Trash talking, actually is fine.

Terozu·Feb 4, 2018·90 votes·7,291 views

But there's a difference between trash talking someone for doing something stupid once or twice giving you a lead, like "nice play lux lol" after she failed her skills, or "thx for the leash" when you pull off an objective steal,

and then there's flaming someone, spamming insults into the chat, any form of "kys" or any other hate speech, spamming "bad" "trash" "report x" "x is so bad" "dumbass".

So keep to trash talking, even insults have to have some form of friendliness, it's called sportsmanship.

171 Comments

ModThe DjinnFeb 4, 201838 votes

Precisely.

Trash talk is sportsmanlike and mostly respectful, even in its disrespect. It is NOT insults or harassment.

ShaolinToiletFeb 4, 201815 votes

Trash talking is fine and all but in no sports is trash talking ever sportsmanlike

ModThe DjinnFeb 4, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Trash talking is fine and all but in no sports is trash talking ever sportsmanlike

I'd argue that a bit of good-natured trash talk can be pretty sportsmanlike, frankly. Depends on the situation. In a friendly game of pick-up basketball, for example, it's just part of the good-natured ribbing that often goes on between friends. League has more in common with those styles of games than with professional sports, imo.

ShaolinToiletFeb 4, 20186 votes

I guess so but when I think about league trashtalk it seems completely different from any sport trashtalk. In league it's about bolstering your ego and letting the other player know he's shit while in basketball unless you're an asshole it's usually just small things you comment about like how you made the shot or got around him etc which sounds the same but usually isn't as harsh.

EastWolfyFeb 4, 20181 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m75WKO-GVMQ not as harsh ? check out kobe or mj and tell me they are not harsh.

ShaolinToiletFeb 5, 20188 votes

These guys are teammates who practice all day together not some randoms in a pickup game

EastWolfyFeb 5, 20183 votes

1 lin was brand new at the time barely out of college and he got the shit thrashed out of him by kobe to the point where they had to trade him because he wasnt performing

2 theres videos of kobes teammates actually tearing up and leaving the court, thats how harsh he was

3 he trash talked the enemy team a shitload too to the point where they almost got in fights

4 so youre saying its okay to abuse people you know but not strangers ?

5 if you think getting trash talked in league is "harsher" than getting trashed by a 6 5 230 jacked guy on the basketball court youve, clearly never played sports before. If you think league is harsher than actual sports you dont know what youre talking about and you should stop embarrasing yourself.

ShaolinToiletFeb 5, 20183 votes

Kobe is an asshole and the only reason he got put up with was because of how good he is. He is nowhere near the norm.
My point was they all know each other and their tendencies. If you start yelling at a random stranger on the street you will have different consequences than if you know the person and have set up a relationship with them.
This is all your opinion but In my experience people who trashtalk in sports really make you play harder in order to beat them. In league when someone is trash talking it's always some teenager that I just end up muting and not giving a shit. You are saying " if you don't agree with my opinion then you have never played sports" which is pretty laughable

EastWolfyFeb 5, 20183 votes

Okay so if its some teenager you end up muting the title of this thread is correct. Trash talking is fine, if youre annoyed by it just mute the guy, no biggie.

And you said sports isnt as harsh, the video alone proves its way harsher. Theres no mute button on the court. Playing harder wont do shit if your up against mj or shaq. And if they are destroying you while talking trash to your face thats pretty humiliating. Not a lot of people take that well, i dont see how you can equate that to anything in league.

SyrdonFeb 4, 20186 votes

Not sure if I missed some kind of irony but you litteraly said that disrespect is respectful.

Trashtalking is ok when players know each other, it's not when you play with randoms.

ModThe DjinnFeb 4, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Not sure if I missed some kind of irony but you litteraly said that disrespect is respectful.

Trashtalking is ok when players know each other, it's not when you play with randoms.

I think this depends on what you qualify as trash talk. I would say "nice shot :P" when an enemy misses is more playful banter than insults, but I would also say qualifies as trash talk. Or "competitive BMing, as I believe Riot's tool tips call it. As long as you only do it occasionally and make it clear that you respect your opponent despite your occasional banter, I would call that respectful trash talk.

So yes, I believe that sort of behavior can be respectful once you setup a respectful and polite level of communication with the other players in the game, and once you show that you're all just having fun together.

It's definitely not something I would do in every game, or something I would say you should do without other positive communication, but it is something that I believe Riot allows in moderate quantities.

SyrdonFeb 4, 20186 votes

"respectful trash talk" is only possible if you know the other, or if you "setup a respectful and polite level of communication", indeed. But in over 3000 games (I think), I have never, ever encountered that.

The vast majority of people trash talk not because they want to joke but because they want to tilt their opponent. And the moment you say something just to piss off your opponent, you should be punished, whether it worked or not.

ModThe DjinnFeb 4, 20186 votes

{quoted}

"respectful trash talk" is only possible if you know the other, or if you "setup a respectful and polite level of communication", indeed. But in over 3000 games (I think), I have never, ever encountered that.

That's interesting. It's something I personally encounter quite a lot in my games, particularly when playing either mid or top. I think top is where I found the most of it, and that may be because Top Lane often feels like its own little part of the game. Maybe I've gotten lucky, or there's something specific in how I interact with my lane opponents. I'll have to keep an eye out for it, 'cause I have teasing little back and forth with my opponents all the time, and probably added more of them to my friends list then normal statistics would indicate.

SyrdonFeb 4, 20184 votes

Maybe it's because you start the conversation first.

But I'm pretty sure OP hasn't "setup a respectful and polite level of communication" when he says "thx for the leash" after he steals a buff and kills his opponent, ruining his game, at minute 5.

ModThe DjinnFeb 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it's because you start the conversation first.

But I'm pretty sure OP hasn't "setup a respectful and polite level of communication" when he says "thx for the leash" after he steals a buff and kills his opponent, ruining his game, at minute 5.

I feel it's not our place to judge his interactions without evidence of said interactions. His point is ultimately a valid one, even if it has an addendum he didn't include specifically -- namely that if an environment exists (or is created in game) where sportsmanship, fun, and respect are laid out, a bit of friendly trashtalk is totally acceptable.

SyrdonFeb 5, 20181 votes

A point that is verified only under specific conditions isn't a valid one. If I say "actually, sheeps are all black", the fact that some are indeed black doesn't validate my point.

ModThe DjinnFeb 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

A point that is verified only under specific conditions isn't a valid one. If I say "actually, sheeps are all black", the fact that some are indeed black doesn't validate my point.

He didn't say "100% of insults are okay" though. His initial post even draws a specific line between what he calls trash talk (the terminology varies from person to person) and insults/flaming, and mentions that it's okay to do the former here and there.

It's more like he says "Some sheep are black, and some sheep are white, and some sheep are gray. We're getting white sheep, but some gray sheep are okay. Just make sure you don't get TOO many gray sheep and no DARK gray sheep, and it'll be okay in our flock of generally white sheep."

i.e. he's not giving carte blanche to be a jerk, or even coming close to suggesting that.

#SheepMetaphors

SyrdonFeb 5, 20183 votes

Of course insults are not ok. Btw, OP does say "insults have some form of friendlyness".

But passive-aggressive isn't ok either. You said it can be ok if you know the guy or if you already joked with him, and I agree with that. But OP didn't mention it.

"Nice play Lux lol" after an obvious fail is passive aggressive. Say that to a random ennemy (or even ally) Lux and you'll be rightfully reported for griefing and bm, even if it wasn't intended to be aggressive. "Thx for the leash" after you invade, steal buff and kill ennemy jungler lvl 3 is passive aggressive, even if you just wanted to joke.

Maybe you know the OP, maybe he's a nice guy, but from what he wrote he just seems to be a jerk who just want to troll and taunt (even insult) freely.

KlydeFrogFeb 5, 20183 votes

exactly ...how is this person even a moderator

TurtleMariFeb 4, 20186 votes

Trash talk is exactly that, talking trash about someone. It is not respectful or sportsmanlike in any way. Trash talk is deconstructive, it always has been. When i first started out, back when i did not even knew what lanes were, within the first hour people said so many bad things about me, not all were insults but they still made me feel bad. If its not constructive, why write it to a person in the first place?

Scary DoorFeb 4, 201817 votes

The problem with trash-talking is this:

If you allow it, then where do you draw the line? How do you define that line to the playerbase? How can you say that "x is okay" but "y is not"?

My view is that you either allow it entirely across the board, or absolutely disallow it altogether. The reason for this is because everyone has their own definition of what is reasonable, acceptable or offensive. Personally, I am not offended by anything, at all.. it's a video game----who cares what people think of you or say to you? But, not everyone is as thick-skinned as I am. So, you have to define, in very clear terms, what is appropriate and what isn't and then enforce it exactly as is written.

Hong Kong AnnieFeb 4, 20183 votes

This "where do you draw the line" counter point is the weakest argument I have ever heard and I don't understand how it can be used in any situation. Where do you draw the line? Fucking anywhere it doesn't matter, as long as there is a clear line and there is a zero tolerance for anything that crosses it.

Scary DoorFeb 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wayward Son,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=r0rbUGog,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-02-04T20:08:07.465+0000)

This "where do you draw the line" counter point is the weakest argument I have ever heard

It wasn't so much an argument/counterpoint as much as it was a question as to IF YOU ALLOW trash talking, where is the line? What constitutes acceptable and what does not?

You didn't exactly refute the point either, you just said "it's the weakest argument I have ever heard" which is a statement of hyperbole and not a refute.

To me, you either allow it, or you don't. It's kind of hard to have a "middle ground".

Rinký DinkyFeb 4, 20182 votes

"where do you draw the line" is a weak argument, as it can be applied to anything.

Scary DoorFeb 4, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rinký Dinky,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=r0rbUGog,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2018-02-04T21:33:46.138+0000)

"where do you draw the line" is a weak argument, as it can be applied to anything.

Not really.

Most aspects of society are pretty cut and dry. Murder, armed robbery, theft, assault... all have very clearly defined parameters. Sociologically speaking it's pretty much the same deal... we have clearly definited boundaries to issues.

Then again, we're talking about League and Riot... there's never clearly defined boundaries. Even here on the Boards, I have had posts randomly deleted that were innocuous, while others that were far more... outspoken... shall we say, were left intact. So, yes, it's a perfectly vaid thought process that there should either be a "no trash talking" policy, or a 'free-for-all'.

Hong Kong AnnieFeb 4, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=r0rbUGog,comment-id=000a00010000,timestamp=2018-02-04T22:05:08.949+0000)

So, yes, it's a perfectly vaid thought process that there should either be a "no trash talking" policy, or a 'free-for-all'.

No it's not. The crimes you listed are all fringe extremes that have various degrees of severity and have a multitude of different punishments. If not even murder is clear cut and dry what makes you think something as lose as trash talking has to be all or nothing?

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 4, 20189 votes

https://orig00.deviantart.net/8030/f/2015/165/0/f/ren_thank_you_by_flyinglion76-d8txo4f.jpg

IfnethFeb 4, 20188 votes

Nah. I’ve never seen anyone be ‘fun’ or ‘playful’ with trash-talk. It’s always someone just trying to make someone else feel awful. Mastery emote spam, “GG EZ,” and calling the other team trash aren’t funny to anyone.

The closest I ever come to ‘trash talk’ is during lore matchups, like Taliyah vs Azir , when I’ll say something like, “The tribes of Shurima rise against you, Azir!” when the match starts. After the match, I might say, “The time of Emperors is over, Azir” if I win, or “The people will never surrender to your rule!” if I lose.

I wish my lane opponents would say something like that back. It’s not like they don’t sit listening to their champion talk all game... >_>

AnastaeciaFeb 4, 20187 votes

EXCEPT...who is to say what is and what isn't "trash talking"? Remember...."It's only locker room talk".

TiltoverEnforcerFeb 4, 20187 votes

When you're bragging about or threatening to directly harm or violate someone, you've probably gone too far. If you poke fun at someone for something silly that happened in game, that's perfectly acceptable.

AnastaeciaFeb 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

When you're bragging about or threatening to directly harm or violate someone, you've probably gone too far. If you poke fun at someone for something silly that happened in game, that's perfectly acceptable.

Have you read the "why did I get banned" threads on here? Almost ALL of them thought they were "poking fun".

Hong Kong AnnieFeb 4, 20182 votes

I have yet to see one of those threads where the player didn't 100% deserve the ban. The punishment system is progressive and requires a magnitude of reports. People don't get banned for one game and there are normally multiple other offences outside of the one log they show where they were just "poking fun" and that is what gets them banned.

SaltLord451Feb 4, 20187 votes

Is typing "?" in all chat every time you kill someone acceptable?

TerozuFeb 4, 20183 votes

That's actually one of the things that blurs the line so you're mean for making me think. XD Honestly I'd say it's like spamming an emote, its tilting but its not to the point of outright insulting someone.

KrigjerFeb 4, 20186 votes

Trash talking is so much fun when those player take it as a hit to their ego and go wild about it. Then proceed to play even worst for me to push the knife deeper and deeper into their sanity with petty little harmless comments or mastery emotes.

The fact that trash talking is considered a viable strategy is absurd.

I mute the moment someone starts trash talking, I don't care how 'friendly' it is.

Rinký DinkyFeb 4, 20181 votes

Tilting the enemy is the best strategy muh d00d.

The emote spam meta is cray

git gud

KrigjerFeb 4, 20183 votes

git gud

Ironic when your 'strategy' consists of making the enemy lose focus because you couldn't best them otherwise.

'I have to make them play worse so I can beat them'

Okay.

MathixFeb 4, 20186 votes

This is a pretty interesting way of thinking. I agree insults should be left out but I fail to see how trash talking is actually considered sportsmanlike.

MarshbouyFeb 4, 20185 votes

My favorite kind of interaction is the "thanks for the leash" even when I get an objective stolen, I usually respond with a "you're welcome bby :)"

WrÆthFeb 4, 20185 votes

When you trash talk, whether you like it or not, you are intentionally trying to goad another player into a toxic response, or to tilt. Therefore, you are spawning toxicity in a game where being toxic is punishable. So trash talking is not ok, unless you actually know the person and their limits.

XidphelFeb 6, 20183 votes

"Even though you're not trying to goad someone, you're trying to goad someone."

wat

paisyFeb 4, 20184 votes

Yeah helps me know who to mute

General Esdeath Feb 5, 20184 votes

This. The amount of time I see people say "I was trash talking" and their chat logs is something like "kys %%%"

I constantly trash talk with things like "nice" or "???" and never get in trouble.

ArammusFeb 4, 20183 votes

really? last time i asked here if its toxic to say "fuck man i suck so hard vs irelia, will need a lot of help cause she will stomp me" THE COMMUNITY told me this is negative toxic behavior.

SalsonFeb 4, 20182 votes

Ye, I never minded stuff like a deserved Mastery flash or the Emotes. Or anything that is basically 'I'm awesome', as it doesn't directly put the opponent down.

But you can't expect everyone to know the difference between jokes and insults. After all, we have both literal 12-year-olds and mental 12-year-olds in the playerbase.

For instance, you turn a gank and kill the enemy Jungler: -'Ty come again' - ok -'Kys noob' - banhammer

RákãñFeb 4, 20182 votes

Trash talking is so much fun when those player take it as a hit to their ego and go wild about it. Then proceed to play even worst for me to push the knife deeper and deeper into their sanity with petty little harmless comments or mastery emotes.

[sg-jinx]

Its like a global Teemo taunt, just without the Teemo.

_ But, yeah, there are limits to it. Like when it goes to the death threats or hate speech is going way to far.

IfnethFeb 4, 20185 votes

That’s awful! This is a game. It’s supposed to be fun for everyone.