Allowing 5 man parties in ranked is a bad idea

Stonington··71 votes·4,629 views

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/2016-season-update/ranked-improvements.html

They call it 'dynamic groups'. Essentially they're going to allow 2-5 players to party together in ranked. While they -say- they're going to try to match 5 man stacks with other 5 man stacks, we all know this doesn't always happen in unranked games. The teams that have more players queued together will almost invariably be on voice chat and have an unfair advantage against teams that aren't queued up together.

47 Comments

Bârd27 votes

5 man is fine.

4 man is a problem

Xenogenesis091 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Em33Y2ts,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-04T01:21:06.770+0000)

5 man is fine.

4 man is a problem

This is so true. Even if it's a 4+1 vs a 4+1 (so in theory a fair fight) it's going to suck to be the one on either team due to trolls.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

See all of Rito's posts about not putting in client voice chat in the game because multiple people in voice chat w/ some not makes for more negative behavior......

"Hey guys, let's change ranked to do something we have found in studies to create more toxic players and bad experiences. Our player base should love that, right?"

t0ad58 votes

This is the worst thing from them to date.... and, lately, that is saying A LOT.

Epicusmaximo7 votes

The stupid amazes me tonight. You realize, a team of 5 will be placed against a team of 5 right? There's no way they'll place 4 vs 5 in a ranked environment.

Honestly, how old are you and what's your education level? I'm honestly curious.

Quietscream5 votes

{quoted}

The stupid amazes me tonight. You realize, a team of 5 will be placed against a team of 5 right? There's no way they'll place 4 vs 5 in a ranked environment.

Honestly, how old are you and what's your education level? I'm honestly curious.

ya cause when you solo Q, you never vs a duo Q? When u normal solo, you never play 3+2vs3+2 or 1+4vs2+3 and whatever mixups. RIGHT? Being the wolf in the 1+4 makes a lot of sense in a competitive Q.

Epicusmaximo3 votes

{quoted}

ya cause when you solo Q, you never vs a duo Q? When u normal solo, you never play 3+2vs3+2 or 1+4vs2+3 and whatever mixups. RIGHT? Being the wolf in the 1+4 makes a lot of sense in a competitive Q.

Because your experience in soloQ will traverse into the new system.

nods

You're what I like to refer to as "Legion"

Stonington6 votes

so if you're in a premade five, there's a 95% chance you'll run into another premade five

This is what the announcement says.

Kat Head7 votes

{quoted}

This is what the announcement says.

That means there is a 5% chance you will be utterly and completely fcked.

Worst idea from Riot ever.

Demonsolder215 votes

Rip solo queue.

Bayirdacus4 votes

Is it really much different than the chances of some smurf coming along and completely demolishing your team? I think there are so many variables that it is completely asinine to try to predict what will be going on. That 5% is a combined total between a 5 man team being matched with a 4+1, 3+2, 3+1+1, 2+2+1, 2+1+1+1, and 1+1+1+1+1. If you think it won't be weighted toward the more fair side of things, you are simply blinded by your desire to be mad at everything Riot does.

Kat Head1 votes

{quoted}

Is it really much different than the chances of some smurf coming along and completely demolishing your team? I think there are so many variables that it is completely asinine to try to predict what will be going on. That 5% is a combined total between a 5 man team being matched with a 4+1, 3+2, 3+1+1, 2+2+1, 2+1+1+1, and 1+1+1+1+1. If you think it won't be weighted toward the more fair side of things, you are simply blinded by your desire to be mad at everything Riot does.

I could not disagree more with you. Duo queue is already the worst aspect of ranked game play. This makes ranked an even worse experience for the solo player and forces them to begin to queue in groups or to find a new game to play.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Or just play normals. No one is MAKING you play ranked.

XaviorZeroBlazer2 votes

better than now

Atum641 votes

Or maybe that 1 extra person you get on you're 4 premade actually carries the game. I mean we are talking about 1/20 games that your might or might not lose. There are much bigger issues to worry about.

RisenDarkKnight3 votes

No. Riot said they will be placed against another team of 5 95% of the time. Meaning 5% of the time they won't. And those percentages probably very from game to game, based on how many premades/solo players qued at once. It's rough if you end up going against a 5 man on voice chat in your promos.

Archon X5 votes

not clear on why they are allowing 5 man queues, it would be essentially ranked 5s but for a solo queue rank?

But Im Nunu1 votes

It's a bit different because you have to play with people around your rank in 5 man solo queue compare to whatever rank you want in an actual team. Also, in an actual team, they say that the rank would focus more on the team's ability to work together (since you are guaranteed to go against another "premade") whereas in "solo queue" it's more on you.

OP is trying to say that there's a chance a 5 man "solo queue" (uh...quintet queue?) would be matched up against a non-5-man queue. So instead of the individual player's skills, it's a cooperation vs chaos. However, similarly to how an actual team is, sometimes you simply cannot work with your premade. Whether it's just someone having a bad day or whatever. So you do take a risk, albeit a really really small one, when teaming up with others on your YoloQ endeavors.

Niaphim1 votes

Still, it's very unbalanced, as even a few games together get you a substantial advantage. Also, 5-man teams in both modes are the same: you take 5 people and play this game. Period.

But Im Nunu1 votes

The fact that there are 5 players on a team is, of course, the same for both modes. However, like I said, with "solo queue" 5 man, you can only play with players of similar ranks (similar to how right now you can only duo with someone near your rank). With a team ranked, you can play with any rank.

As Snake said above, people can just smurf to "solo queue" with their friends; however, even now duo queue partners (and other solo players) can do that. Not saying it's a good and well system, but it is what it is how.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

People don't seem to grasp the fact that team 5s is a SUPER flawed system since it is very easy to get matched up against diamonds if your entire team is silver/gold since the matchmaking for ranked 5s completely ignores solo queue mmr.

The Queen Viper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=But Im Nunu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Em33Y2ts,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-04T03:14:41.778+0000)

It's a bit different because you have to play with people around your rank in 5 man solo queue compare to whatever rank you want in an actual team.

... unless you have a smurf account.

But Im Nunu1 votes

People could already be smurfing. Even now, you may get a team with 3 diamond smurfs vs a team of all bronze or something.

The Queen Viper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=But Im Nunu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Em33Y2ts,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-04T20:18:15.678+0000)

People could already be smurfing.

Yeah... so better create a system that lets people abuse smurffing even more, right?

[{quoted}](name=But Im Nunu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Em33Y2ts,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-04T20:18:15.678+0000)

Even now, you may get a team with 3 diamond smurfs vs a team of all bronze or something.

Sure it's possible, but very unlikely due to the fact that currently those diamond smurfs would have to be on the same queue at the exact same time and in the same exact elo range.

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Em33Y2ts,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-04T01:20:36.065+0000)

not clear on why they are allowing 5 man queues, it would be essentially ranked 5s but for a solo queue rank?

this it makes no sense

Caytheles5 votes

I like the idea personally

Captainn Ginyu4 votes

iv won team games with out voice chat through pings so i fail to see why everyone thinks this is such a bad thing

GastonBarnacles3 votes

A new level of getting carried... a bronze could get carried to diamond by 4 friends.

Pikmints4 votes

They did say that "You'll still need to be of similar rank to your queue-buddies..." So that's not going to happen. It's most likely going to keep the same system where people need to be within one rank, so a Bronze could at best only get carried by 4 Silvers.

The Queen Viper2 votes

Ever heard of Smurfs?

It's funny how people have complained years about how duoQ and smurfs are ruining and skewing the matches, at least in lower elo... and now they allow people to skew the matches even more.

:D , gotta love RITO and their listening skills.

Pikmints2 votes

People seem to be throwing the 5% they read around willy-nilly without realizing the emphasis of it. This isn't, "One in twenty of your solo queue games will be against a premade 5," but rather it's, "If a premade 5 plays twenty games, odds are one of those games will be against a non-premade 5," that being them matched against either a "4+1" a "3+2" or even a "3+1+1" on slower days, not the "5 vs 1+1+1+1+1" that everyone's shouting as if it will be a common occurrence.

Let's also remember that it's not going to be a consistent percent across all ranks. The majority of the NA playerbase is in Bronze & Silver, so premades in that tier are more likely to play against premade 5 groups since there's a larger pool of players to match together/against. The majority of the players, on NA at least, are not likely to run against uneven teams because of the large pool of players at lower tiers. Once you'd look at the higher ranks you'd see that they are the ones more likely to run into the "5 premade vs 4+1" games. Combine this with the fact that they're still keeping the condition that the people you queue with have to be a similar rank to you and you realize that you're far more likely to run into either "3+1+1" or "2+1+1+1", the latter already a possibility on live. And even with that last part, they stated that the penalty of queuing with a teammate will no longer apply, so getting a "2+1+1+1" next season won't be as bad as it was for previous seasons.

Is a team of 5 people more likely to win against a 4+1 assuming they're the same skill, yes. Was this a problem we had to deal with in previous seasons, no. But the way people are talking about it makes it seem like people expect there to be a premade in every game, when in reality we're only supposed to expect a small bump in non-solos in ranked. If they made the queue with friends bonus similar to the bonus party IP, I figure that people will consider that a negligible bonus to playing with friends since nobody talks about that and it's never a thought when I see my friends on. In fact, with the keys coming, you get an increased chance to benefit from the system if you win, meaning that queuing with a friend that you know isn't going to help you win much may end up costing you not only the win, but a chunk of the benefits that go with it.

And to chime in with my personal experience regarding the toxicity everyone's expecting from premades, I don't know how all of you choose your friends, but I've removed people from my friends list that I knew in real life because they were toxic. I know toxic people are less likely to stay focused, so I wouldn't want to go into ranked with them knowing that they may turn defeatist after a single misplay. If you're in a ranked game with one of your friends and they're being toxic, you don't have to confront them or stop talking to them in real life, just don't enter ranked games with them. Play an ARAM, Team Builder, or Draft match if your friend can't manage themselves. Since I tend to actively avoid mob mentality and am willing to cut people out of my life on a moment's notice that may be a little easier for me to do than others, but there's a simple golden rule that everyone knows and they choose whether they follow. So I hold strangers and friends to very similar standards, if they don't care about others I won't care about them.

TLDR (despite you benefiting from reading it all) - I expect next season's ranked to be very similar to this season's. People are taking the small percent chance of something bad happening and acting like it will be a common occurrence and a far worse one than the reality of the situation would make it. In fact, because the ability for us to choose two roles to queue for will be coming, I won't have to worry about the "X or feed" popping up as much, or even having my preferred roles taken by the pick priority which was entirely out of my control.

Note: Downvotes are not used in boards so that you can show that you disagree with people, likewise upvotes are not designed to show that you agree. Their intent is to promote discussion with the most useful posts appearing at the top, even if they are incorrect.

Kat Head4 votes

{quoted} out of my control.

Why would a pre made 5 ever even want to queue solo queue ?

The answer is as simple as why people duo, they want the unfair advantage it provides them.

Rankings in solo queue will mean nothing if this change goes live.

Pikmints1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kat Head,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Em33Y2ts,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2015-11-04T17:05:27.043+0000)

Why would a pre made 5 ever even want to queue solo queue ?

The answer is as simple as why people duo, they want the unfair advantage it provides them.

Until next season, duoing will have always placed a handicap on the team with the duo. Duoing has always presented two situations to the team with the duo, that the two are able to communicate with each other better, and that they will be matched with higher skill opponents to compensate. Duos have a very negative connotation as of now, meaning that people currently perceive the downsides of a duo to be more of a weight on the outcome of a game than the positives. Duoing currently provides no benefit that isn't outweighed by the negatives.

When people will decide to go into a ranked queue as a premade 5, they're not going to be at a distinct advantage because there's a 95% chance that they'll be facing another premade 5. There is that 5% chance that it won't match them against another premade 5, but as I explained in my first post the advantage that the premade 5 team will have will be far less of an impact than people believe since they're going to still be matched against other premades for that once every twenty games occurrence.

Rankings in solo queue will mean nothing if this change goes live.

Again, since they're keeping the requirement that people going into a ranked queue that isn't Ranked Teams will still need to be within one rank, rank will still matter. If you want your Diamond friend to carry you through ranked, you'll need to get to at least Platinum to do that. Even then, the Diamond player is willingly handicapping his mostly Diamond team by taking someone that hasn't proven themselves to be good enough to place themselves into Diamond against what's most likely an all Diamond enemy team. Even if we look at this concern from at out-of-game perspective, people with a higher rank at the end of a season still get better rewards so being higher rank in both the old and new system will still mean something.

Kat Head2 votes

{quoted}

Until

The game mode is called SOLO QUEUE, placing teams into a solo experience will absolutely ruin any sense of accurate balance and ranking. Duo has long skewed ranks, or do you really believe all those diamond 5 people just leveled off at diamond 5.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Was* called solo queue. IIRC it will probably just be called ranked team builder period.

Stonington4 votes

Riot claims it's a 5% chance, but from personal experience as an avid lolnexus user, they always said they 'tried' to match 5 mans vs 5 mans in normals. From experience, I would say unfair premade matches happened far more often than fair matchings.

Quietscream1 votes

Comment in all the threads already up, let's get the party starting

captainkaiger1 votes

Not me and my group of people I play with. Half the time we put each-other on tilt.

Demonsolder211 votes

Come on Riot hear us dammit.

Sojs1 votes

best idea they have ever had

im really not sure how anyone could object to this

especially in higher elos it will make things much better, instead of being forced to play with people you hate and have on ignore you get to play with people you want

The Queen Viper1 votes

{quoted}

best idea they have ever had im really not sure how anyone could object to this

You are joking, right? Or just too stupid to see what the repercussions are?

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Or you are too blinded by the astronomically low percentage of something bad happening compared to the complete upgrade this is to the current system.

The Queen Viper1 votes

Well, as long as you acknowledge the fact that we high elo players have no incentive whatsoever to play normal games with our lower elo friends anymore... since we can just fire up our smurf account and play Ranked with them as a small premade group without going into Ranked 5's. And that will probably destroy any balance that is left in the Ranked queue but people don't seem to care... it's about being social now.

So I only hope you are going to enjoy this new Normal Draft 2.0 queue since it will not be balanced in any way.

Boulderox1 votes

ranked 5's is already there isn't it?

4 + 1 i can understand the problem...

3 i have been dying for, i have two friends that ranked and I can't join half the time because currently you can only solo or duo queue.

Urgonnalearn2day1 votes

Agreed.

Tomatò1 votes

its fine

Svolski1 votes

Just because you don't have 4 friends doesn't mean you should complain. I don't play ranked BECAUSE I can't make a 5 man team of buddies; why should I trust toxic strangers in a game so dependent on teamwork like this one?

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