Why hasn't Yasuo been changed when he has >60% banrate in 9 regions?(of 13)

Terozu·Mar 14, 2019·94 votes·22,740 views

NA - 65% Korea - 65% EUW - 68% EUNE - 65% JAPAN - 68% OCEANIA - 65% RUSSIA - 66% TURKEY - 68% (Zed is at 77% there, first time someone is more banned than Yas) BRAZIL - 69% LAS - OMG! 57%! Below 60! LAN - WOW! 55%! It's a fucking miracle!(Both Lan and Las ban Zed more.)

Please, how is this even remotely okay?

There are, counting Garena as one server and discounting PBE, only 13 servers.

How is Yasuo viewed as okay while having >60% banrates in 9/13 servers?

I wouldn't doubt China has a high banrate for him as well but i cant figure out LoL box.

How can RiotRep bring up Riven only being an issue on NA, while Riot also ignores Yasuo, who is an issue on the majority of servers?

Is this seriously not indicative that his design isn't healthy?

Source: https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

169 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerMar 14, 201911 votes

You yourself in this very thread acknowledge that Yasuo isn’t overpowered. That’s your answer right there as to why there aren’t any changes.

He’s mildly frustrating to play against depending on the matchup, but what champion fucking isn’t? You think the Ashe has a fun time playing against Volibear, or anyone has fun against an Olaf?

Frustration alone does not necessitate changes. Yasuo has plenty of counters, ranging from flat out simple counter picks to skill dependent matchups. Besides that, there’s ample counterplay for every matchup (such as not throwing your entire goddamn kit into his wind wall. Seriously!! It’s that simple!!!)

When a champion has been changed before due to “frustration”, it was because that frustration came from some kind of bad gameplay, usually non-interactive perma-pushing where the champion pushing just doesn’t do anything to the other laner (and doesn’t let anything happen to themselves either). See Midlane Morgana or Taliyah.

Yasuo is one of the furthest things you could get from “non-interactive”, and bad gameplay doesn’t include wasting your entire damage rotation on a long Cooldown ability that can be incrediblly easily baited out.

TerozuMar 14, 201939 votes

It's not mild frustration.

Yasuo wins lane Top, 55% of the time, Mid 72% of the time, Bot is like 90% of the time.

The only 3 matchups mid lane that consistently beat Yas are Riven Zed and Irelia. Two of which are gimmick mids at best. The only person botlane who even comes close to matching him bot lane is Lucian. As long as he's not going top against a certain like 5 people, he's going to win laning phase.

The champion constantly wins lane due to the aggravation factor in his kit. There are only like 10-15 different champs who can actually win lane against Yasuo, and well over 50 that won't be able to survive laning phase.

I would rather take Olaf running at me in Ragnarok while overpowered than deal with an underpowered Yasuo in lane. His kit makes the game stop being fun and he's a pain to deal with even when weak.

And this feeling is shared semi globally. That is a major red flag on the state of his kit.

His kit is unhealthy. The only way you're gonna bait his windwall is with a targetted ability, skill shots wont work because he'll just dodge with his E which is basically always up.

The problem isn't that he's not interactive, it's that his kit is overloaded to the point where dealing with him is such an utter chore most people would rather blow a ban on him than deal with him even when he's statistically weak.

Zed geniusMar 15, 20195 votes

Yasuo wins lane Top, 55% of the time, Mid 72% of the time, Bot is like 90% of the time.

Those stats are completely made up btw

TerozuMar 15, 20193 votes

Those stats are accurate and sourced btw.

TheGreatNinxMar 15, 20199 votes

No isn't. I went the site you linked in the post and it says his top 3 counter is malz, taliyah and sol, and still good picks against him are liss zed, vlad fizz. He has high win rate in mid. 61% Top is only 31% win rate bot is 8%. :.

Edit: My bad I was looking at the wrong numbers. 48.68% win rate over all, Top yasuo has 48.53% win rate, Mid has 48.63% win rate, is 50.64% win rate for bot. So what you are stating above is non-sense bullshit. If you're losing to yasuo with these win rates than you deserved to lose

Thot Patrol AsheMar 16, 20192 votes

https://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo/Middle the real stats lol. 47% win rate with more deaths than kills from a sample size of 15000 yasuo games this patch. Theres a reason yasuo players are memes now

BârdMar 15, 20193 votes

Yeah, no. Yasuo has a lot more than just 3 bad matchups in mid.

Just to name a few,

Annie

Massive Auto range, you can always break Yasuo's passive shield before a fight.
Tibbers and W damage through windwall.
You have a stun that can pierce windwall, so if you stun him at the same moment he knocks you up, he can't ult you.

Veigar

You can't fight Yasuo 1v1, obviously, but you are exceptional at enabling jungle ganks on somebody like Yasuo with no defensive mobility.

Malzahar

Just press R.

Lissandra

Same, but you have another non-projectile CC and an escape.

Xerath

You'll be walking on eggshells, but your waveclear doesn't rely on projectiles.

Vladimir

Q/R pierce windwall.
Your W comes out faster than his Q3, so you can avoid his ult most of the time.

Hell, that's just Meta midlaners.

If you know you're going against Yasuo, there's a lot of weird shit you can go.

Ever gone Darius mid?

DuskDaUmbreonMar 16, 20192 votes

If we nerfed a champion on whether or not they won lane Pantheon would still be receiving nerfs to this day.

AirKingNeoMar 15, 20193 votes

in what fucking world is Ashe laning against Olaf or Volibear?

PianoasisMar 15, 20192 votes

bronze. silver. diamond. master. challenger.

basically everything but high elo

FSRERMar 14, 20199 votes

The same reason why Draven , Vayne , attack speed Neeko top Riven and Sylas haven't been nerfed. Because riot does not care AT ALL what the players want unlike they did in the past. Now, if a champion sells skins why should he get nerfed? for less people to play aka less people bying skins for him? NAH we can't have that!

TerozuMar 14, 201911 votes

ATK SPD Neeko was nerfed.

Riot's reason for Riven is that she's only a problem on NA. Which is why I specified that Yasuo is a problem on almost all servers.

Sir SaltarinMar 14, 201925 votes

Neeko was hotfixed...and Sylas is being nerfed on PBE.

Clueless comment.

FSRERMar 14, 20194 votes

Neeko was nerfed? Welp it seems to be true but at top it is still very anoying and almost impossible to deal with. Sylas BETTER get some quality nerfs not like lb ones But vayne, riven and of course yasuo are still overpowered. And as for riots favorite, draven, he has been left at this op state for way, way too long

After3permaMar 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UKINxF4z,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2019-03-14T17:25:01.157+0000)

Neeko was hotfixed...and Sylas is being nerfed on PBE.

Clueless comment.

Lets nerf her W dmg by 40 at rank 5 and lower some attack speed and now dumb shits like this guy think AS Neeko is unplayable.

GlaricionMar 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Lets nerf her W dmg by 40 at rank 5 and lower some attack speed and now dumb shits like this guy think AS Neeko is unplayable.

After the nerf her pick, ban, and win rates plummet https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler/status/1105258532230721536

Lowered base damage, ats per level, and AD per level. You could argue over its viability, but it's no longer freelo OP.

TailypoMar 14, 20198 votes

I have a feeling if they addressed yas 65% of the time people would be banning either zed or yi. There are a handful of champs that riot needs to take a long hard look at. They're unfun to the point that they singlehandedly ruin games.

TerozuMar 14, 20196 votes

Oh I know the bans would shift, Zed is consistently top 5 most banned. But that's because he's strong right now, Yasuo is just annoying to play against and no one wants to do it.

thefatlazycatMar 14, 20195 votes

Am I the only one noticing its always the anime champions who are overpowered and not addressed? I feel like if Riot addressed this issue and showed these people that they were done pandering to them the game's community would improve by leaps and bounds

TerozuMar 14, 20194 votes

Yas is not overpowered, he's just extremely annoying to lane against.

DracosKasuMar 14, 20199 votes

Not really, it is CertainlyT design champion which alway happen to be a pain in the ass to play against. He alway design his champ to be fun for the user and painful to unfun for his opponents.

Thresh Zyra Zoe Zed Kalista Darius Yasuo he have all working on those

HyperTechnoMar 14, 20192 votes

You squabbling chicken, ZED IS NOT CT’S FUCKING CHAMPION. How many fucking times is this needed to be said? Second off all, CT want to give the player base a challenge, not an unfun champion. Which he explicitly explained in his interview.

By the way, challenging the player base is good. It enables new mechanics, that yes, breaks the game, but brings excitement. He is the only fucking person who gives a shit about this boring ass community. The once that cry about his champions being unfair, and needs reworks are fucking boring simpletons. It unfair to say, but true nonetheless.

GlaricionMar 14, 20191 votes

Excessive use of both insults and no-no words.
Thinks that CertainlyT's champions are a challenge, not a hassle or broken.
Believes that breaking the game is exciting rather than frustrating at best.
Claims that >60% of League's entire playerbase are boring and dumb.

I would expect nothing less from a fan of CertainlyT. He should be shipped off to a PvE project and have his creations reworked.

HyperTechnoMar 15, 20191 votes

Do not be butt hurt over the truth.
Facts.
Yes, and most would agree.
60%? Evidence please.

Not really a fan, but I embrace his creativity and challenges. Second off all, he is not the one who releasing his champions strong, that is the balancing team. This may sound counterproductive, but releasing a champion OP in the beginning is the best way to make the champion balanced over time. Because you can find things to fix with ease, while releasing them weak can lead them to be overburffed and never be balanced correctly. Akali was actually underpowered on her release, which left her in the mess she is now, also because the balancing team is full of idiots.

KarunamonMar 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

This may sound counterproductive, but releasing a champion OP in the beginning is the best way to make the champion balanced over time. Because you can find things to fix with ease, while releasing them weak can lead them to be overburffed and never be balanced correctly.

That makes sense. Also from a business perspective, since people will pick the champ up and they feel really good to play, at least initially.

There's also an argument that new champs should be OP as it helps balance out their early games where nobody knows how to play them yet.

SulghunterMar 16, 20192 votes

CertainlyT is the Matt Ward of Riot Games

Atom KnightMar 14, 20196 votes

What do you want to be done? Yasuo has been the top played champion internationally for 3 straight seasons. They only rework old/dead useless champs, so he can't be reworked. Nerfing him is already off the table just like Riven because "skill cap" is part of Riot's balance philosophy. So what do you want?

TerozuMar 14, 201920 votes

Yasuo is notoriously frustrating to play against as Riot has acknowledged. Do literally anything to lessen that frustration. Anything. They already said they were going to give him a mini rework then cancelled it without announcement a month later.

DoombotMar 16, 20192 votes

"Is frustrating to play against" is not a good argument, that's your subjective problem.

TerozuMar 16, 20192 votes

No, it's an objective problem.

Hence the 60% banrates when he is currently underpowered.

DoombotMar 16, 20192 votes

How is frustration objective? Because you just ignore all the players that tell you they don't mind Yasuo? I don't think that works.

If you think there is something wrong with his kit then you can discuss that but don't use "its frustrating" as an argument, because frankly...that's really stupid and childish.

TerozuMar 14, 20199 votes

Also no, Ezreal has consistently been and is on average the most played champ in the game. And he got a mini-rework just last fall.

FOR JUSTICEMar 14, 20196 votes

Riot:

We dont wanna nerf riven because she only has a high banrate on NA and most other western servers. Its the westerners that are wrong.

Also riot: Yasuo has a high banrate in more then half of the servers, but why would we nerf him?

MoonscourgeMar 14, 20195 votes

Ez got a mini rework because his W was uninteractive, boring and unsatisfying.

Yasuo has frustrations in his kit, but then there is also Teemo who is allowed to exist ONLY to piss other people off and while he does get a rework for being one of the oldest and mostly untouched champions by now that won't change at the core.

Yasuo is strong and annoying, but he isn't broken enough to rework him. If they straight up remove Windwall they have to buff his survivability. If they rework that ability they also have to buff the rest of his kit to compensate. Neither of which are desirable in the least.

You could make the argument that he should invest in more CDR to be as effective as he is, but that would also cause a lot of issues where weird and largely ineffective builds get suddenly more appealing and many people start buying the wrong items etc.

TerozuMar 14, 201912 votes

I dont want them to remove windwall. If a change to windwall would occur, make it so it doesn't spawn on top of him blocking projectiles from all sides. He should have to make it face the right way.
A change to his ult would just be removing the turret dive assistance. Just something that he doesn't need. Hell, once you get rid of the hand holding you could buff him for all I care. Make him nuke me,

just make it more "Oh you got nuked because he did something good and should be rewarded",

and not "you got nuked because he spammed his dash back and forth making hitting him impossible and windwalled your targetted abilities, while you've had to dodge 5 tornados between poke attempts and sooner or later his 7 second cooldown tornado with no costs at all will hit you".

Yasuo is much more hated and annoying than Teemo.

Teemo is cute global taunt cancer, Yasuo is anti fun cancer.

It's like sleepy vs tired. http://cdn.funnyisms.com/9981622f-2fdf-4f41-871c-5f377c929d9b.jpg

5StackUltOneShotMar 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I dont want them to remove windwall. If a change to windwall would occur, make it so it doesn't spawn on top of him blocking projectiles from all sides. He should have to make it face the right way.
A change to his ult would just be removing the turret dive assistance. Just something that he doesn't need. Hell, once you get rid of the hand holding you could buff him for all I care. Make him nuke me,

just make it more "Oh you got nuked because he did something good and should be rewarded",

and not "you got nuked because he spammed his dash back and forth making hitting him impossible and windwalled your targetted abilities, while you've had to dodge 5 tornados between poke attempts and sooner or later his 7 second cooldown tornado with no costs at all will hit you".

Yasuo is much more hated and annoying than Teemo.

Teemo is cute global taunt cancer, Yasuo is anti fun cancer.

It's like sleepy vs tired. http://cdn.funnyisms.com/9981622f-2fdf-4f41-871c-5f377c929d9b.jpg

Depending on who you ask really. Im a Darius main so I hate teemo more than Yasuo, by miles. On the contrary I like when he is picked because its a free five stack. I understand while people hate him but im throwing it out there that vs a Yasuo my winrate literally rises.

Same arguement for Veigar being melee mains hate it ranged mains dont give a shit.

3TWarriorMar 14, 20193 votes

most people top don't have a problem against yasuo

it's his mid lane and inevitable scaling even if crushed top that drives people insane

his late game is at 2 items, which puts him at full crit on top of the FOUR DEFENSIVE TOOLS IN HIS KIT

even then though, he basically fights like a ranged champ at top lane. His Q range is 425, up every max 4 seconds and scales with attack speed, so he has the most efficient build path with it

JuiceBoxPMar 14, 201910 votes

i honestly believe it's largely due to his absurd x2 crit chance passive. i mean, give me one reason he should get x2 crit chance while no other crit based champion be it ranged or melee literally has that going for him.

it allows yasuo to build both bruiser and adc items at the same time since adcs need 4 crit items to reach their potentinal maximum damage and yasuo just needs IE and shiv or some other zeal upgrade . the rest he can build bruiser.

combined with his survivability with W and his passive he just gains tons of stuff for just having this x2 he also builds bloodthirster that gives his a shield ontop of his passive shield.

so basically yasuo gets 3 shields(w,passive,bloodthirster) and he gets adc damage with 2 items AND, he gets to build bruiser items like item 3078 item 3022 item 3053 item 3812 item 3156

Best of all worlds, jack of all trades.

Spicy RiceMar 14, 20195 votes

What even is this argument? Why should x champ get a passive that others don't have?

Anyways, it is considered fair, due to him

Having reduced crit damage, meaning full build crit adcs (melee and ranged) out dps him late
Basically being forced to buy crit to make one of his abilities do anything meaning full (The 50% bonus armor pen is a huge reason why he can win fights against fighters and tanks).

Also, you keep saying that he "gets" to buy bruiser items like it's some great benefit. It's more like he HAS to buy such items due to being as fragile as a Faberge Egg in a Tornado. I wish I could invest all my gold into more damage, but I can't if I want to do anything against competent opponents.

JuiceBoxPMar 14, 20198 votes

But he isn't fragile, that's the thing... he has tons of means of defense.

Sure, you can say he's fragile when you just statcheck him, but he has mobility, his passive shield and his w which gives him tons of survivability at the end of the day.

Vah MedohMar 15, 20194 votes

Meanwhile it doesn't reaches the Kassadin's 100% banrate he had, as one of the "iconic" characters of Riot, they won't do anything.

RagnaveilMar 14, 20193 votes

If you looked at the right source, and read the reddit post Jatt put out not too long ago, you'd understand why. His global winrate throughout 9.5 right now, according to lolalytics, is 49%. That isn't high enough even with his banrate at 50+ to warrant a nerf according to their balancing standards that have been in effect since the last 3 patches. He's close to being nerf worthy, but he needs like another 2% for his global average winrate for that to work out.

TerozuMar 14, 20192 votes

I don't want him nerfed.

I want him to not be a pain in the ass to lane against.

He is not banned for being strong. He is banned because he is a pain in the fucking ass, and noone wants to deal with him.

RagnaveilMar 14, 20192 votes

Same can be said of pretty much every champion. I don't permaban Yas. I permaban Fiora because I hate dealing with her period. People hate playing against Sylas, Syndra, Anivia. At least almost every champ could have a reason for why someone would ban them regardless if they were good or not. Just so happens Yas has this stigma of being either trash or 1v5 that it practically makes balancing him a minefield. One small change that would possibly help him when he's in the gutter immediately garners hate the moment it shows up on the PBE.

TerozuMar 14, 20193 votes

Yeah, a lot of people hate a lot champs.

But Yasuo consistently hits above 50% banrate even when he is statistically weak.

The issue with Yasuo is that playing against him feels more like a chore than anything else. And what also makes him unique is that, this is consistent across most of the world. While Fiora, and Riven, hell I hate fighting Draven, but he has far more counter play than Yasuo, champions can all be annoying, but Yasuo is very much agreed upon as being annoying and unhealthy, which is why he maintains a high banrate when he's in a weak state.

This kind of banrate is usually seen as requiring immediate nerfs, but with Yasuo it's something else entirely. People do not want to deal with him in their games. Period.

RagnaveilMar 14, 20192 votes

Again, I can say that of Fiora even though shes not strong and rarely banned. The stigma around Yasuo is why his banrate is high regardless of his strength. You dont want to face a enemy Yasuo because he could be a god at him, but at the same time you dont want any of your teammates playing him because they might feed. The true issue is the stigma. He's probably gonna remain like this until he gets reworked or nerfed into the ground to un-viable play status because the stigma lives and breathes with his kit. And issue is Riot has a pipeline of stuff they need to do, meaning finding enough resources to maybe throw out a mini rework would take a long time.

TerozuMar 14, 20195 votes

You cannot say that Fiora consistently has a >50% banrate when she's weak. When Fiora is weak most people stop touching her.

It's not the stigma of facing a Yasuo because of the coinflip on whether they know the champ, that's common ground for every champ. Yasuo is banned because he has an objectively aggravating kit and beats the majority of champs in lane to the point where you're always on the defensive.

ShahamutMar 14, 20192 votes

^^^^^ I'm still waiting for Skarner revert/re-rework... the pipe is long...

Ahri BakaMar 14, 20192 votes

I really don't mind one champion being the cancer of League of Legends something like that has to be in every game , for the memes at least the game would be in a healthy state if only one champion was that the thing is Starting from season 8 the game many a lot of cancer champions , not only Yasuo

TerozuMar 14, 20195 votes

Teemo is leagues meme cancer, Yas is just annoying.