Lux is the Counter to Zed/Fizz and the Assassin Funky Bunch

Stonington··1 votes·1,682 views

The strategy is basically to play like a complete pussy during laning and outscale him with a shitton of utility and aoe damage in team fights. Deny him kills in lane and roaming and Lux wins by default.

In the same way Lulu has strong waveclear and can deny kills with her shield and ult. Lux denies assassins with her shield, which incidentally has higher base and ap scaling than Lulu's shield alone. So level it second. She's also incredibly safe in lane.

The way you want to farm is like this. You'll want to do is throw an E out in a place where it'll hit all the minions. Stand in between the E and the enemy laner and auto the minions before the E goes off. You typically don't want to detonate the E before the full time because of the zoning potential. You typically don't want to try and auto the minions after your E goes off because it'll give the enemy opportunities to attack or harass. Rarely will you actually want to harass the enemy laning by popping the E on them if it's not advantageous to your csing. Another thing you can do, if you can't zone the enemy is to detonate your E as a minion is about to die. Then throw an E on top of it to entirely clear the wave. If you're forced to farm like this you'll be down in CS to the enemy laner, but you can be down 30 cs at 20 minutes. It's ok, you deal so much AOE and have so much utility it doesn't matter.

The goal of laning isn't to kick the enemy out of lane or get a kill, it's to deny the assassin kills and farm up equal to or almost equal to you. If Zed wants to he will outpush you. So it's important to have good wave control. Or even freeze your wave(pre level 6) in front of your tower. It's easy to freeze due to the Lux shield. The less risk you take the better. It's also incredibly important to let your side laners know when an assassin has left the lane. Spam the shit out of that ping. Also, always have a pink in the river or around flank spots. Even if you break even in lane and deny him kills on you, he still might get fed on side laners.

If you're vs an AP assassin, GREAT! Buy a chalice on your first back and you're gucci. If you're vs Zed or Talon, I've been building doran ring and clothe plus hp/mana pots on my first back and second back. You'll need that second doran ring for mana regen and crucially it'll give you extra HP if he wants to try to burst you down and the jungler tries to gank. Then you get your armguard into chalice.

Never upgrade the chalice. Sure CDR is great on Lux, you know what's even better? Damage. You won't need the cdr until you have respectable damage. Once you get a needlessly large rod you get both a huge shield and the damage you'll need to actually start poking people to the point they'll feel it. Until you get a deathcap or hourglass and voidstaff there's absolutely no need to upgrade your chalice. If you upgrade it early you'll be delaying your power spike and giving the assassin time to roam and get fed.

27 Comments

Leti the Yeti4 votes

holy shit, this is what I tell everyone er not that Lux is a zed/fizz counter but

The goal of laning isn't to kick the enemy out of lane or get a kill, it's to deny the assassin kills and farm up equal to or almost equal to you.

like wtf, why cant more people be like that? I play as though I'm Nasus if im up against such notorious assassins

Kuroi862 votes

This ^^^

Mages excel in team fights, assassins excel in 1v1 fights. Don't fight to their advantage.

A Wild AP Sona2 votes

Ex #2 lux world stats checking in I rush morello/mejais/athenes/sorc boots

umad?

fizz/zed hard counter lux 1v1 but honestly the most tricky thing is convincing your teammates to listen to your pings because they never do even in the highest elos

lux is amazing late game but awful early/mid game so she is basically nasus tier

Stonington1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfILtmxc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-09T05:08:23.126+0000)

Ex #2 lux world stats checking in I rush morello/mejais/athenes/sorc boots

umad?

fizz/zed hard counter lux 1v1 but honestly the most tricky thing is convincing your teammates to listen to your pings because they never do even in the highest elos

lux is amazing late game but awful early/mid game so she is basically nasus tier

Go on, explain how Zed and Fizz hard counter Lux. I've gone into detail to the contrary. I think all your points are wrong. But I'm more than willing to hear your rationale.

A Wild AP Sona2 votes

{quoted}

Go on, explain how Zed and Fizz hard counter Lux. I've gone into detail to the contrary. I think all your points are wrong. But I'm more than willing to hear your rationale.

because their kits can easily dodge lux skillshots and destroy her 1v1 without even trying they can also dive her quite easily at her turret even if she has significant health so there is basically always a certain amount of danger when laning vs them that there normally isnt vs other mid laners

fizz/zed/yasuo are about the hardest possible counters to lux

Stonington1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfILtmxc,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-09T05:26:29.326+0000)

because their kits can easily dodge lux skillshots and destroy her 1v1 without even trying they can also dive her quite easily at her turret even if she has significant health so there is basically always a certain amount of danger when laning vs them that there normally isnt vs other mid laners

fizz/zed/yasuo are about the hardest possible counters to lux

That's the least amount of detail you can come up with. It's almost like you didn't read the post. You never try to snare the enemy, you use your snare as a counter to their abilities. To go even further into detail.

If Fizz slides onto you, you shield the damage and get him off of you with E. If he troll poles away from your E damage, you use your Q. At level 6 you should never be in range of his slide unless you're in range of your tower. If you are in his range, you're dead. When he goes to farm you throw your E out as you'll outrange his slide. If you're at your tower and he dives you he won't be able to 100-0 you with chalice, shield, and heal. It simply won't be possible. In fact you probably won't even need heal.

Zed is even easier. If you ults you, you Q him and get off a full combo. Typically Zeds know they can't ult you when your Q is up so they never even try.

A Wild AP Sona1 votes

{quoted}

That's the least amount of detail you can come up with. It's almost like you didn't read the post. You never try to snare the enemy, you use your snare as a counter to their abilities. To go even further into detail.

If Fizz slides onto you, you shield the damage and get him off of you with E. If he troll poles away from your E damage, you use your Q. At level 6 you should never be in range of his slide unless you're in range of your tower. If you are in his range, you're dead. When he goes to farm you throw your E out as you'll outrange his slide. If you're at your tower and he dives you he won't be able to 100-0 you with chalice, shield, and heal. It simply won't be possible. In fact you probably won't even need heal.

Zed is even easier. If you ults you, you Q him and get off a full combo. Typically Zeds know they can't ult you when your Q is up so they never even try.

whatever makes you feel better

a good zed/fizz/yasuo will always beat lux in lane unless they suffer from downs you have not faced any real players on them yet obviously

infact a level 2 yasuo/zed/fizz will intentionally all in lux becasue of their early game being vastly superior to lux

  • source about 600 ranked games as lux with current #4 (used to be #2 lux stats world til quit)
Stonington1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfILtmxc,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-09T06:19:38.800+0000)

whatever makes you feel better

a good zed/fizz/yasuo will always beat lux in lane unless they suffer from downs you have not faced any real players on them yet obviously

Go ahead, by all means explain why I'm wrong and what type of laning interaction would happen. Please.

I've never died to level 2-3 all in by those champs. Most of the time I stack the minions so they push into me early on and freeze the lane at my tower. If they do, I usually snare them in the minion wave and win the trade with an auto and creep damage. If it's Yasuo I take shield second and just walk away taking minimal damage and hit a pot.

He's annoying because of his windwall though.

Leti the Yeti4 votes

Cuz they would walk up to yuo and beat your ass while dodging all your shit cuz shadows and troll pole If you flee as they come to you, it seems like you're the one being zoned now

Lux is literally all skillshots and who's better at doding skillshots than Fizz

Stonington1 votes

{quoted}

Cuz they would walk up to yuo and beat your ass while dodging all your shit cuz shadows and troll pole If you flee as they come to you, it seems like you're the one being zoned now

Lux is literally all skillshots and who's better at doding skillshots than Fizz

Why are you letting a melee walk up to you and auto you? In what world is that happening? When they go to farm you throw your E and farm yourself. It's rather simple.

Why would you throw your Q before he used his troll pole? Take a look at my previous response to A Wild AP Sona for more in depth back and forth between the champs in question.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

its not a matter of whether or not you let it happen they can do whatever they godamm please, if they want to walk up to you.. thats their choice and they are ust going to do it you can respond to it of course.. but however it may be that you would respond to such a simple act, It is well within their kits to render it null and void come on, just about every mid lane mage has absurd range, that never stopped Fizz and Zed before now has it? bringing up "oh, but ur not suppose to in range" bullshit, thats fking every mid laner

it can go both ways, Why would fizz troll pole if you arent going to throw a snare or ult why would you throw a snare of ult before he troll poles.. ONE OF YOU is going to give in

A Wild AP Sona1 votes

{quoted}

its not a matter of whether or not you let it happen they can do whatever they godamm please, if they want to walk up to you.. thats their choice and they are ust going to do it you can respond to it of course.. but however it may be that you would respond to such a simple act, It is well within their kits to render it null and void come on, just about every mid lane mage has absurd range, that never stopped Fizz and Zed before now has it? bringing up "oh, but ur not suppose to in range" bullshit, thats fking every mid laner

it can go both ways, Why would fizz troll pole if you arent going to throw a snare or ult why would you throw a snare of ult before he troll poles.. ONE OF YOU is going to give in

this sounds alot like yasuo getting 999999999 dashs around lane at level 1

Leti the Yeti1 votes

well, yasuo has a win wall for lux .- . yup.. win wall

Stonington1 votes

{quoted}

its not a matter of whether or not you let it happen they can do whatever they godamm please, if they want to walk up to you.. thats their choice and they are ust going to do it you can respond to it of course.. but however it may be that you would respond to such a simple act, It is well within their kits to render it null and void come on, just about every mid lane mage has absurd range, that never stopped Fizz and Zed before now has it? bringing up "oh, but ur not suppose to in range" bullshit, thats fking every mid laner

it can go both ways, Why would fizz troll pole if you arent going to throw a snare or ult why would you throw a snare of ult before he troll poles.. ONE OF YOU is going to give in

This adds absolutely no depth to the discussion. You're talking in complete abstracts and can't counter any of my specific points. Probably because you lack the understanding of the lane matchup.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

Cuz I find it silly we are going over hypothetical situations

Fizz walks up to you Lux either walks away and get zoned like a lil bitch or throws out her slow, assuming its not on CD cuz you tossed at some minions or throw a snare Fizz may proceed to either Q to you or a minion by you and proceed to stab your eyes out your shield might stop just 1 AA, % health damage and miniature ignite will till hurt you a shit ton and dodge everything you have left with troll pole while damaging you some more Q away onto some minion dodge your remaining skills

in an actual match, anything can fuqing happen, and its definitely not in lux's favor

Stonington1 votes

{quoted}

Cuz I find it silly we are going over hypothetical situations

Fizz walks up to you Lux either walks away and get zoned like a lil bitch or throws out her slow, assuming its not on CD cuz you tossed at some minions or throw a snare Fizz may proceed to either Q to you or a minion by you and proceed to stab your eyes out your shield might stop just 1 AA, % health damage and miniature ignite will till hurt you a shit ton and dodge everything you have left with troll pole while damaging you some more Q away onto some minion dodge your remaining skills

in an actual match, anything can fuqing happen, and its definitely not in lux's favor

I'll just quote myself because I've addressed all these points. Your job is to -counter- the points.

If Fizz slides onto you, you shield the damage and get him off of you with E. If he troll poles away from your E damage, you use your Q. At level 6 you should never be in range of his slide unless you're in range of your tower. If you are in his range, you're dead. When he goes to farm you throw your E out as you'll outrange his slide. If you're at your tower and he dives you he won't be able to 100-0 you with chalice, shield, and heal. It simply won't be possible. In fact you probably won't even need heal.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

yep, and i still find that dumb

every mage out ranges Fizz they have some skill shot CC they ahve AA well over 500 and spell range 1000~ these traits are not unique to Lux, yet it has been demonstrated repeatedly, tis not fuqing enough so you bringing up such a blatanly obvious point like "stay outa range or your dead" is not convincing at all people are not that dumb

I actually made that scenario up with what you quoted in mind I am well aware that this lux is ideally, always out of range closing this gap is not limited to using Q or E you dont really take into account the simple idea that.. HEY WHAT IF FIZZ JUST WALKS UP TO YOU, he really can.. his move speed is much aster than yours and ignores unit collison and your spell slinging is not really enuff, and walking away just causes you to be zoned

Stonington1 votes

{quoted} you dont really take into account the simple idea that.. HEY WHAT IF FIZZ JUST WALKS UP TO YOU, he really can.. his move speed is much aster than yours and ignores unit collison

Fizz's MS is 335, Lux's is 330. I'm done talking to you.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

naw, dont be like that i always found discussing theoretical events with you to be totally bullshit too but that never stopped me :D not like u ever address my non bullshit points lol

soh1gh21 votes

i thought elise was zeds hard counter

WhereTheNamesAt1 votes

getting fed as lux is the most fun thing in this game. There is just nothing like having the ability to Q-Ult people and watch them just disappear. And also having the ability to spam it cuz it has a 30 sec cooldown. Ohh the lulz I have with this

JJI7441 votes

The problem with your plan is basically the same as Nasus top (worse since you are mid), you tell your team to play a 4V5 while you play passive and farm. Even if your teammates don't die to the roaming assassin (which is an almost heroic feat for bot-lane.) they are going to be pressured and fall behind their lane-opponents.

You bank on

A) your team being able to 4V5 without falling too far behind B) you being able to carry your slightly weakened team.

Stonington1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with your plan is basically the same as Nasus top (worse since you are mid), you tell your team to play a 4V5 while you play passive and farm. Even if your teammates don't die to the roaming assassin (which is an almost heroic feat for bot-lane.) they are going to be pressured and fall behind their lane-opponents.

You bank on

A) your team being able to 4V5 without falling too far behind B) you being able to carry your slightly weakened team.

Actually it's more like the way you play Orianna mid. You farm until you get your core items and deal damage. But here's why it's completely different than playing Nasus top. It's actually kinda laughable to compare the two, but ok.

  1. Nasus is trying to freeze a lane and stack up a Q for 20 minutes. If they roam there's nothing preventing Lux from pushing the tower ASAP. In fact, you're naturally always pushing fairly hard with your E. If they roam and can't immediately get a gank off, they're going to lose significant farm and they'll take a lot of tower damage.

  2. No one's saying don't help your jungler if he's being screwed with in the jungle or give up dragons. You still help your team like any other mid laner before you get your items. I'm describing how you deal with your mediocre to bad laning phase.

  3. You can also easily tell which lane is most likely to be ganked and when an enemy has left lane since it's mid lane. Top lane it's tough to tell since sometimes the enemy laner will hang back and wait for the lane to push into you.

  4. I can't tell you how many times junglers gank me when I'm playing Lux into an assassin. It's like clockwork, they show up at level 6 and try to dive you. You can't always count on your jungler to counter gank, although my junglers almost always do. In any event you'll stay alive long enough to full combo them and snare. You'll at least pick up one kill. Just like A Wild AP Sona says, 'Lux is countered' nearly everyone -thinks- you're countered and it draws attention to your lane, when in reality you counter the enemy. A lot of times the assassin will try and wait for you to make a mistake that'll never happen. Like you'll get bored and throw a Q out randomly. Or you won't shield a shuriken.

AccountaBilabudy1 votes

Lux can beat Fizz and Zed I agree. But Yasuo is another story. Yasuo straight up counters Lux.

Stonington1 votes

So I'm being downvoted, which is fine. But as of yet, the only reason I've been given to being wrong is that 'good assassins are magical and will beat you, because they'll beat you.'

Does anyone have some well reasoned out arguments? Bonus points for proper grammar and spelling.

futuresight231 votes

What you describe in your post is called pulling even and assuming you execute better than the other guy in mid to late game team fights. I would argue that when you bring up the word 'counter' in the post title, most people would assume counter is more along the lines of beats X champion in lane.

Reading the post, it seems like it all applies to another champion would be better suited for pulling this strategy off. I am talking about Orianna. While her shield isn't as potentially powerful as Lux's, it does give resistances and doesn't have the risk of missing her intended target like the Lux shield can.

Stonington1 votes

{quoted}

What you describe in your post is called pulling even and assuming you execute better than the other guy in mid to late game team fights. I would argue that when you bring up the word 'counter' in the post title, most people would assume counter is more along the lines of beats X champion in lane.

Reading the post, it seems like it all applies to another champion would be better suited for pulling this strategy off. I am talking about Orianna. While her shield isn't as potentially powerful as Lux's, it does give resistances and doesn't have the risk of missing her intended target like the Lux shield can.

That's a good point. I can see what you mean. In the case of, lets say Lux vs Zyra, if they both farm equally and neither kill the other one. I would say they've broken even during laning phase as both champ is equally useful past that point.

I don't agree that you break even when you deny an assassin kills though. Especially Zed. The objective, even the necessity of the assassin is to snowball. Akali and Katarina get get by laning phase without snowballing and still do crazy things during team fights. It's true, if you miss your sheild those assassin can give your team a bad time.

But champs like Zed and Fizz crucially need items to snowball. Fizz is barely able to farm mid game and Zed is literally useless once you get hourglass and there are armour items on your team. Even if Zed has perfect farm at 20 minutes in, he'll still have a super hard time blowing up an ADC if he hasn't snowballed. Zed's usefulness is on an timer, the longer you go into the game the less useful he is. So denying him kills by taking heal/exhuast providing shields, snares, and an aoe slow during a team fight basically renders him useless.

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