.

MadViking1 votes

{quoted}

  1. The addition of Conqueror buffed everyone else way more than us. Ghouls and Maiden don't update their AD when Conqueror procs, so we get the true damage but not the benefit of bonus AD really. We did much better when it didn't exist and Grasp was our go-to keystone.

  2. Banner of Command being nerfed is another nerf to us, since it was a go-to item in many scenarios. I don't blame you, this nerf is warranted and we were just riding the abuse train.

  3. Sterak's being converted to bonus AD is a major nerf for us. Yorick has all of 1 damage skill and this change severely cuts that damage down. And if you tie this bonus AD to the shield effect, then ghouls and Maiden won't receive the bonus if they are already summoned.

  4. Spear of Shojin and Atma's are not gonna be good for us while extremely good for our opponents. Yorick will probably find some use out of Spear, but since the item is already tailored more towards light fighters than bruisers, obviously light fighters are getting the much better end of this. Atma's on the other hand is made for bruisers. But sadly, Yorick isn't an auto attack champion. You really don't want to be auto-ing as much as Yorick and leaving the dirty work to your pets while weaving in Q's here and there. To add more insult to injury, once again, ghouls and Maiden do not update their AD after being summoned so Atma's bonus AD effect won't do anything for us.

  5. New total armor penetration LW items are naturally gonna suck for us depending on how high the number is.

  6. Can't tell if IE is gonna suck more or not, idk the value of 15% true damage vs +50% crit damage.

  7. Almost forgot about this one. Resolve base stat changes giving you much less health early where Yorick struggles the most.

All in all it just feels like we're getting the short end of the stick here. I don't expect anything to be tailored for the specific case of a single champion, but just keep an eye out for this guy after the patch hits, as I highly expect it to be way harder to do anything on this champion.

One really simple change you could do right now for us though is to make ghouls and Maiden update their AD while they are summoned. This would alleviate alot of the issues.

I agree with majority of what you said, however I thought Banner was being buffed? I haven't checked PBE in about a few days but I feel like the changes with the exception of the CD removal are good for the item. The new Promotion makes minions way better, they can get damaged by magic attacks now but they take an overall 70% dmg reduction from champions, 30% less dmg from turrets, and they do 100% additional dmg to turrets. Also depending on which minion you buff, they get their own specific stat buffs. A siege minion will get 600 more HP, 100 more dmg, 100 more armor and 100 more armor resists.

That's a pretty huge buff IMO, compared to what it is now.

Z3Sleeper1 votes
MadViking3 votes

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-10% CDR. But it did gain that resistance buff which I think makes the active better? Overall their goal was to tone down the item. Never tried it on PBE.

The removal of the CDR hurt Yorick, but I think the overall changes make the item better for splitting and sieging.

The problem with Yorick right now is that he's weak without his ghouls, and his maiden. Maybe they need to buff his passive so he can get graves a little faster, and make Maiden stronger or decrease the CD. His ultimate is on a huge cool down at lower levels and it accounts for 70% of his dueling power.

DeathBurst1 votes

The minions already gained stats. It was just added to the tooltip for more clarity, but it's not a gameplay change. The only change to the active is the replacement of 100% magic resistance by 70% champion resistance. (Plus there are also a couple stat changes, but it's not the most important.)

Risen291 votes

The main thing Yorick needs is consistency in his summon's behavior. For many purposes they are treated as an extension of YorIck. Lifesteal you have will be applied to damage your summons deal. They count as being in combat for conqueror. They scale off your bonus damage and health.

But in other ways they arent consistent enough to perform properly. They dont deal true damage when you trigger conqueror. They dont update thier AD or health dynamically as Yorick does.

These are technical oversights that prevent Yorick from functioning properly with items and runes they design for juggernauts.

Since a huge portion of Yorick's damage is tied up in his summons he needs to be able to amp that damage in the same way other juggernauts can. Thats probably why they allowed summons to lifesteal in the first place. They must have realized it was unfair to reduce the effectiveness he gets from lifesteal items, compared to other juggernauts, simply because so much of his damage is offloaded into pets.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Ghouls don’t apply lifesteal outside of Death’s Dance. Maiden does though.

And do ghouls not deal true damage with conqueror? I never really looked to see if they were dealing it.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

Ghouls don’t apply lifesteal outside of Death’s Dance. Maiden does though.

And do ghouls not deal true damage with conqueror? I never really looked to see if they were dealing it.

You're right, I forgot. Thats what I mean about it being inconsistent and confusing, because ghouls do lifesteal off jungle monsters if you have a machete, but not normal lifesteal. And maiden apparently works with lifesteal despite being magic damage, but doesnt work with deaths dance because it's magic damage. But both will lifesteal with gunblade.

Convoluted.

I will go test conquerors later to be sure, but I thought it did not apply to ghouls. I wouldnt be surprised if it does apply to maiden given her unique rules, but then again I also wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt apply because of a coding or design oversight.

Risen292 votes

{quoted}

Ghouls don’t apply lifesteal outside of Death’s Dance. Maiden does though.

And do ghouls not deal true damage with conqueror? I never really looked to see if they were dealing it.

I tested it. It does apply conqueror but only if you summon the ghouls after it's triggered. But they don't appear to keep the conqueror buff after they stop attacking either. So it's not like you can even abuse this mechanic to get superpowered ghouls. The combination of both of those is probably why I never noticed it working with conqueror.

I can't tell if the Maiden procs it or not in the practice tool.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Ok I just tested too. They all proc Conqueror's true damage conversion even if they are summoned after it is procced. Ofcourse, ghouls being in combat means you are in combat so Conqueror stays active.

It's better than Grasp because of this imo, but I really wish it wasn't.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Ghouls don’t apply lifesteal outside of Death’s Dance. Maiden does though.

And do ghouls not deal true damage with conqueror? I never really looked to see if they were dealing it.

Maiden doesn't benefit from Death's Dance, only Yorick's Ghouls do as they are physical damage dealers. Gunblade adds some insane sustain to Yorick, especially with Conqueror due to the true damage.

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