"AD Mids are crowding out ap mids!" -Gameplay and #Balance

ForgiveColour··21 votes·1,819 views

Bans Zed

Suddenly all good mid lane picks are ap champions

61 Comments

KirbyCake9 votes

and then you still have corki mid

Victorious Udyr3 votes

{quoted}

and then you still have cancer reincarnate mid

ftfy

ForgiveColour2 votes

He does mostly magic damage and needs his package gutted

Abyssphere7 votes

{quoted}

He does mostly magic damage and needs his package gutted

Magic damage doesn't mean he isn't AD.

Hayaishi22 votes

{quoted}

Magic damage doesn't mean he isn't AD.

He even plays like a mage.

ForgiveColour2 votes

Corki can do like 100k Magic damage and 10k Attack damage and he will still be considered a AD champ by that dude. lol :^)

Abyssphere5 votes

{quoted}

Corki can do like 100k Magic damage and 10k Attack damage and he will still be considered a AD champ by that dude. lol :^)

That would be because Attack Damage the stat and physical damage the damage type are different things...?

People are complaining about AP being a weak stat, not magic damage being a weak type of damage. The fact that the best magic damage dealer in the mid lane scales off of AD is further evidence of the problem, not evidence against it. You are an idiot.

ForgiveColour1 votes

Then according to what you said the problem is corki lmao. You clearly have no idea what you are saying. Maybe you should stop playing aram and actually play some ranked against real players.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

Then according to what you said the problem is corki lmao. You clearly have no idea what you are saying. Maybe you should stop playing aram and actually play some ranked against real players.

I'm at home for the holidays right now and don't like playing serious games here. Not having played much ranked in the last few weeks doesn't mean I can't comment on balance.

I don't think you even know what your point is right now but that's not very surprising considering you don't even know what the difference between AD and physical damage is.

ForgiveColour1 votes

This is literally you: AP is weak because magic damage is strong ad is strong physical damage because is weak XDDDDDDDD If you don't understand my terribly stated shit that I'm talking about you're an idiot eckss deeee.

People identify champion by damage types not whatever the fuck you are saying.

The fact that the best magic damage dealer in the mid lane scales off of AD is further evidence of the problem, not evidence against it.

If that clearly doesn't tell you it's a champion problem then I don't even know what to say LOL

I bet so much that you are those people that say tanks are not tanks but are bruisers when they are broken and turns back to into unviable tanks after they get nerfed

Abyssphere2 votes

Literally me = "AD is strong". Please point me to any point where I said "magic damage is strong" or "physical damage is weak".

People identify champion by damage types not whatever the fuck you are saying.

Your own thread includes the words "AD mids" and every thread discussing this subject talks about the differences between AD and AP as stats, with relatively little discussion on physical vs magic damage. People are not, in this case, talking about damage type. If half of the game's AP mids did physical damage this discussion would still be happening.

If that clearly doesn't tell you it's a champion problem then I don't even know what to say LOL

It doesn't. It says that AD is a problem. It is an amusing indicator of how weak AP is that even if you decide your team needs some magic damage you are still best off using a champion that builds AD. AD is obviously best for physical damage and it's best for magic damage - that's a stat problem, not a champion problem. Corki is so strong right now because he is the only champion in the mid lane who allows you to deal magic damage without buying the inferior offensive stat - the fact that doing that is so valuable is down to AD being over the top.

Not replying to you any further, by the way. If you want to debate don't act like a child.

3TWarrior1 votes

looking at this again(I agreed at first) but actually, if mages did physical damage, AD would have very few options against them and would have to build defensive items instead of offensive items with great passives

but yeah, the guy has no idea what he is talking about

A Basic Island5 votes

Bru yasuo op he's picked like never but still forcing mid lanes out by sheer existence

Spicy Rice2 votes

have...you...ever played yasuo?

A Basic Island1 votes

Yes ez mode champ 10/10 don't play

darkmatchwaldo4 votes

Anyone who says Yasuo is busted definitely hasn't played him.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

I've played him. Yasuo is broken.

Broken =/= OP.

Spicy Rice1 votes

and how many games did it take you to figure out that yasuo is "broken"

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

About as many as it takes to get a handle on the champion.

Don't confuse that as being "good" with him though (Which I'm suspect is where you're taking this).

The problem with Yasuo isn't that he's necessarily strong or lacks counter-play. It's that he has more safety nets than a stunt double training school. A champion designed with core counter-play elements, shouldn't be able to ignore those elements. In Yasuo's case, he gets a free pass because he's hard to play. However, what it ultimately means is that you never actually have an avenue to use against him. Either HE wins or HE loses; you're just their to capitalize on HIS mistakes. (For another example of this, see Lee Sin.)

Spicy Rice1 votes

I wasn't implying that you had to be good with yasuo, its just that there is a world of difference between declaring that you are proficient after 5 games vs after 500. (hyperbole)

Hayaishi23 votes

{quoted}

have...you...ever played yasuo?

Are you implying Yasuo is strong right now? please.

Lauchmelder1 votes

Strong? Definitely. Overpowered? Not by far, 1 missplay sends you into useless states.

Spicy Rice1 votes

I was implying that the person that I responded to was overreacting to the strength of yasuo's kit

Woook3r2 votes

hes harder than you think he is, if youve never played him. And hes a lot easier than you think he is if you main him. His main source of difficulty is in the number of champions that can destroy him without mercy in lane and the expensive powerspike of ie and triforce, which he needs at some point. That doesnt make him difficult tho. It makes him awkward to play.

Spoofghoul2 votes

But being hard to master is hardly an excuse for being an overloaded toxic champion

And his expensive powerspike isnt as expensive as you think yes shiv + tri together is alot of gold but he gets a powerspike et every component

item 3086 powerspike item 3087 Big powerspike item 3086 powerspike item 3044 powerspike item 3057 small powerspike item 3078 Big powerspike

Might be expensive, well triforce is anyway. But he gets soooo many powerspikes along the way

And he has very good defense which makes it difficult to shut him down early on

He has so much mobility that trying to land skillshots is diffcult he can just dodge them Then he still has his passive, sure jsut 1 auto removes it, yet he loses no health while you take minion aggro. And if he can't dodge or block with passive windwall pops up. then its passive and dashes again untill windwall is back up

And then his opponent is oom

Then he keeps pushing whilst the opponent needs to back so he gets a small gold/xp lead and can go back to start rolling out the powerspikes 1 by 1

Only thing that works is excessive camping early on

ForgiveColour4 votes

truth hurts i know thats why no one is commenting

WarlockLaw8 votes

You're forgetting about Corki, Quinn, Talon and even Yasuo. Right now the only ap mids I'd consider to be good are Ahri and Lux.

ForgiveColour1 votes

LMAO you are literally just listing out ad champs that can be taken mid to back up your point. I can do the same with mine too. See how useless your comment is?

WarlockLaw6 votes

Those are champions generally considered to be strong right, or recently. I haven't seem anyone complain about another mid laner not on my list, plus Zed, in months. So no, my comment isn't useless. It points out the number of ad champs going mid vs the ap choices. Hell I'm actually glad Quinn isn't popular in soloq just for the extra diversity that brings.

YCitizenSnipsY1 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Middle

Mid laners shuffled by play percent. A whole two in the top ten, third one coming in at number 12. And you basically just pulled Quinn out of your ass, like the other guy said, just to name an AD champion to act like they are so prevalent in the mid lane.

WarlockLaw1 votes

Yet when I switch to role position the number goes up to 3, and it goes up further to 4 with ban percent. Lux and FIzz are the only ap champions to be in more than one of those top 10 lists. Meanwhile Zed and Corki are in all 3, and Yasuo is in 2 of them. Based on that I'd say ad seem to be slightly more prevalent mid. Oh, and it should be noted that Quinn does in fact appear in those lists, so no, I did not pull her out of my ass.

The only reason why ap mids haven't fully be phased out is because otherwise tanks would become unkillable, having to only itemize against one type of damage.

falloffreljord1 votes

Anivia seems like a good one vs ad mids(minus talon and zed but other than that its great

WarlockLaw1 votes

In my experience Anivia excels better vs melee champs, even Zed, than ranged champs because ranged champs can still kill her when she eggs near the tower.

falloffreljord1 votes

all zed has to do is ult and I'm screwed as anivia and his shadow jumping proves a huge problem vs my q skillshot same thing with talon jump to me and I'm practically helpless

WarlockLaw1 votes

Anivia with passive under turret is unlikable by melee assassins. And she has the wave clear to sit there

falloffreljord1 votes

you obviously don't know how I play anivia :P

Steel Blossom1 votes

Talon...? Even after his nerf?

1011001110001 votes

Good Talons can make it look like they're just face-rolling the keyboard to kill you.

Steel Blossom1 votes

So are you saying that a good Talon shouldn't be rewarded for knowing the champion?

1011001110001 votes

A good Talon is just as effective as, or even MORE effective then, Zed at killing people, while having inferior csing potential.

Talon can shut out a good number of Ap champions people would want to take mid, much like how good Yasuos can also shut out a good number of picks as well. Not to mention AD assassins aren't even the only annoying AD things in mid lane, since people also take champions like Varus and Ezreal just as easily.

Your argument that banning Zed means "all the remaining good midlane picks are AP" is just false outright. And even the remaining AD picks can be just as much of a bitch to deal with as Zed can be.

Steel Blossom1 votes

First of all I'm not supporting the OP. I'm just saying that Talon's pretty shitty compared to some other champions. He's lost a lot of his defining characteristics over the years, and he honestly isn't in a particularly good spot anymore. Talon also doesn't really counter anyone, aside from Veigar and MAYBE Vel'koz, if the Vel is shit at landing his E. Overall, I just don't understand how Talon can seem to have the same strength as Zed in the eyes of any competent player.

WarlockLaw1 votes

I've always considered Talon to be just below the cusp of being op due to the inability for an all in champ with no escape to be viable in competitive. He should have had some sort of nerf with the advent of duskblade imo. And this is coming from somebody who will randomly play Talon for like 3 days once a month.

Steel Blossom1 votes

I don't even know where to begin...his shitty early damage, his complete and utter lack of any form of sustain, his mediocre range, or the fact that he is the ONLY assassin with one gapcloser and no resets. I just don't understand what his strength is aside from a somewhat reliable rotation.

WarlockLaw1 votes

The reliable rotation is the problematic strength. He and Rengar are the only two assassins without any super efficient way to counterplay their burst. That's why they tend to get nerfed down whenever they start nearing competitive viability while the rest of the ad assassins are left alone for longer when meta.

Sure Zed is a lot safer, but he telegraphs when he wants to kill you and is all skillshots that are only hard to dodge when he or one of his shadows are melee.

Kha has easy to hit combos and a reset, but he has his damage massively gimped if he doesn't get his isolation bonus.

Yasuo is reliant on being able to get his ult off, and his tornado is easy to dodge.

Yi needs a lot of farm before he matters and doesn't have stealth for his approach.

Shaco only really works in soloq where the enemy team doesn't put pink wards out against him.

And that's really all of the ad assassins in the game (ignoring those that could easily be called fighters). Talon's reliable burst combo, which is almost impossible to dodge, he gets balanced in such a way that any significant numbers buff to his damage will drastically alter his winrate. As such Riot leaves him too low for competitive, where his lack of sustain and poor early wave clear are huge issues to overcome, but still high enough that he can perform decently in soloq.

Steel Blossom1 votes

And why does assassins need to give their target counterplay? Isn't that the entire purpose of the support, to peel the assassin off the ADC/AP? Isn't it the job of ranged squishies to NOT get caught alone?

WarlockLaw1 votes

Riot really like the concept of counter play during fights and doesn't really consider things like "don't get caught" or "ward better" or "counter picks" to be 'good' avenues of counter play. I can't really provide insight into why they choose to have those design philosophies, I only know they exist.

Steel Blossom1 votes

And that's honestly not fair.

WarlockLaw1 votes

Ironically, that's what they usually say when explaining their point of view

Steel Blossom1 votes

Yeah I guess they can run their game however they want. But it really takes the team out of this game when ADCs can do everything on their own--peel, dps enemy front line, and then take objectives.

Steel Blossom1 votes

I don't even know where to begin...his shitty early damage, his complete and utter lack of any form of sustain, his mediocre range, or the fact that he is the ONLY assassin with one gapcloser and no resets. I just don't understand what his strength is aside from a somewhat reliable rotation.

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