Give Magus Enchant Mana Regen

Stonington·Jan 28, 2015·22 votes·1,448 views

AP champs took a pretty hard hit to their mana regen with the removal of the spirit items. Most notably to Malzahar since he uses his crab to tank the camps and doesn't get the passive mana regen from the jungle item. In any event, it hurts all the AP champs that rely on clearing camps with their spells. It's basically impossible to build a mana regen item on a jungler.

I suggest removing 10% cdr and give the item mana regen. Trying to keep the item at the same price, if you removed 10%cdr, you could either give it a flat 50% mana regen or 25% mana regen and restore 1%(1.5%) of missing mana per 5.

15 Comments

ErockandrollJan 28, 20155 votes

Not to mention that you still have Blue buff at your disposal. You can chose not go give it to your mid laner. Usually I would do this if My mid was a Yasuo or Zed. Which explains why I chose a mage Jungle in the first place.

I kinda like the Niche aspect of giving CDR and AP without being tied to regen.

Tis a nice dayJan 28, 20154 votes

As much as this makes sense, giving Magus mp regen also makes it an uncomfortable item for any non-mana AP junglers. I can't say there are any core mana-free AP junglers atm, but it's nice to keep options open.

StoningtonJan 28, 20152 votes

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As much as this makes sense, giving Magus mp regen also makes it an uncomfortable item for any non-mana AP junglers. I can't say there are any core mana-free AP junglers atm, but it's nice to keep options open.

This doesn't make sense to me. This is the comparison I'm hearing. Making the item considerably better for all AP champs(lets say they're at least 20 viable AP jungle mana champs) is less important than making sure the 6 manaless AP champs (only 3 of which can actually jungle, only one of which is actually viable, Zac) can use all the stats.

NorthernDruidJan 29, 20151 votes

So nerf niche jungle picks which don't rely on or need mana regen on their enchant to function, instead of giving more viable alternatives with mana regen in a way that allows all mages to have more diverse builds.

It's not that I would mind mana hungry AP junglers getting some extra regen, but I don't see why the item should be nerfed for my niche Jungle Akali when the problem is more general and not tied to bad jungle items, but lackluster mana regen options in general (few items with more than 50% and high AP, and most of the mana regen items are support items) and especially the lack of mana regen items you can have half-finished in your inventory for a while (the only good half-built item you can comfortably land on is item 3028 and with the strong nerfs to it's passive...)

The real factor is that we need more non-support strong AP items with at least decent mana regen. And more creative ways of getting more mana back.

If they're gonna do something about mana regen, do it globally and not just AP junglers.

Another consequence is that tying the AP jungle enchant to fulfilling the mana regen slot for junglers means they're effectively blocking themselves from creating new non-mana AP junglers. Not completely, but they have to be designed with not taking the y'know AP jungle enchant or with wasting gold on mana regen which doesn't benefit them.

Before someone comes in and points this out, doesn't mana regen translate to energy regen? (making it not as wasted though Energy champs (other than Shen) never have energy problems) Or am i confusing things with Dragon Age: Origins now?

7ha7guy777Jan 28, 20151 votes

for a second, i forgot Malz could jungle while building ap. i always went AD and got a tear... then again, i rarely jungle

TheMontrealBagelJan 28, 20151 votes

Malzahar's E refund mana on target kill.

OrangesilkJan 28, 20151 votes

Jungle Diana needs this desperately. She needs her W when clearing not to get bashed in, but then you're OOM after a few camps.

ChessburgerJan 28, 20151 votes

I like gragas, same problem. Amumu has a similair problem because his gank costs so much (80-120 mana depending on rank for Q and 100/150/200 for R - you effectively use 285 mana for Q R E and 8 mana/s on W, while you usually use 1 - 3 E's in a gank which adds up to around 435 mana at lvl 11 while your mana pool sits at around 700. Nevermind the fact that in a skirmish you usually use Q twice so that's pretty much a full mana bar. You basically mustn't farm even 1 small camp if you intend to gank bot or countergank a lane because you will lose the duel. Such strategic diversity this brings I'm sure)

I wouldn't have a problem between the trade-off of farming multiple camps or ganking IF other AA reliant junglers and manaless/resourceless junglers had a meaningful trade-off for being able to do both and basically being doubly efficient comparatively. Coincidentally they have comparable or EVEN STRONGER ganks.

junglerboy16Jan 28, 20151 votes

it is already really strong because of how cost efficient it is, and if they gave it regen, they would probably nerf it for no real reason.

ChessburgerJan 28, 20152 votes

It is cost efficient, but the ad item is better. It has penetration and it increases your farming speed due to AAs. The magus enchant only exponentiates the mana problem because it gives you faster cooldowns and no mana back. Seriously at around 7-15mins into the game without blue you can only farm 2 camps and have barely enough (usually lacking 1 spell) mana to gank a lane as an ap jungler. That is mightily innefficient. Who can defend backing every 2 camps + a gank (even if you don't take damage) is viable when you have manaless or less mana intensive (AA reliant) champions who can basically live in the jungle and come out to gank whenever they please after a certain amount of time, and have the option to give blue to mid lane.

ChessburgerJan 28, 20151 votes

Agreed. Cut off 10% of the cdr and give it some mana back mechanic akin to old spectral wraith item so laners don't end up buying it. Right now every single ap jungler I can think of is gated by mana so hard they usually tend to run out even with a blue buff if they farm. There is mostly no viable mana regen items a jungler can buy. And the best mana sustain item is locked behind a bad pathway for a jungler (ROA). And ap junglers are threading a really slippery slope with the mid lane. People don't adapt to meta changes, they want the blue. Had people troll me because I didn't give them 2nd blue (had a more mana intensive champ than mid laner- jungle gragas to our kayle mid who never actually ran out of mana without it). Mostly this means junglers have to adapt to ignorant mids and run ad reliant mana champs like vi/jarvan or straight up manaless lee/rengar/reksai. That isn't strategic diversity. That's heavily gating viable soloq and even more heavily gating 5v5 competetive jungle roster. By that I mean that the junglers are already playing more of a support-ish playstyle and need to give blue to mid so they can carry. That's why you currently only see it going between lee, rengar, jarvan, reksai, vi and very rarely and quite innefectively Elise in the lcs scene.

HizsooJan 28, 20151 votes

In other words, mana and mana regen is the biggest reason why you don't bring a champion into the jungle. Junglers have a limited gold income and even more limited access to these item stats early. Instead, they can switch up trailblazer when they no longer need it. No need to remove anything from the jg items, just give more in combat mana gain on specific ones.

ChessburgerJan 28, 20151 votes

Removing the 10% cdr would be so AD players wouldn't bitch about it being "too good". I can live with losing 10% cdr, I can't live with not having meaningful mana return outside of blue buff.

Look at it this way: the tank item has 3 stats: HP, tenacity, CDR (it's not that good compared to the AD item but that's another issue), the AD item has 3 stats: AD ARPEN, CDR; Magus has 2 stats: AP, CDR.

So, logically following the pattern of the other two items which both have 10% cdr would be to split the 20% cdr on magus into 2 stats: 10% cdr and some form of mana regen/return mechanism.

Hope that makes sense.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbJan 28, 20151 votes

I don't really see a problem with just giving more mana regen to the jungle items in general. It's kind of shitty to have to choose mana sustain on say, amumu, since he doesn't really get to build mana in a lot of cases.

StoningtonJan 29, 20151 votes

Mana regen does not influence energy regen unless it's blue buff. And no, AP junglers can't build mana regen in the jungle comfortably.