Riot hard buffs Lux, she gets a prestige. Riot hard buffs Pyke, he gets a legendary.

Terozu·Jul 24, 2019·106 votes·22,786 views

But they totally don't buff champs to sell skins.

Edit- Just to be clear, they dont do this for all skins, mostly just the high Profile ones.

Take Zed and his legendary, he got nerfed on that patch yes, but it was a love tap Nerf, and was partially just a revert to the buff he record 4 patches earlier, which massively buffed Living Shadow's range.

Lux was steadily buffed to the point r/Lux was asking for nerfs, but didn't get those nerfs until a month after her Prestige skin.

Vayne got her Q cooldown reduction when ulting a patch before her prestige edition.

Pyke has just gotten a massive gold buff on his ult which coincides with forcing him back into the support role in a similar manner to Janna.

Even further, I don't think this is a bad business practice, skins are their income it makes sense to do this. Just don't pretend not to.

146 Comments

KFCeytronJul 24, 201957 votes

Don't be silly.

...Riot buffs champs for Worlds.

Tuition FeeJul 24, 201924 votes

{quoted}

Don't be silly.

...Riot buffs champs for Worlds.

Don't forget nerfs Taliyah Ryze

Abibyama IIJul 25, 201910 votes

This one is actually legitimate as Riot themselves admitted that in last years worlds patch notes

EedatJul 24, 201941 votes

Why do you think they keep Ahri S tier at all times? Oh sorry, "nerfed" from 53% winrate to 52.9%

Abibyama IIJul 25, 20197 votes

Strangely, no one seems to give a shit about Ahri. If Zed, Riven or Vayne got those stats this place would flip it's tables

xxxryzetacionJul 25, 201910 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XdyATHdH,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-25T00:38:17.653+0000)

Strangely, no one seems to give a shit about Ahri. If Zed, Riven or Vayne got those stats this place would flip it's tables

dont be silly, riven has even better stats in the elos that actually matter

Luther King Jr VJul 25, 20192 votes

because shes pretty?

Sailor MintJul 25, 20194 votes

Ahri hasn't been relevant outside of SoloQ in years.

EedatJul 25, 201922 votes

outside of SoloQ

You mean outside the modes 99.99% of people play? Seriously?

Sailor MintJul 26, 20193 votes

She's not meta warping and she's not picked in competitive.

There's a reason why the top topic about Ahri is her skins, because nobody cares about her SoloQ presence.

It's not much of a debate that you'd rather play with/against an Ahri than the more frustrating alternatives.

5StackUltOneShotJul 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Why do you think they keep Ahri S tier at all times? Oh sorry, "nerfed" from 53% winrate to 52.9%

As Hashinshin once said, you never argue about balance with Ahri/Riven mains, they seem to think their champions are dogshit for some reason

MarshbouyJul 24, 201919 votes

inb4 riot defenders

Abibyama IIJul 25, 201914 votes

Disproving this shit meme isn't riot defending, Fuck Riot for not fixing Warwick bugs and not making him a good champion

Shit on Riot all you want but at least don't spread misinformation like China affecting league or Skin sales affecting balance

General Esdeath Jul 25, 20197 votes

{quoted}

inb4 riot defenders

"BuT mUh PoPuLaR cHaMpS!"

Moody PJul 24, 201912 votes

pyke wasn't hard buffed and lux just got nerfed

What about when Caitlyn and Ashe both got nerfed right before their legendaries dropped

TerozuJul 24, 201921 votes

Lux didnt get nerfed until Prestige edition was removed from stores, she was steadily buffed before that. Pyke gets double gold from kills or assists with his ult, turning 1 kill into 3 kills worth of gold if an ally is nearby.

Ashe wasn't gutted before her skin drop, her most recent change at the time was a buff to Ranger's Focus. Caitlyn didn't get nerfed until the patch after, which was actually a late game compensation buff for a bug fix, so neither of those are true.

ZardoJul 24, 20196 votes

Respond to the second part.

Pulsefire caitlyn dropped the same patch she got hard gutted in.

TerozuJul 24, 201922 votes

She wasn't. She was 'gutted' the patch after. And her 'gutting' was removing a bugged interaction with Runaan's hurricane. Which they had acknowledged months before hand. But didn't address, until AFTER her skin had a chance to sell.

InfernapeJul 24, 201910 votes

{quoted}

She wasn't. She was 'gutted' the patch after. And her 'gutting' was removing a bugged interaction with Runaan's hurricane. Which they had acknowledged months before hand. But didn't address, until AFTER her skin had a chance to sell.

I remember this vividly because I instabought her skin when it came out. Her skin came out 7.10 and she was gutted in 7.11.

And yes it was a gutting. They increased her attack delay and made her scale worse with AS.

ZardoJul 25, 20191 votes

The gutting involved removing her interaction with runaan's(her strongest build at the time) and lowering her base AS.

Sounds minor, but she was at a 44% winrate during this time because of it.

TerozuJul 25, 20197 votes

Except that same patch they buffed her atk speed passive buff, nullifying the stat nerf for a net neutral at level 1, and an overall buff to her late game as compensation for the bug she was riding off of.

Runaans was never supposed to stack her passive, it was just a long standing bug.

ZardoJul 25, 20191 votes

It was a net buff lategame sure....

ignoring items. With items it was a net nerf. A large one. It reduced her scaling with AS.

TerozuJul 25, 20197 votes

You're right, I forgot that, still it didn't happen until after Pulsefire had a chance to sell, and she had been heavily complained about before hand.

Which was my point.

mack9112Jul 25, 20193 votes

{quoted}

She wasn't. She was 'gutted' the patch after. And her 'gutting' was removing a bugged interaction with Runaan's hurricane. Which they had acknowledged months before hand. But didn't address, until AFTER her skin had a chance to sell.

zed got nerfed the exact same patch he got his galaxy slayer skin.

TerozuJul 25, 20191 votes

Zed got a massive buff 4 patches before that, and got part of the buff reverted, for a net strength increase.

mack9112Jul 25, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Zed got a massive buff 4 patches before that, and got part of the buff reverted, for a net strength increase.

lmao dude he got a nerf the same patch he got a skin you have been proved wrong

TerozuJul 25, 20191 votes

His Q had a buff reverted and his Living shadow got 2 seconds added to the cooldown.

Just before that, his Living Shadow got 50% more range, an overall massive buff on a champ who was already strong at the time. He was buffed for the skin, then love tapped to make it less obvious.

Tomoe GozenJul 25, 20193 votes

Yea, you don't get to say "Zed was overbuffed but only love tapped nerfed to bring him in line, with an overall net increase". You're misrepresenting the actual patch notes and are framing it in your own narrative. That's not how things work.

You said "champs that are popular, get buffed when their moneymaker skins get dropped", where Zed should also be Riot's lovechild. His history doesn't prove that one bit. Also, Riot only hotfixes champions if they're really out of line and can't wait for two weeks until the new patch cycle hits. We've had numerous hotfixes in the past and they're dangerous to do as without proper bug testing, they have the potential to introduce more bugs and break more things. That's why when Riot does so, they try to bring as minimal changes as possible but still address the unintended strength/interaction that's way out of line.

Tim From WorkJul 25, 20192 votes

You keep saying the range on his w got buffed but the only thing that they buffed about the range is the recast which in all honesty isn’t that huge of a buff the only thing it did is give him a little more room to juke if he throws his shadow one way and walks the other he has more room to swap back, which is a buff yes but not as big as you are claiming

General Esdeath Jul 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Respond to the second part.

Pulsefire caitlyn dropped the same patch she got hard gutted in.

PF Cait dropped in 7.10, which had no balance changes. 7.9 she got some MR growth buff, and in 7.11 she got:

Base attack speed reduced to 0.543 from 0.568. Attack delay increased to 0.15 from 0.1. Headshot Runaan's Hurricane no longer grants Headshot stacks on secondary targets. Passive starting bonus attack speed increased to 15% from 10%. Level 1 attack speed is still 0.625.

I don't think I'd call it a hard gutting, more of a soft tap to early in exchange for some power in other places and a fix to a "bug"

ZardoJul 25, 20192 votes

I don't think I'd call it a hard gutting, more of a soft tap to early in exchange for some power in other places and a fix to a "bug"

That "soft tap" dropped her winrate to ~44%.

Edit: You can find a graph here. The dropoff that happened in s7(2017) was a result of these changes. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/caitlyn

General Esdeath Jul 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

That "soft tap" dropped her winrate to ~44%.

Edit: You can find a graph here. The dropoff that happened in s7(2017) was a result of these changes. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/caitlyn

That big dip doesn't happen until July, the 7.11 patch was in May.

preternaturalJul 24, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Lux didnt get nerfed until Prestige edition was removed from stores, she was steadily buffed before that. Pyke gets double gold from kills or assists with his ult, turning 1 kill into 3 kills worth of gold if an ally is nearby.

riot has it down to a science bruv. if people don't see it they just won't.

ModAcademy KaynJul 25, 201911 votes

Are we just gonna conveniently forget how much Riot nerfed Pyke in the patch before hand? Effectively removing all of his waveclear and his damage on Tap Q, and that there is the possibility that, I dunno, he was legitimately weak in his main role and needed a buff? Unless we want to start the conspiracy that Riot purposefully nerfs champions a patch before to give them a reason to buff them before a skin?

Seriously, I get ya'll don't like Pyke, but you have to admit that there was a lot taken away from Pyke the patch before this one, and yet somehow, it's totally about his skin that he got buffed. Or you know, the fact that said 'hard buff' also nerfed the damage his ult does against non-fatal casts against Champions?

Ionian VulpixJul 25, 20197 votes

Because they made him to be a support, so they nerfed his solo lane viability. You know, make him fit for what he was intended to do. Killing waveclear but doubling down on his 'unique support tools' (Gold sharing). He sure as hell wasn't weak as a support beforehand though.

Honestly, it might make some lanes healthier if they do that for more champs. You might be able to get some ranged top laners gone (Neeko, Kennen, and Viktor all meant to be mids) and move some supports and midlaners around so Brand can't be a support and they could finally decide what the hell to do with Karma.

ModAcademy KaynJul 25, 20195 votes

I'm aware he was made for the support role, and i fully endorse him being there. I don't need another Vlad in my life, send him back to bot and outta my mid.

Now, whether or not he needed the buff after the sudden, and deserved, kneecapping to send him back down bot? Maybe not, I'm not aware of his stats last patch, and I'm not really one to take anecdotal evidence either, even my own without a disclaimer. However, regardless of whether it was deserved or not, Pyke did get a massive pair of changes before hand, last patch. It is still within the realm of possibilities that they buffed him because he actually needed it, and not just because 'its plain and clear it's to sell his skin'. Enough I think, for reasonable doubt.

And honestly yeah, I wouldn't be opposed with getting rid of some mage supports out of bot, but if that's the course of action you're going to take, then you're gonna need to be prepared for the backlash of "Riot dictates how you play the game!" Even if I don't like them there, there is an argument for them being there in the first place.

DeathBurstJul 25, 20199 votes

Confirmation bias.

There are tons of skins, even high profile ones, when this did NOT happen. Except when it does not happen, no one talks about it.

Zero ShingetsuJul 25, 20197 votes

And let's be clear, I have no problem with them trying to push skins. They're in it to profit, they should try to profit. But this isn't the method to do it. Not when you have a highly touted ranked ladder in your game.

TerozuJul 25, 20198 votes

To be honest, I'm fine with them doing this. But the fact they deny it is just sad.

Boo Koo GodJul 26, 20192 votes

True

JamareeJul 25, 20195 votes

Not defending this but should champions only get skins when they are getting a nerf then?

TerozuJul 25, 20196 votes

Oh no I'm fine with them doing this, skins are their main income.

I just find it annoying they pretend they aren't when they blatantly are.

IfnethJul 25, 20195 votes

This whole myth was disproved in a long, in-depth article a while back. Please stop spreading it.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/0prFckQM-an-analysis-on-the-question-whether-riot-buffs-champions-which-get-a-new-skin

WolfeurJul 25, 20195 votes

Correlation ≠ causation

Crescent DuskJul 25, 20194 votes

{quoted}

But they totally don't buff champs to sell skins.

Edit- Just to be clear, they dont do this for all skins, mostly just the high Profile ones.

Take Zed and his legendary, he got nerfed on that patch yes, but it was a love tap Nerf, and was partially just a revert to the buff he record 4 patches earlier, which massively buffed Living Shadow's range.

Lux was steadily buffed to the point r/Lux was asking for nerfs, but didn't get those nerfs until a month after her Prestige skin.

Vayne got her Q cooldown reduction when ulting a patch before her prestige edition.

Pyke has just gotten a massive gold buff on his ult which coincides with forcing him back into the support role in a similar manner to Janna.

Even further, I don't think this is a bad business practice, skins are their income it makes sense to do this. Just don't pretend not to.

Zed was busted even before the skin came out. His win rate even before the buffs was at 53% for a supposedly "hard" champion (he isn't, he's the best scaling AD assassin in the game, and by mid game thanks to BC/LDR he can kill people with ult without even landing more than 1 Q if at all).

SpaghettiVaseJul 25, 20191 votes

To be fair, Lux had been receiving steady buffs for about a year despite her being in an already okay state. She didn’t really tip into “OP” territory until people started realizing how good she was as a support in high elo/pro

TerozuJul 25, 20191 votes

She started being buffed at the same time the lock out for being chosen for a skinline would've happened in relation to BA's release date...

SpaghettiVaseJul 25, 20195 votes

Lux didn’t receive a single buff past 8.9. She wasn’t considered overpowered until a few months ago. You think they intentionally buffed her MONTHS in advanced, and she still remained a pretty unpopular pick mind you, in order to sell the prestige skin?